The European Union ......
#3
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What is your position based on?
The economic one - i.e. we would be better/richer economically being "out"
If so, is that everyone (richer/better off) or just low paid workers or highly paid workers or "everyone"
Or is it democracy - I.e lack of democratic representation/control over things that affect you/me/us
And if so what are those "things" and who do they effect (negatively?) you / me - the collective "US"
What's the main gripe?
The economic one - i.e. we would be better/richer economically being "out"
If so, is that everyone (richer/better off) or just low paid workers or highly paid workers or "everyone"
Or is it democracy - I.e lack of democratic representation/control over things that affect you/me/us
And if so what are those "things" and who do they effect (negatively?) you / me - the collective "US"
What's the main gripe?
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 22 May 2015 at 11:06 PM.
#4
Pointless question now.
The question will be relevant when the referendum occurs, and the terms under which we belong have been re-negotiated.
Contrary to the predictable dismissals regarding the re-negotiation, there is a very good chance of a positive outcome as many of the points for negotiation benefit other members also.
At that point I vote to stay in.
The question will be relevant when the referendum occurs, and the terms under which we belong have been re-negotiated.
Contrary to the predictable dismissals regarding the re-negotiation, there is a very good chance of a positive outcome as many of the points for negotiation benefit other members also.
At that point I vote to stay in.
#6
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Personnelly I would say out because we pay a lot of money in and don't seem to get enough out of it. However I don't know what sort of impact it would have on everyone
#7
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If you think you will get a referendum then you need to read up on article 50 of the Lisbon treaty aswell as read up on "Qualified Majority Voting". There is a reason Cameron chose late in 2017 for the referendum.
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#8
The leadership of the current government want the UK to stay in, and probably the majority of the party.
The Labour party, Liberals and SNP also want in.
Therefore negative propaganda will on the whole probably be UKIP led.
On the whole the public likely also want to stay in, but a significant number (me included) have issues with its influence currently.
Therefore success with some, but not all, of the concessions proposed will probably secure a 'stay in' vote.
There is a risk to a referendum, but it became an inevitability.
Anyhow, put your money where your mouth is if you are so confident.
I'll wager you £500 that the referendum occurs.
#9
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What "something" is that
Presumably it is the inward investment and access to a very large free trade area
#10
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But you are assuming that we wouldn't otherwise get the inward investment or get to trade freely with others. Is that a true assumption?
#11
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I have already stated in another thread that a Brexit would not see an economic collapse - the world would still turn
investment / trade would continue
however, there must be a reason why the likes of the CBI are lobbying to stay in
and organisations like Deutsche Bank are actively exploring their options if we leave
why would Nissan/Ford want to suffer a 17% export tariff to send its cars across the channel
the economic case for leaving is far from a slam dunk, and there would be winners and losers, as with everything
i am just asking, amongst other things who the winners and losers are
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 23 May 2015 at 04:39 PM.
#12
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Leaving aside the economic and legislative pros and cons for the moment, for me, a very big pro is one of the cornerstones of the EC: the free movement within the EC of individuals from member states. Nowadays, we are free to work, socialise and mix and mingle, intermarry, and generally get along just fine, as recently as 70 years ago we were slaughtering each other on an industrial scale.
#13
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Leaving aside the economic and legislative pros and cons for the moment, for me, a very big pro is one of the cornerstones of the EC: the free movement within the EC of individuals from member states. Nowadays, we are free to work, socialise and mix and mingle, intermarry, and generally get along just fine, as recently as 70 years ago we were slaughtering each other on an industrial scale.
#15
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Leaving aside the economic and legislative pros and cons for the moment, for me, a very big pro is one of the cornerstones of the EC: the free movement within the EC of individuals from member states. Nowadays, we are free to work, socialise and mix and mingle, intermarry, and generally get along just fine, as recently as 70 years ago we were slaughtering each other on an industrial scale.
we went as a family (Me, wife and 5 kids) to the wedding of our old Au Pair in Paderborn (Germany) last year
and it was as simple as if we were driving to Edinburgh
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Leaving aside the economic and legislative pros and cons for the moment, for me, a very big pro is one of the cornerstones of the EC: the free movement within the EC of individuals from member states. Nowadays, we are free to work, socialise and mix and mingle, intermarry, and generally get along just fine, as recently as 70 years ago we were slaughtering each other on an industrial scale.
#17
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Leaving aside the economic and legislative pros and cons for the moment, for me, a very big pro is one of the cornerstones of the EC: the free movement within the EC of individuals from member states. Nowadays, we are free to work, socialise and mix and mingle, intermarry, and generally get along just fine, as recently as 70 years ago we were slaughtering each other on an industrial scale.
You could do that anyway , maybe a little pricier
I sincerely doubt we would start slaughtering each other straight away if federal state of Europe fell down tomorrow
#18
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I am assuming nothing
I have already stated in another thread that a Brexit would not see an economic collapse - the world would still turn
investment / trade would continue
however, there must be a reason why the likes of the CBI are lobbying to stay in
and organisations like Deutsche Bank are actively exploring their options if we leave
why would Nissan/Ford want to suffer a 17% export tariff to send its cars across the channel
the economic case for leaving is far from a slam dunk, and there would be winners and losers, as with everything
i am just asking, amongst other things who the winners and losers are
I have already stated in another thread that a Brexit would not see an economic collapse - the world would still turn
investment / trade would continue
however, there must be a reason why the likes of the CBI are lobbying to stay in
and organisations like Deutsche Bank are actively exploring their options if we leave
why would Nissan/Ford want to suffer a 17% export tariff to send its cars across the channel
the economic case for leaving is far from a slam dunk, and there would be winners and losers, as with everything
i am just asking, amongst other things who the winners and losers are
I'm not pretending to know the answers and am also searching for the winners and losers.
What is your source for this 17% export tariff and would it definitely exist? Wouldn't it depend on what new trade deal we negotiated?
#19
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Leaving aside the economic and legislative pros and cons for the moment, for me, a very big pro is one of the cornerstones of the EC: the free movement within the EC of individuals from member states. Nowadays, we are free to work, socialise and mix and mingle, intermarry, and generally get along just fine, as recently as 70 years ago we were slaughtering each other on an industrial scale.
Sam, you generally talk a lot of sense and I appreciate your sentiment but find that statement lacking in substance. We don't need to belong to an institution the size of the EU to be able to 'socialize, mix and mingle and intermarry'
Human beings have been doing all those things for centuries. I travel 2-3 times a year (almost never to Europe) and have no problems of any kind at all.
#20
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and yes we could negotiate new trade deals - at what level and whether they would be any better, who knows
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 23 May 2015 at 08:48 PM.
#22
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Maybe so with trading but we seem to be a hell of a lot of money compared to other countries. I think the money should be invested into the nhs and the uk as a whole. Why the **** are we governed by Europe and there laws. In ww2 we fought for freedom now we do as we are told. Who wants more immigrants over here, I don't.
#23
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Human beings have been doing all those things for centuries. I travel 2-3 times a year (almost never to Europe) and have no problems of any kind at all.
#24
OUT ! Only good thing about Europe is I spend 4 weeks a year in it the rest you can keep from immigration to Europe telling me what shape a banana should be. The UK did alright for circa 2000 years before we joined them and would do alright without them for the next 2000 years.
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OUT ! Only good thing about Europe is I spend 4 weeks a year in it the rest you can keep from immigration to Europe telling me what shape a banana should be. The UK did alright for circa 2000 years before we joined them and would do alright without them for the next 2000 years.
This ^^^
#26
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OUT ! Only good thing about Europe is I spend 4 weeks a year in it the rest you can keep from immigration to Europe telling me what shape a banana should be. The UK did alright for circa 2000 years before we joined them and would do alright without them for the next 2000 years.
The bendy bananas argument is idiotic BTW.
As for 2000 years of history, well most of that was spent at war and/or under some sort of occupation.
#27
Actually you spend 52 weeks a year in Europe, that isn't going to change whether we leave or not (unless you emigrate of course).
The bendy bananas argument is idiotic BTW.
As for 2000 years of history, well most of that was spent at war and/or under some sort of occupation.
The bendy bananas argument is idiotic BTW.
As for 2000 years of history, well most of that was spent at war and/or under some sort of occupation.
#28
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We are not attached to Europe we are a Island "the UK that that once spanned from USA to Australia in the past. Those occupied countries benefitted from our occupation unlike our benefit from being "part of Europe" its a bit like your kids trying to tell you how to manage your affairs(patronising). I would like to see Cameron grow some and get back to being the "great " part of Britain, 100 years ago we did not need Polish dentists or Indian surgeons so why do we need them now ?.
The reason we need them now is the UK is full of thick lazy *****.
#29
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The poles and Indians are two very poor examples
I believe the Polish shot down more Germans in the Battle of Britain per pilot than any other allied countrymen
They have even erected a memorial to them, outside RAF Northolt on the A40
I believe the Polish shot down more Germans in the Battle of Britain per pilot than any other allied countrymen
They have even erected a memorial to them, outside RAF Northolt on the A40
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 24 May 2015 at 08:11 AM.