Scooby Classic

iTrader: (1)

Hello all,

I'm the proud owner of an MY00 Turbo 2000. She's been looked after and I'm only the third owner. I've really enjoyed ownership but now I'm looking for a little more action. My plan was to cat back exhaust, ecutek remap, panel filter and look for a responsive, quick every day driver with the occasional trackday thrown in. The cost of these mods look to be £1100 to £1300. Is this the most cost effective way to achieve maximum bang for my buck?

Or.. should I save a little, sell my pride and joy and find an STI . I guess after selling the Turbo 2000, and the mod money plus a little extra I would have about £5000 for an sti. Does this seem like the better idea rather than modding the more basic car.

Or.. are there advantages in trying to get my hands on a newer wrx with less mileage on the clock and save for mods in the future?

(my mate suggested an Evo VI but I think that the running costs are a bit prohibitive and I'm scoob through and through, any thoughts?)

I've read through the forums looking for a solution but I would really appreciate the advice of people who have been owning and running these cars for years.

Thanks
John

scoobyboy1

iTrader: (16)

Done the same thing mate, Spent loads of money modding Turbo 2000's when I was younger, and to be honest when I first bought my STi version 6 it felt quicker in standard form and overall a much better car then any modded UK car I had owned, and with some simple bolt on mods, the STi is a very quick car and you would not regret it.

I used to get p1ssedd off when I wrote on scoobynet that I wanted to make my turbo 2000 faster and got replys of "just get a STi" truth is they was right!!

bigsinky

yay another one sees the light. classic shape cars are notoriously expensive to achieve power in. new age STi is a much better base to start modding from. it's been proven time and time again. though it galls me to say it the new age car is a much better car than the classic as it should be. newer technology and all that.

Scooby Classic

iTrader: (1)

Damn it, love the classic shape. To be fair it is bang for buck over looks that got me interested in the first place. So if I'm now convinced on the newage, what year and model do you recommend? JDM or UK? STi, type R year etc

It seems to be a bit of a minefield in terms of special variants (although wiki has been my friend). If I'm after performance results and not bothered about owning a unique or rare scoob then which way should I go?

Thanks for the advice so far.

bigsinky

sorry chap you aint going to get much in the way of a newage STi for £5k. in fact lets be honest here you wont get anything but a real dog. Bugeye Sti seem to start around 6.5k for 2002 model with between 70 and 100k miles on them.

inertiauk

The problem is findign a good clean genuine STi for sale, so many idiots in WRX's and 2000's put STi in their listings on trader and ebay.

And a lot of imports arent STi's at all even though they managed to get STi on the uk V5 form and painted the manifold red.

I found my UK Turbo whilst trying to find an STi classic. I bought it for now but I will probably buy an STi in future.

A good one will take a while to hunt down I think, I'm guessing it will be worth it though.

Scooby Classic

iTrader: (1)

As I found out scouring ebay etc last night. If i'm realistic about my money and options an older STi looks like the choice, but as was said above, so many of the listings aren't STi's. Well careful hunting I guess, the longer I search the more cash I've got to throw at it I suppose.

Avoiding the blob eye is there any year/model to get excited about? Or is newer/less mileage better?

mr hat

iTrader: (2)

iv done the whole sell modded uk turbo for a version 3 sti. yes the sti was quicker, but nnot by much, and i spent a load of money on the sti as well. because you will want to mod the sti as well, so its a false economy. if your own car has been well looked after just keep it and spend money on a full decat including downpipe, get it remapped, stick some whiteline goodies on it, a quickshift, and enjoy. you could buy an sti and buy a dog and end up throwing money at it, at least you know your car has been well looked after. i ended up buying another uk turbo 2000, in mint condition with low miles because i love them, fancied a v3 or 4 sti type ra but they are like hens teeth and trying to find a really nice one is even harder than finding a mint unabused standard uk turbo, trust me i know i looked for nearly a year.

bigsinky

the newer blobeye or hawkeyes are really nice cars. use autotrader to get an idea of the prices. the **** has really dropped out of the price. 2 year old car to be had for £10 - £12K. Double your budget but vastly superior car than the classic. much cheaper to get good power out of as you have a good strong engine and 6 speed gearbox to start with. a few choice mods acn see you close to 400hp without much of an outlay. believe me when i say a "genuine" 400hp car is a scary vehicle on the road.

so, my opinion, save like mad for another while and put you money into a new age car with less miles. choose carefully and check provenance on car. avoid gaybay like the plague, too many tyre kickers and chavved up machines. i would rather go for a private sale in autotrader or a dealer where they can stand over the description of the car. at the end of the day you pays your money and you dips yer bread.

dont get excited about the first car you see and dont rush into anything. if it seems like a really good deal then it probably isnt. take your time, ask questions on here, travel around and look at few nice examples. go to a dealer and get a drive in some cars see how they feel and how they drive. work out your finances, subarus are not cheap cars to run. expect 25 odd miles per gallon, and that's super your putting in the tank. servicing and oil changes, tyres as well are not cheap. if you decide to mod the car that can be expensive as well. The buying of the car is the easy bit. living with the car and the expense of running it is the bitch.

bigsinky

you also need to remember the classic STi s (V1 - V6) will be jap models. these extract a higher premium for insurance and as i have said are more expensive to make power with than the newer UK spec STis. the new age STi is the better base car to start with.

Scooby Classic

iTrader: (1)

I'm liking the debate guys, the plan was to mod the 2000 but I was pretty sure that I wanted to stop after just doing a few bits. however the more I think about it the more unlikely that stopping becomes.


Tell me about it, buying my turbo 2000 turned out to be a walk in the park but only because I had the luck to find an honest and genuine seller. Like a fool I got excited about the first car I saw physically and once I had a drive I was hooked, like I say, very lucky to find this guy and car.
Living with it has been a joy as I steeled myself for the extra expense, I know that it's only gonna get worse with a more powerful car but take the rough with the smooth. I found the bay useful for a guide on prices, useful as a haggling tool aswell, obviously the best option is finding one from a reputable dealer/ enthusiast.

I know that the more I bide my time then the better the result but there has to be a balance between that and getting what you want eh?

A very good point on the above post about the imports, they do seem to add a huge whack to the insurance.

So plan A. Keep the 2000 and resisit any temptation to mod (unlikely), scope out a newage STi and take it from there. I seem to be able to go a year newer model wise per £500 - £1000. Is there a best year to aim at, say higher milage 2003 vs lower milage 2002?

DJ_Jon

iTrader: (7)

I would look at Bugeye STi's - for around 5.5 - 6k you will get a decent car. The bugeye is a nice car to drive & will have all the bits, like a 6 speed box & bigger brakes as standard, that your Turbo 2000 doesn't have & really need upgrading when you hae the power increased. I recently sold my 470 bhp UK 2000 MY99 & went to a Hawkeye, even though I still love the classic shap, the newage cars are hard to beat for the equipment, comfort & performance that you get out of the box.

At the end of the day its your car & your decision, but me personally, I would go newer & hapefully save some money in the long run if you decide to mod.

HTH

bigsinky

the classic will cost you far more money to modify than a new age acar, that is fact. keep the 2000, save your money, when you have enough use that along with the uk2000 to buy a new age STi. i will be hard but spend some time doing your home work. find out what you like.

Dutch Scooby lover

iTrader: (3)

You cant look past the much more involved drive of a classic,in my opinion.
Sure the Bugeye and later STI's have more power ,6speed boxes and bigger brakes, but being much heavier then a classic they do need it.
Also, the drive may be much more refined, it also is not as involved as a classic.
Because of the little rattles and things a classic has much more "feel"to it then the latter models, which may be quicker, but lack something in the "fun"department.

I would therefore (looking at what TS wants) go for a turboback exhaust, fuelpump and a remap.If you plan on much more power the bugeye and later STI is a better base to start from, but with the kind of power you get from the above mods (270 or so HP)
the gearbox is not that stressed, and a decent set of pads will be more then enough to make the standard 4 pots cope with spirited driving and the occasional trackday.

Scooby Classic

iTrader: (1)

Thank you gents, time to save I guess. I appreciate the honest opinions. Looks like its a few months of lean before some serious shopping in a few months.

Scooby Classic

iTrader: (1)

Damn it, you must have been posting as I was typing. So now keep the 2000? Have heard about the lack of "rawness" and "fun" in the newage, maybe a trip to the dealership to see if I can be convinced one way or the other. I have grooved discs and mintex pads already so maybe just mod the 2000 and stop after the turbo back/walbro/remap stage.

But will it ever stop?

Thanks for the opinions

mr hat

iTrader: (2)

no it never stops. iv been there done it and im now back there and doing it again. there is always more things you want to do to them, so many tuning parts available. btw i dont know why everyone goes on about getting a walbro fuel pump, the standard one is more than capable for running a remap'd classic at around 280bhp, ran mine like that for over a year was never a problem.

bigsinky

Mate the most simple and honest answer is, how deep are your pockets. some guys on here have spent 40, 60, 80K in their classic cars,through various engine builds and development work.

you get used to the power and handling in a car and you want to push the envelope a bit further. these guys are at the forefront of subaru innovation, they are the guinea pigs. they spend the time and the money seeing what works, what doesnt work, what makes a big difference, what makes no difference. they will have spent thousands of pounds and hundreds of hours in development and have very very special cars.

when it gets to this stage you have to ask yourself, what do i actually want the car for? drag racing, hill climbs, track work, a fast road car, everyday driver, sunday show car, whatever. each of these things will take you down a different path developmentally.

Chasing big power is a law of diminishing returns for example, i like drag racing.

standard suabru 1/4 mile with no mechanical sympathy - 14 seconds approx

Spend not alot of money to get to low 13s

to get to high 12s spend a bit more

low 12s is starting to cost money

high 11s costs even more money

low 11s don't go there unless you have a friendly bank manager

10s well you can guess the cost.

Now before people come on here and say i can do low 11s with just a panel filter, i am talking about a classic car that you can drive to a drag event, do a load of runs and drive home again. fairly robust cars, not these 1 run and its fubared cars.

you need to spend a disproportionate amount of money for what seems like very little gain. truth be told at that stage you are paying for reliability for the power you have got. any one can pump 45lb of boost through a massive turbo and have 700hp for all of 10 seconds. getting 700+ hp to run reliably is what costs an arm and a leg. I know you maybe dont wnat to spend that sort of money, but you have to put things in perspective here and ask what am i prepared to live with. if my engine calves itself, can i afford to replace it to the same spec i have before. I have been without my subaru for nearly 3 years. scrimping and saving. I am not RCM that can throw 100k at an engine. i work, have bills to pay and any spare cash i have at the end of the month goes on my car.

Remember, someone will always and i mean always, have more money than you. be content with what you have and dont go chasing pipe dreams.

Scooby Classic

iTrader: (1)

I've read both sides on here, was convinced by the probably don't need it but at £65 its peace of mind arguement. I don't know any better, just what I've read.

bigsinky

thats another thing mate take the time to get to know. a load of people on here are very knowledgeable and will give you great advice. dont be suckered in by all the bullsh1t you read on these types of forums. take everything with a pinch of salt.

people are like lemmings, a case of monkey see, monkey do. 255l per hour fuel pump, great i will get one of them for my car coz chavvy mong boy says i need one. don't fall into the trap.

find a good subaru mechanic who has a genuine passion for the car and ask him/her for advice on what to do to your car. they will provide you with the best advice and give you "more bang for your buck" dependant on how much you want to spend.

Scooby Classic

iTrader: (1)

As always mate, measure twice cut once. Think i've found a diamond as far as mechanics go, slowboyracing in London. Guy seems great and the work he has done has been well priced (only servicing so far). It's just about the budget really although I cant get my head around how ugly the headlights are on the early newages (personal taste I know)

bigsinky

yeah slowboy knows his stuff you should be ok with him. his posts are always informative without being pushy (well to me anyway)

Scooby Classic

iTrader: (1)

Hello buddy, just caught this. I think the key word here is value. Track day wannabe who still needs his everyday runaround is the level i'm aiming at. It does make a compelling case for modding the classic and being pleased with that. That said, in a few months I might be looking at a cheap newage STi which by some accounts would already do what my modded classic would do (and more) out of the box.

Money is an issue, i'm committed to my motoring but I also like doing things like going on holiday and enjoying a beer so it can't be the be all and end all for me.

I guess we can all have pipe dreams but the choice I am faced with is keep the classic and mod or no mod and save for the STi. There are arguments both ways and I'm grateful for all of the advice.

bigsinky

no probs HTH