Kwik

iTrader: (10)

Ok, my94 WRX fairly untouched.
Z4 ECU
Apexi Panel filter
Decat centre
"WrSport?" back-box.

But i'm now putting together a 2.1. These are the parts aimed for....
Wiseco 92.5mm piston's
Crower Rods
EJ257 crank
V3 STI Heads
And i'll be looking for a fairly moderate 8:1 compression ratio.
So at this point i'm starting to consider what injectors/turbo to add considering my target is 400BHP/Ib. Obviously a FMIC/induction kit is very likely as well. Also i'd have to consider MAF setup (I have no clue about green label's etc).

So my question really is what size injectors should i be considering and which Turbo?. I've read that a TD05 20G maxes out around the 400 mark?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

MartynJ

SC38 or SC40 Billet are very good on 2.1 strokers and would make your target assuming you have all the right bits.
Forget the MAF and fit an aftermarket system that ditches it in favour of a MAP sensor.
Injectors 740cc and a decent pump.
The other thing I would recommend is front entry converting the engine while it's apart.

From this



To this



You can of course use a silicone inlet pipe under the manifold, but we just happened to have a stock one to hand for this job.

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

Thanks Martin, whats the benefits of the front entry?

yabbadoo4

iTrader: (8)

you kept the small slanty ic bud? what power did that engine make with that still on?

Tidgy

Syvecs for the win

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

So i hear, but i'm not sure if its required or whether i'd go ESL through JGM.

Andy Stevens

I did 398 on V power on a 2 litre with V3/4 heads on a 20G with MAFless ESL on Zens rollers, but believe that might be the exception rather than the rule. Wish I'd added a splash of meth now to see where that took me.

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

Any idea what the rest of the set up was Andy?

Andy Stevens

Omega pistons, Arrow rods, CDB, RCMS pump, old school ESL board (the new ones are better), FMIC, 780cc injectors, ported OEM exhaust manifold, decat, big K&N air filter. I'll see if I can find the graphs but from memory was running 11.5:1 AFR, 1.5bar boost and mid to late 20s advance. I ran a six speed with it. Early 20G was a touch laggy and I'd have thought the response from the SC billet turbos would be much better, especially with a 2.1.

Was still a great laugh to drive though. Was in a shonky old wagon that was the testbed for the MAFless algorithm. I remember reeling in a DB9 that was going for it, much to the drivers chagrin. It even had a towbar.

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

Lol, Well this is what i'm after really. 400 isn't a must but i'd rather have an "if you do x,y,z you could hit the target.
Its a shame a 2.1 wouldn't be built as standard, IE using all OEM parts except those forged so i know what i'd be starting with then adding to.

Andy Stevens

I know what you mean, those targets can be a bit artificial. I'm always amazed at the det resistance of a 20% Meth mix as a cheap way to add power, we've seen 8 degrees extra advance at peak torque between that and straight SUL, which is significant. Add in the cooling benefits and a twin map system and it seems rude not to tbh.

I've heard good things about the 2.1, it doesn't seem like a big increase in capacity but it certainly affects the drive quality in a positive way. I've always stuck with 2.0 litre engines as I have a couple of spare forged ones in the garage.

Andy Stevens

Oh, forgot I had a Walboro 255 on it and the turbo was front entry like Martyn suggests above.

Tidgy

so you spend a fortune on engine parts, then scripm on what controls it all?

sounds a bit harsh when you say it that way, but no way i'd want to use the oem ecu for a full custom build engine.

Ecu is most critical thing on it, get that wrong and rest is a total waste of time.

Andy Stevens

He's not scrimping though is he Tidgy? And he's not talking about an OEM ECU. The ESL has 3 stage knock control, OEM closed loop idle, twin maps, MAF/MAFless switching, 3d boost control, full diagnostics and a host of other features. We've run 400 and 500hp cars without issue, they idle like stock, start on the first turn of the key whether hot or cold and its only evident that they are not OEM when you put your foot down.

While the Syvecs is undoubtedly a fine ECU, it takes a fair chunk of a tuning budget. There is absolutely no reason not to run a full custom engine build on an ESL ECU, I've been doing just that for years.

Don't mistake 'good value' for 'cheap'.

Tidgy

the ability to do somethign and how well it actualy does it are two totlay differen't things, cheap normaly means it missed something, yoru right this isn't always the case, but you do tend to find it works out that way in 99% of cases.

Andy Stevens

With respect, that sounds more like an opinion rather than an argument based in fact. If you want to research more thoroughly, here is a starting point:
www.enduringsolutions.com/Manual.pdf

Tidgy

im not commenting on any specific product matey, all im saying is you tend to get what you pay for

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

I've not really considered which ECU i'd use, its a long long way off. When i'm closer i'll ask the experts what i require and go from there.

Andy Stevens

Here's one that has just been done. 20G on a forged 2.5 rather than 2.1 but apparently it flies.

http://trackhound.co.uk/2012/03/18/1...ed-and-mapped/

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

Would an ESL daughter board work from a Z4?

Sprint Chief

Tidgy, hope you don't mind me asking, how much is the mappable closed loop knock control option on the Syvecs and do you know roughly how much mapping time did it take to set up just that element properly for your car?

(With apologies to OP for straying off topic a bit)

Andy Stevens

It will work with any 4 plug JECS ECU, Z4 included. The 4 plug motherboards are all interchangeable. We put the 6K (PPP/276hp) on as a base map.

Tidgy

not got syvecs on mine matey, i went autronics due to syvecs not being around at the time was about 6 months befor eit came out.

As far as mapping time etc sure pat can advise, would have though all setup time would be included in the price though.

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

Apologies if i'm reading this wrong, but do you mean you send them out with a specific map?.
I will, at some point in the distant future if all goes well, require a running in map for 1k and then obviously after that see what can be achieved. Although i'm not a big fan of using meth.

Sprint Chief

OK, thanks Tidgy

(Back on topic now!)

Andy Stevens

No, we send all 97/8 maps out with the stock map on (map 1 and 2). 92/6 all get the PPP map.

You cannot tune a car blind, so we don't swerve from the standard maps when they get sent out. Tried it with postal maps years ok, doesn't work well.

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

I thought so lol, so i'm going to need to have a map at mine once the engine goes in.

Andy Stevens

There are plenty of mobile mappers. You can run in on the base map if you disconnect the wastegate actuator arm so it won't boost, use a light throttle and don't use high engine speeds.

Kwik

iTrader: (10)

How would i prevent it running lean/rich though?

Andy Stevens

In MAF mode the fuelling table is specified in AFR and the ECU will trim as required as long as you have a working lambda sensor. There are limits to this in respect of injector size. If going MAFless straight away, you will need the attention of a mapper. I'm sure there would be a deal to be had if you wanted an initial running in map and a follow up full power map.