Impreza Classic Hid's
09 November 2011, 12:40 PM
#1
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Impreza Classic Hid's
Hi all, My classic Impreza is fitted with crystal headlights, I am wondering if fitting an aftermarket Hid kit would be ok on these? I have heard many things about these kits saying they are illegal as they can cause incorrect beam pattern so i thought i would ask for some helpful advice on here. Thanks in advance, Nick.
09 November 2011, 12:55 PM
#2
LOL, try a few searches. You will get loads of info, which I don't intend re-typing here, sorry.
However, to condense it: you cannot polish a turd. Impreza lights are poor, fitting higher wattage, HID etc, bulbs WILL give you more light, but the same PERCENTAGE will be wasted, so causing scatter. Traders will tell you different, but they are SELLING stuff. I'm not, so tell you how it is
Add to that, HID's will give a decent DIP beam pattern, (they HAVE to, it will be checked, come MoT), but they do it at the expense of main beam, which is worse than normal
Again, a search will reveal why
Uprated bulbs are a better bet
Or go HID projector, costs about £220, but WELL worth it, see my thread in Archives, top one.
However, to condense it: you cannot polish a turd. Impreza lights are poor, fitting higher wattage, HID etc, bulbs WILL give you more light, but the same PERCENTAGE will be wasted, so causing scatter. Traders will tell you different, but they are SELLING stuff. I'm not, so tell you how it is
Add to that, HID's will give a decent DIP beam pattern, (they HAVE to, it will be checked, come MoT), but they do it at the expense of main beam, which is worse than normal
Again, a search will reveal whyUprated bulbs are a better bet
Or go HID projector, costs about £220, but WELL worth it, see my thread in Archives, top one.
09 November 2011, 02:57 PM
#5
Osram Nightbreakers, Philips Vision Plus 100% uprated, Halfords 10%% uprated if on BOGOF.
Avoid higher wattage bulbs, cheap copies, so called "Xenon" bulbs, (which aren't), anything with a VERY blue tint, and above all, the expensive PIAA ones
When changing bulbs:
DO ensure they are seated properly: even 1mm out will put the beam all over the place.
DO set them up after fitting, they MIGHT need tweaking
DO NOT touch glass surface of bulb.
And above all, on an Impreza, SQUEEZE the two sides of the rubber bulbholder cover, then pull to release the connector, DON'T JUST PULL IT
Avoid higher wattage bulbs, cheap copies, so called "Xenon" bulbs, (which aren't
), anything with a VERY blue tint, and above all, the expensive PIAA onesWhen changing bulbs:
DO ensure they are seated properly: even 1mm out will put the beam all over the place.
DO set them up after fitting, they MIGHT need tweaking
DO NOT touch glass surface of bulb.
And above all, on an Impreza, SQUEEZE the two sides of the rubber bulbholder cover, then pull to release the connector, DON'T JUST PULL IT
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09 November 2011, 06:22 PM
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As of 1st Jan 2012, ALL non oem HID`s without E marking, and also without self levellers are going to be an instant MOT fail, and plod will be major on these and will know if you have HID`s and its not OEM they will take your car.
Your better off with some 120/80watt H4`s as they are bulbs and will not have the issues that people with HID`s will.
Your better off with some 120/80watt H4`s as they are bulbs and will not have the issues that people with HID`s will.
Last edited by Jimbob; 09 November 2011 at 06:30 PM.
09 November 2011, 09:54 PM
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In Belgium if you get pulled and your car is modified, the police will take your car there and then, and take it to a workshop of their choice and put everything back to standard and then give you a bill for the lot, and if you don`t pay you`ll be sent to court to reclaim the money and get a record.
The whole reason these regs are coming in is to make the same rules throughout the EU, as to be fair we`ve been pretty lax. And in the EU if your car is defective and have not TUV approved mods (in some its any mods), they can seize your car.
And to be fair HID`s are illegal now in reflector lamps, as they are supposed to be Halogen bulbs, and most are crap and blind you and light the hedges more than the road.
My mate was pulled over last night and given MAJOR crap about a non OEM exhaust on a Vauxhall. It recently passed a normal MOT, so they are already starting to get compliant with these new laws so I`d watch out.
09 November 2011, 10:04 PM
#13
i had them and plenty ppl have them they give u a good low beam but high beam not great. depends on which kit u get cheaper ones can be worse. as for mots just remove n put in normal bulbs or find a friendly mot'r its what most of us do /done in the past with regards to a cat 
10 November 2011, 02:38 PM
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I have been to halfords today and bought some of their extreme brilliance bulbs, I will let you know what i think of them when i have had a drive in the dark, Thanks for all the replies.
11 November 2011, 01:41 AM
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As of 1st Jan 2012, ALL non oem HID`s without E marking, and also without self levellers are going to be an instant MOT fail, and plod will be major on these and will know if you have HID`s and its not OEM they will take your car.
Your better off with some 120/80watt H4`s as they are bulbs and will not have the issues that people with HID`s will.
Your better off with some 120/80watt H4`s as they are bulbs and will not have the issues that people with HID`s will.
http://mottesters.co.uk/vosa_info_links.htm
Or here...
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/publicati...s.htm#P45_1269
There has been a lot of discussion about vehicle approval and testing over the past 12-18 months but what's currently proposed would seem far short of what was feared 3-4 months ago.
J.
11 November 2011, 03:10 AM
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Not a lot about it from here...
http://mottesters.co.uk/vosa_info_links.htm
Or here...
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/publicati...s.htm#P45_1269
There has been a lot of discussion about vehicle approval and testing over the past 12-18 months but what's currently proposed would seem far short of what was feared 3-4 months ago.
J.
http://mottesters.co.uk/vosa_info_links.htm
Or here...
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/publicati...s.htm#P45_1269
There has been a lot of discussion about vehicle approval and testing over the past 12-18 months but what's currently proposed would seem far short of what was feared 3-4 months ago.
J.
This is the manual for the 2012 tests.
New parts have a line next to them, and this is what the new MOT is.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repositor...n%20Manual.pdf
Read from 1.7 onwards.
I`ve NEVER seen a set of retrofit HID`s that will pass these tests, and I`ve had some in my cars including in a projector lamp.
Also check fig 7.1.
Having a decat is now illegal, irrespective of if it can pass without. The Import pre July 1995 is still ok though, as there is no like for like car they can compare against as wasn`t a specific law to have a cat on these import cars till after July 1995.
So if you have HID`s and no headlamp levelling and/or no headlamp washers your car is a fail. Also even if you have these and they are in a Halogen headlamp they will fail the new beam pattern setups.
Last edited by Jimbob; 11 November 2011 at 03:11 AM.
11 November 2011, 10:33 AM
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I understand that but read this.
This is the manual for the 2012 tests.
New parts have a line next to them, and this is what the new MOT is.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repositor...n%20Manual.pdf
Read from 1.7 onwards.
I`ve NEVER seen a set of retrofit HID`s that will pass these tests, and I`ve had some in my cars including in a projector lamp.
Also check fig 7.1.
Having a decat is now illegal, irrespective of if it can pass without. The Import pre July 1995 is still ok though, as there is no like for like car they can compare against as wasn`t a specific law to have a cat on these import cars till after July 1995.
So if you have HID`s and no headlamp levelling and/or no headlamp washers your car is a fail. Also even if you have these and they are in a Halogen headlamp they will fail the new beam pattern setups.
This is the manual for the 2012 tests.
New parts have a line next to them, and this is what the new MOT is.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repositor...n%20Manual.pdf
Read from 1.7 onwards.
I`ve NEVER seen a set of retrofit HID`s that will pass these tests, and I`ve had some in my cars including in a projector lamp.
Also check fig 7.1.
Having a decat is now illegal, irrespective of if it can pass without. The Import pre July 1995 is still ok though, as there is no like for like car they can compare against as wasn`t a specific law to have a cat on these import cars till after July 1995.
So if you have HID`s and no headlamp levelling and/or no headlamp washers your car is a fail. Also even if you have these and they are in a Halogen headlamp they will fail the new beam pattern setups.
I says where levellers and washers are fitted they must work. Doesn't state that they have to be fitted though.
Must confess to understanding what the beam pattern things were but forgot to read the testing of that bit...
.... Which is the more worrying bit... J.
11 November 2011, 12:06 PM
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So with EU law saying for HIDs you MUST have levellers AND washers, if you have HIDs and not the others its a fail. As the tester is to look at the wishbones for the levelling sensors to detect car movement. If they aren`t there then they should fail it, as its not the case now if its not there they can`t test it, take Cats as an example if the change, as it specifically states no cat where one was fitted as standard is a fail, where as before as long as it would pass without you were ok. I know the police will be hot on these once the changes are in force, as its easy to check if a car has HIDs and if you try and blag it, they will say you`ve no washers so its a fail. And whack a mirror underneath and whoops youve no cat fail, unroadworthy car we`re taking it.
But as they say time will tell. Perhaps I`m being a little alarmist, but with greater integration with Europe it can only get more lke Europe and that doesn`t look good for our modified cars.
Last edited by Jimbob; 11 November 2011 at 12:16 PM.
11 November 2011, 05:26 PM
#21
Yeah it says may be fitted.
Reason for rejection; A headlamp levelling or cleaning device inoperative or otherwise obviously defective.
A vehicle can only fail if its fitted and doesn't work. Not being fitted at all is not a reason for rejection
Reason for rejection; A headlamp levelling or cleaning device inoperative or otherwise obviously defective.
A vehicle can only fail if its fitted and doesn't work. Not being fitted at all is not a reason for rejection
Last edited by BLU; 11 November 2011 at 05:28 PM.
11 November 2011, 05:36 PM
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All they have to do is now enforce the current law, which now with the extra tests will show up. Its a technical loophole that allows us to use these HIDs, but now the loophole is closing and wont be long until the full integration is complete and we are the same as Europe. With Every modification/ecu map needing Type Approval like German y do with TUV. Just glad were not Spain, where EVERYTHING is OEM.
Originally Posted by DFT
Aftermarket HID headlamps
In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.
The following is the legal rationale:
The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.
However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).
For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.
Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:
1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:
1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.
Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.
If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:
Transport Technology and Standards 6
Department for Transport
Zone 2/04
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street Telephone: 020 7944 2078
London Fax: 020 7944 2196
SW1P 4DR Email: TTS.enquiries@dft.gsi.gov.uk
In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.
The following is the legal rationale:
The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.
However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).
For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.
Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:
1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:
1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.
Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.
If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:
Transport Technology and Standards 6
Department for Transport
Zone 2/04
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street Telephone: 020 7944 2078
London Fax: 020 7944 2196
SW1P 4DR Email: TTS.enquiries@dft.gsi.gov.uk
12 November 2011, 07:44 PM
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and being JDM may well be a retrofit.But time will tell, I hope we don`t get a lot of "My car failed cos of HID`s!!" threads.
Who knows if the Eurozone pulls the EU apart we may not have to worry about European Directives again!!
Last edited by Jimbob; 12 November 2011 at 07:45 PM.
13 November 2011, 12:07 PM
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HID kit, fitted uprated bulbs to my Classic and they are still utterly ****! And a waste of Money imho.
If it wasnt for the Gas Discharge spots it wouldnt be worth driving it at night.
Im led to believe that putting high wattage bulbs in a classic is a big no no too and can result in melted plastics inside the light unit ?
If it wasnt for the Gas Discharge spots it wouldnt be worth driving it at night.
Im led to believe that putting high wattage bulbs in a classic is a big no no too and can result in melted plastics inside the light unit ?
14 November 2011, 06:12 PM
#30
HID kit, fitted uprated bulbs to my Classic and they are still utterly ****! And a waste of Money imho.
If it wasnt for the Gas Discharge spots it wouldnt be worth driving it at night.
Im led to believe that putting high wattage bulbs in a classic is a big no no too and can result in melted plastics inside the light unit ?
If it wasnt for the Gas Discharge spots it wouldnt be worth driving it at night.
Im led to believe that putting high wattage bulbs in a classic is a big no no too and can result in melted plastics inside the light unit ?
Subaru classic lights are cr@p so fitting higher wattage/uprated bulbs, or HIDs will simply increase the light output, yes, but the same PERCENTAGE of light will still be scattered, (actually MORE with HIDs), and that results in increased glare.
As for higher WATTAGE bulbs causing problems, I've seen melted CONNECTORS, and also melted wiring, neither of which is common.
If it were me and you don't want the work/cost of a proper HID projector, fit UPRATED bulbs.
This means no worries on those two scores and probably better FOCUS which is really important.