rallycol

iTrader: (4)

Before you jump on the bandwagon TOO much ,NOT enough,etc etc,after 15 years service a qualified firefighter earns ,sorry picks up each pay packet .................................................. ...................wait for it .................................................. .................................................. ...£1100 ,make up your own opinion ,this is reality,I've seen the evidence.

fatherpierre

Well off the top of my head, I'd say a take home pay of £1100 per month works out at about £16-17k per year.

I'm not sure if they have a contributory pension, though.

rallycol

iTrader: (4)

Pension and other stoppages did come into it ,but I suppose it does'nt help pay for your mortgage ,kid's,council tax etc,I must admit it did surprise me aswell.

pslewis

£1100 NET for a Part-Time job??

Give me one!!!

Pete

banshi

I've yt to met anyone "who'd give you one" Pete

fatherpierre

A slap, perhaps

marty_t3

On those shifts, with that job security, that retirement age, that pension and the chance to have another part-time job/run your own business/study at the same time i'd take that job for £1100 net a month. (if i were offered it over the other few hundred applicants that is)

bennyboy

I bet that doesn't include the morgate allowance that some of them receive.... Workers at day man'd stations are paid an allowance for their house as they are required to live within 5 mins of the stations.

Dream Weaver

I've only had one job that paid that amount each month and it was a bloody hard job - about 60 hours a week, lots of pressure, fly off to London and back at the drop of a hat.

Dont forget, they all earn about another £10-12k a year doing gardening etc. Teachers earn less than that. [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

I am sorry but fire fighting is a **** easy job - half of them are fat buggers so you dont need to be that fit either.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Dustmen round here earn up to £11000 a year, top wack. Who'd do that job for a take home of about £150 pw?
AND it's full time.
Alcazar

banshi

As you to some extent answered you own question I'm not sure if you want the details, however:-

Fire-fighter £16,941 on entry per annum rising to £21,531(5th Year)
Leading fire-fighter £23,055 - £24,006
Sub Officer £23,643 - £25,503
Station Officer £27,426 - £29,577
ssistant Divisional Officer £28,908 - £31,605
Divisional Officer III £30,960 - £33,198
Divisional Officer II £32,874 - £36,447
Divisional Officer I £36,312 - £39,928
Senior Divisional Officer £39,090 - £42,168


If this guy had completed 15 years service the wage slip offered would indicate that he lacked either the capacity or desire to undertake the course work to progress beyond the basic grade.

Dream Weaver

[thread hijack]
Banshi - you're alive Did you get my email a week or three ago? I need your address and who to pay cheques to for the charity banger racing we did. Hope you are well.
[/thread hijack]

Daz34

In the 'modernisation' of the fire service that has already taken place, most of those ranks are now defunct. The majority of watch commanders are either Sub Officers or Leading Firefighters rather than Station Officers as had previously been the case. They do the same job but with less pay. Most brigades have taken away the divisional structure that incorporated those senior ranks & station's are now run as seperate businesses with there own budget control. A station Commander, ADO rank, is now accountable to the Chief Fire Officer with no ranks in between.
Anyway, most firefighters like riding fire engines & would rather stay at that rank than do a desk job for better pay. There is no stigma attached to choosing this career path. Infact, in most cases,it is the norm.

banshi

Daz
Thanks for your input, I would not profess to have a detailed knowlege of the brigade structure nationwide.
As far as I am aware these are the current payscales, and SO and Sub O ranks certainly remain at some stations. The information was provided to inform the debate and was not meant to deride anyone, especially those choosing to remain at the sharp end in fact I was careful to include that as a possibility.

DW
Hi Mate,
Typical creative, all the required info was on one of the early threads!

To be honest I've really not checked through my mailboxes recently. In fact I've only ventured out of hibernation for the stimulation of an argument

I'll be "addressing" the sponsorship issue in the next couple of weeks and will be in touch then.

Dave P

The Bain report states there are still 17 ranks which they would like to see fall to 7.

Also Bain states that the only real way currently a fireman can get a pay rise is to get promoted. Bain recommends that additional pay be awarded to firemen who are prepared to learn additional skills which could give a willing fireman the opportunity to earn 30K.

This would allow someone who wishes to stay at the sharp end to still earn a reasonable salary.

Bain also recommends overtime which also gives the potential for increased income.

One does wonder how many firemen have actually read the Bain recommendations, because to me they seem to make a lot of sense.

Dave

camk

[Edited by camk - 11/27/2002 9:56:41 AM]

Daz34

Reduced workforce + overtime = A happier family friendly enviroment. I don't think so! I think paragraph 50 of the Bain Review sums up how full of PC Bull***t it is.
Also I have posted a statement by someone eminently more qualified than I am to comment on it.







Darren

rallycol

iTrader: (4)

Interesting reading Daz,the public should be informed better,looks like this Bain report is a shambles.

Dave P

Darren,

No one is ever truly independant and that includes your eminent Professor Seifert who was co-author of a book Facing up to Thatcherism - The History of NALGO, which he wrote with Michael Ironside a trade union activist. Guess we know what colour his spots are then.

Had this come from a Professor at the LSE I may have taken more note.

I personally don't see how a rigid shift system can be family flexible when compared to flexible working, unless of course it's work 2 days then get up to 6 days off!

Any organisation whose working practices are based upon a law passed in 1947 needs modernising. As I have said before if the car industry hadn't modernised we would all still be driving Morris Minors.

Dave

TRIGGER

I agree entirely with Dave P. This professor Seifart is very obviously a supporter of the trade Unions so how indeed can his opinion (and that's what it is no matter how mcuh you shout) be 'Independent' ?

He talks about the Fire Service having special needs and then goes on to compare against other Public services - you cannot have it both ways, it's either comparable or not. His rambling is full of such contradictions.

Of course refusing to work overtime is a restrictive practice. For heavens sake, if you refuse to do something it is restrictive - if the result makes you worse off then reform is needed, BUT that is what they are suggesting !!

He gets so confused over what Modernisation means - he is a very thick professor if he cannot work that out. The Fire Service is run in the same way it was when set up in the 1940's. How can they expect that type of way of working in the next century ?

The Bain report isnt unbiased and is in no way perfect but just discounting it is obstructive. Lets be honest Jobs will go, because it is at present a part time job. If you make it full time then less people are needed. It's the way of the world I'm afraid.

Daz34

I take your points regarding Prof Seifert, but how is a 42 hour week part-time??

scoobynutta555

what do they do in a 42 hour week though? The 2 15 hour night shifts they do, they are allowed to sleep in quiet periods, and night call outs are much rarer than day, so it could be assumed that whilst they are asleep they are not working. Once they get out of their pits at the fire station they will have had a good enough kip to be able to start the day afresh.

I would like myself to doss down and have a kip on my night shifts, unfortunatly if i did there would be no work done. Part timers.

Daz34

The Govt keep banging on about how the armed forces are coping & how there are less fires of an evening but the facts are that the Armed forces are prioritising calls and only turning out to a third of them. They also do not respond to road traffic accidents, chemical incidents, etc as well.
The fact is more people die in fires during the early hours. There may be less incidents then but there are also less people around to spot them and raise the alarm.
You need an effective firefighting force 24hrs a day.
If you heard an intruder in your house and called the police how long do you think it would take them to respond and attend?
If you call the fire Service in an urban area you will get a red truck outside your house within 5 mins.
Since the Police & Ambulance services were modernised attendance times have risen and moral has dropped.
If the govt get their way the Fire Service will follow suit.
You won't even get an ambulance any more with a dedicated paramedic but a jack of all trades firefighter.
It might be cheaper but it ain't better.

Dave P

DAZ, I calculated that an office worker works 235 days per annum. A fireman works 149 shifts per year of which half of these are at night and he may not get a call out.

Most office workers are expected to work longer than 9 to 5. My contract states my hours are 9 to 5 and additional hours as required by the bank.

My normal working day starts at 7.15am ends at 7pm, don't usually get away from my desk at lunch and have a 1 1/2 hour commute each way. Quite often logon at home to work as well and often get calls from the office while I'm on holiday and work most Bank Holidays. I am set tight deadlines on everything better is always expected the next time often against increased volume vs flat or decreasing headcount.

Yes they reward me well, but this year is tight and there will be no bonuses, no pay rises and 150,000 in the City have lost their jobs this year already.

This is life outside of the public services. There is no 'job for life', no retirement at 50, no full pension scheme.

I think this is why the tide of support is changing people are beginning to realise that the life of the firefighter isn't so bad and that there are many, many people worse off.

I tell you now, many times I think about quitting and training to become a teacher or a nurse. But at the moment I'm not prepared to take the pay cut. This is my choice. Ultimately we all have chhoices when it comes to our employment and the bottom line is if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Don't stay there and risk other peoples lives!


Dave