To Boost Control or Not To Boost Control
03 January 2010, 10:08 PM
#3
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I take it your cars still running 340 bhp as tour tag 
I have a Spec D running 333 bhp so very similar and I certainly do not need any sort of boost control runs great 
with out. (2006 STI)
I have a Spec D running 333 bhp so very similar and I certainly do not need any sort of boost control runs great with out. (2006 STI)
03 January 2010, 10:11 PM
#4
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Asking the question again in a way that makes sense would be a good idea.
Are you asking us whether you will gain something from replacing a standard two port Subaru boost control solenoid with an aftermarket item?
Are you asking us whether you can get away without any boost control at all? (The answer to this one is no, btw)
Tell us what the question it is and it'll be easier to give you a relevant answer.
Are you asking us whether you will gain something from replacing a standard two port Subaru boost control solenoid with an aftermarket item?
Are you asking us whether you can get away without any boost control at all? (The answer to this one is no, btw)
Tell us what the question it is and it'll be easier to give you a relevant answer.
03 January 2010, 10:22 PM
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Asking the question again in a way that makes sense would be a good idea.
Are you asking us whether you will gain something from replacing a standard two port Subaru boost control solenoid with an aftermarket item?
Are you asking us whether you can get away without any boost control at all? (The answer to this one is no, btw)
Tell us what the question it is and it'll be easier to give you a relevant answer.
Are you asking us whether you will gain something from replacing a standard two port Subaru boost control solenoid with an aftermarket item?
Are you asking us whether you can get away without any boost control at all? (The answer to this one is no, btw)
Tell us what the question it is and it'll be easier to give you a relevant answer.
my question is, to gain more power do i get a boost controller or is it best to leave be.
best wishes,
Mark
03 January 2010, 11:34 PM
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If so, you would be risking an expensive problem to interfere with the ECU's control of boost, so if by "boost controller" you mean an aftermarket device that takes boost control away from the ECU, then no, avoid. As you have a mappable ECU, piggyback devices are undesirable.
If you are asking us whether changing the boost solenoid for something else and then having the map tweaked to suit might liberate a bit more power, again the answer is largely dependent on whether you are currently running the OE two port solenoid or not.
If you are, then you might find that switching to a three port and adjusting the boost dynamics will give a bit more spool and a bit more top-end boost retention. However, the differences will be slight rather than mind-blowing, and the most noticeable difference would be in throttle response and low-end rather than outright bhp.
If you are already on a three port, no, you won't get any more via going to a different sort of three port.
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04 January 2010, 01:14 AM
#9
A 3-port EBCS (electronic boost control solenoid, don't mistake this with a manual/electronic boost controller) is a great idea and will give your ECU better control over your boost but you will have to get a remap because once you fit this you will more than likely experience some overboost.
Newage Denso ECU's have very good 3D boost and wastegate control maps. You don't need an aftermarket boost controller.
Newage Denso ECU's have very good 3D boost and wastegate control maps. You don't need an aftermarket boost controller.
04 January 2010, 08:29 AM
#11
I know I probably make a rod for my own back but for all the people I map I suggest an upgrade route for them should they ever get too used to the current performance. ie things that could be done and things that should be avoided.
If you are meaning a separate boost controller there isnt really a yes/no answer but let me go through the choices I would give you ...
If you are running the 340bhp on an STi I would assume that you are running a std turbo - running an external boost controller will not enable you to run more boost. If you could, your mapper would have mapped it in there. So, it will be an expensive little gismo that would have one benefit and quite a few disadvantages.
The one advantage as I see if (assume here that you go for an AVCR) is that it will give you 3 different boost settings. The highest boost setting will be that which has already been mapped with the ecu controlling it and a lower level (and one running wastegate duty only). This can be quite nice if you fancy an easy run but at 340bhp it shouldnt be that difficult to drive anyway.
The biggest disadvantage is that because the ecu will no longer be controlling the boost levels it no longer has the ability to protect the engine in case of issues and limit the boost by putting into limp mode. This could end in tears.
Aside from the cost of the controller, the install and the map tweak needed for it, I sincerely believe it will be a waste of time and money. If your map has headroom for more boost (if that means more power - it doesnt always) then just get it mapped again.
If you are meaning a 3 port boost control solenoid - Splitpin has already outlined the benefits of those.
Either way, speak to your mapper to get advice on what to do next for some extra performance - there is always something that can be done. I am sure they wont mind as ultimately they are interested in getting the best from your car too and it is far better from my point of view to map a car where mods have been made that will improve things rather than work around poor buying decisions bought on the strength of scoobynet myth.
Last edited by dynamix; 04 January 2010 at 08:30 AM.
04 January 2010, 10:41 AM
#13
dbay - I didn't need to fit it, as I already have a 3-port. I only really needed the 3bar MAP sensor that came with it, so as to up my boost beyond 1.1bar. So the BCS is now surplus to requirements...
jimes - I do (see above). But it's in use on my car, and I'll be keeping it (unless I eventually run over 2bar... NOOOT!!! lol)
jimes - I do (see above). But it's in use on my car, and I'll be keeping it (unless I eventually run over 2bar... NOOOT!!! lol)
04 January 2010, 07:12 PM
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In order to answer that question in a manner that is concise and relevant to you, we need a darn sight more info than you've given us. If we are to assume that the 340 in your username is a reference to the power output of your car, that already implies it has had a custom remap.
If so, you would be risking an expensive problem to interfere with the ECU's control of boost, so if by "boost controller" you mean an aftermarket device that takes boost control away from the ECU, then no, avoid. As you have a mappable ECU, piggyback devices are undesirable.
If you are asking us whether changing the boost solenoid for something else and then having the map tweaked to suit might liberate a bit more power, again the answer is largely dependent on whether you are currently running the OE two port solenoid or not.
If you are, then you might find that switching to a three port and adjusting the boost dynamics will give a bit more spool and a bit more top-end boost retention. However, the differences will be slight rather than mind-blowing, and the most noticeable difference would be in throttle response and low-end rather than outright bhp.
If you are already on a three port, no, you won't get any more via going to a different sort of three port.
If so, you would be risking an expensive problem to interfere with the ECU's control of boost, so if by "boost controller" you mean an aftermarket device that takes boost control away from the ECU, then no, avoid. As you have a mappable ECU, piggyback devices are undesirable.
If you are asking us whether changing the boost solenoid for something else and then having the map tweaked to suit might liberate a bit more power, again the answer is largely dependent on whether you are currently running the OE two port solenoid or not.
If you are, then you might find that switching to a three port and adjusting the boost dynamics will give a bit more spool and a bit more top-end boost retention. However, the differences will be slight rather than mind-blowing, and the most noticeable difference would be in throttle response and low-end rather than outright bhp.
If you are already on a three port, no, you won't get any more via going to a different sort of three port.
best wishes,
Mark
04 January 2010, 07:17 PM
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What does your mapper say ?
I know I probably make a rod for my own back but for all the people I map I suggest an upgrade route for them should they ever get too used to the current performance. ie things that could be done and things that should be avoided.
If you are meaning a separate boost controller there isnt really a yes/no answer but let me go through the choices I would give you ...
If you are running the 340bhp on an STi I would assume that you are running a std turbo - running an external boost controller will not enable you to run more boost. If you could, your mapper would have mapped it in there. So, it will be an expensive little gismo that would have one benefit and quite a few disadvantages.
The one advantage as I see if (assume here that you go for an AVCR) is that it will give you 3 different boost settings. The highest boost setting will be that which has already been mapped with the ecu controlling it and a lower level (and one running wastegate duty only). This can be quite nice if you fancy an easy run but at 340bhp it shouldnt be that difficult to drive anyway.
The biggest disadvantage is that because the ecu will no longer be controlling the boost levels it no longer has the ability to protect the engine in case of issues and limit the boost by putting into limp mode. This could end in tears.
Aside from the cost of the controller, the install and the map tweak needed for it, I sincerely believe it will be a waste of time and money. If your map has headroom for more boost (if that means more power - it doesnt always) then just get it mapped again.
If you are meaning a 3 port boost control solenoid - Splitpin has already outlined the benefits of those.
Either way, speak to your mapper to get advice on what to do next for some extra performance - there is always something that can be done. I am sure they wont mind as ultimately they are interested in getting the best from your car too and it is far better from my point of view to map a car where mods have been made that will improve things rather than work around poor buying decisions bought on the strength of scoobynet myth.
I know I probably make a rod for my own back but for all the people I map I suggest an upgrade route for them should they ever get too used to the current performance. ie things that could be done and things that should be avoided.
If you are meaning a separate boost controller there isnt really a yes/no answer but let me go through the choices I would give you ...
If you are running the 340bhp on an STi I would assume that you are running a std turbo - running an external boost controller will not enable you to run more boost. If you could, your mapper would have mapped it in there. So, it will be an expensive little gismo that would have one benefit and quite a few disadvantages.
The one advantage as I see if (assume here that you go for an AVCR) is that it will give you 3 different boost settings. The highest boost setting will be that which has already been mapped with the ecu controlling it and a lower level (and one running wastegate duty only). This can be quite nice if you fancy an easy run but at 340bhp it shouldnt be that difficult to drive anyway.
The biggest disadvantage is that because the ecu will no longer be controlling the boost levels it no longer has the ability to protect the engine in case of issues and limit the boost by putting into limp mode. This could end in tears.
Aside from the cost of the controller, the install and the map tweak needed for it, I sincerely believe it will be a waste of time and money. If your map has headroom for more boost (if that means more power - it doesnt always) then just get it mapped again.
If you are meaning a 3 port boost control solenoid - Splitpin has already outlined the benefits of those.
Either way, speak to your mapper to get advice on what to do next for some extra performance - there is always something that can be done. I am sure they wont mind as ultimately they are interested in getting the best from your car too and it is far better from my point of view to map a car where mods have been made that will improve things rather than work around poor buying decisions bought on the strength of scoobynet myth.
thanks for info, i bought the car with this performance, when i got it i took it to western performace and they gave me the figures of the rolling road run. do i check the ecu to see if its mappable, i just assumed it was a prodrive chip.
regards,
Mark
04 January 2010, 07:35 PM
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Given the more specific information you've given, I'd now be wondering whether your car has a PPP, or whether it has had a further aftermarket tune. Could just be it's a PPP with a very slightly generous rolling road.
04 January 2010, 08:04 PM
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No sweat. Remember, the quality of the information you get out is always directly related to the quality of information going in.
The ECU is remappable, there is no question about that. The PPP on your model year is an EcuTeK-type remap of the standard ECU, not a replacement or piggyback chip.
Given the more specific information you've given, I'd now be wondering whether your car has a PPP, or whether it has had a further aftermarket tune. Could just be it's a PPP with a very slightly generous rolling road.
The ECU is remappable, there is no question about that. The PPP on your model year is an EcuTeK-type remap of the standard ECU, not a replacement or piggyback chip.
Given the more specific information you've given, I'd now be wondering whether your car has a PPP, or whether it has had a further aftermarket tune. Could just be it's a PPP with a very slightly generous rolling road.
what the best way forward now do you think any check i can do.
thanks again splitpin.
04 January 2010, 08:06 PM
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05 January 2010, 11:39 PM
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i use the HKS evc 6, high 1:5, for fun time, low 1:1 for quick about, switch off boost controller u get 0:5 and thats handy for being doodling around town, thats why i fitted it in the 1st place, i use the car as my daily driver, full boost all the time, i wud be bankrupt wi the fuel costs
06 January 2010, 10:56 AM
#24
You can alter the boost cut limit on a newage via the ECU but you are still limited in the end by the physical limit of the MAP sensor.
Saying that std newage turbo (WRX or STi) is unlikely to hit the std MAP sensor limit unless you really wind it up and turn it into a flame thrower. That will more than likely kill the turbo and your engine.
Saying that std newage turbo (WRX or STi) is unlikely to hit the std MAP sensor limit unless you really wind it up and turn it into a flame thrower. That will more than likely kill the turbo and your engine.
06 January 2010, 02:57 PM
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Thats an interesting thought, my wife doesnt like driving my car because its to fast of the mark for her (dont know why she frightens me to death in her car 
), is there an easy way to reduce boost for everyday driving and back to norman when wanted without all the techno HKS etc.
), is there an easy way to reduce boost for everyday driving and back to norman when wanted without all the techno HKS etc.
06 January 2010, 08:54 PM
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Thats an interesting thought, my wife doesnt like driving my car because its to fast of the mark for her (dont know why she frightens me to death in her car ), is there an easy way to reduce boost for everyday driving and back to norman when wanted without all the techno HKS etc.
), is there an easy way to reduce boost for everyday driving and back to norman when wanted without all the techno HKS etc.
06 January 2010, 09:14 PM
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06 January 2010, 09:29 PM
#30
What does a four port Boost Control Solenoid offer over a 3 port one?
Only reason I ask is that I have a Turbo smart four port solenoid that I was planning on using in conjunction with a Solaris/Syvecs.
Only reason I ask is that I have a Turbo smart four port solenoid that I was planning on using in conjunction with a Solaris/Syvecs.
Last edited by dazdavies; 06 January 2010 at 10:29 PM. Reason: I meant boost solenoid not ecu