Ungreatful French unites with Germany to prevent crusades against Iraq
22 January 2003, 07:28 PM
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2683409.stm
"The leaders of France and Germany have pledged to intensify their co-operation against a US-led war against Iraq."
After all we have done for them during the war this is the thanks that we get? A slap in the face I tell you.
"The leaders of France and Germany have pledged to intensify their co-operation against a US-led war against Iraq."
After all we have done for them during the war this is the thanks that we get? A slap in the face I tell you.
22 January 2003, 07:31 PM
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Wait until you read the text below.
I actually think the French dislike the English more than we dislike them [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Blair fury as Mugabe is invited to France
A new row erupted today between Tony Blair and President Chirac - after France sent a warm invitation to President Robert Mugabe to a Paris summit.
The invitation to next month's event flies in the face of the international effort, led by Britain, to make the Zimbabwe leader a global pariah because of his human rights abuses.
It also flouts a European Union visa ban on the Zimbabwe leadership.
The move was instantly condemned by Britain. International Development Secretary Clare Short told the Commons that it was just "not right". No10 and the Foreign Office were caught on the hop as it became clear that Britain had been neither consulted nor informed. The Tories demanded that Mr Blair wield the UK's veto to block the trip.
The row marks the latest slump in the extraordinary up-and-down relationship between Mr Blair and President Chirac. Last year saw an bizarre clash at a gathering of EU leaders when M Chirac, angered after tough exchanges over Iraq and EU farm prices, told Mr Blair he had never been spoken to so rudely.
M Chirac then called off a planned Anglo-French summit but, after conciliatory words from Mr Blair, the event will take place in two weeks.
On current plans, President Mugabe will stride onto the red carpet in Paris just two weeks later, an event that now threatens to blight any effort by Mr Blair and M Chirac to reconcile.
I actually think the French dislike the English more than we dislike them [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Blair fury as Mugabe is invited to France
A new row erupted today between Tony Blair and President Chirac - after France sent a warm invitation to President Robert Mugabe to a Paris summit.
The invitation to next month's event flies in the face of the international effort, led by Britain, to make the Zimbabwe leader a global pariah because of his human rights abuses.
It also flouts a European Union visa ban on the Zimbabwe leadership.
The move was instantly condemned by Britain. International Development Secretary Clare Short told the Commons that it was just "not right". No10 and the Foreign Office were caught on the hop as it became clear that Britain had been neither consulted nor informed. The Tories demanded that Mr Blair wield the UK's veto to block the trip.
The row marks the latest slump in the extraordinary up-and-down relationship between Mr Blair and President Chirac. Last year saw an bizarre clash at a gathering of EU leaders when M Chirac, angered after tough exchanges over Iraq and EU farm prices, told Mr Blair he had never been spoken to so rudely.
M Chirac then called off a planned Anglo-French summit but, after conciliatory words from Mr Blair, the event will take place in two weeks.
On current plans, President Mugabe will stride onto the red carpet in Paris just two weeks later, an event that now threatens to blight any effort by Mr Blair and M Chirac to reconcile.
22 January 2003, 07:34 PM
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That would be the same French who did not want to get involved in the last conflict and did not back/side the UK against the Argies. Since we kicked Frenchies ar$es so hard back in Napolionic times they do seem to have it in for us.
But lets face it - the French are not exactly any good at it are they. The Germans walked all over them (or round them in the Maginot Line as the case may be) so they are better off keeping away from any form of conflict other than beating up British truck drivers or seting fire to animals in trucks as done during farm strikes.
Perhaps we should declare war on the French next!
(sits back after lighting blue touch paper) 
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 1/22/2003 7:39:28 PM]
But lets face it - the French are not exactly any good at it are they. The Germans walked all over them (or round them in the Maginot Line as the case may be) so they are better off keeping away from any form of conflict other than beating up British truck drivers or seting fire to animals in trucks as done during farm strikes.
Perhaps we should declare war on the French next!
(sits back after lighting blue touch paper) [Edited by Paul Habgood - 1/22/2003 7:39:28 PM]
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22 January 2003, 07:43 PM
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Until we gain the moral high ground, there isn't a justifiable reason to go to war with Iraq. Disliking Saddam Hussein isn't a good enough reason. It will become another Vietnam and the whole of the Arab world will turn against us.
A Ricin plant in London will only be the tip of the iceberg. The difference is we have a large community of Muslims in this country and there is many opportunities for the terrorists to blend in with the decent hardworking men on the street. This will be a disaster for us and the British Muslim community as a whole.
A Ricin plant in London will only be the tip of the iceberg. The difference is we have a large community of Muslims in this country and there is many opportunities for the terrorists to blend in with the decent hardworking men on the street. This will be a disaster for us and the British Muslim community as a whole.
22 January 2003, 07:46 PM
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Luke
I Imagine the French army is better equipped than ours, then again I believe Action Man has access to better kit!
However backbone may be a problem along with a lack of any practical experience, something us brits and our American brothers in arms have a bit of as we are not known for shying away form a bit 'o bother - Unlike those Garlic chewing Frenchies!
Did anyone mention Blitzkreig?
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 1/22/2003 7:47:30 PM]
I Imagine the French army is better equipped than ours, then again I believe Action Man has access to better kit!
However backbone may be a problem along with a lack of any practical experience, something us brits and our American brothers in arms have a bit of as we are not known for shying away form a bit 'o bother - Unlike those Garlic chewing Frenchies!
Did anyone mention Blitzkreig?
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 1/22/2003 7:47:30 PM]
22 January 2003, 07:46 PM
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I dont think its a case of what have we done for them or who owes who what sort of commitment the fact is that this isnt going to be a war and its certainly not about weapons of mass destruction its George Bush's personal crusade with lap-dog Blair naturally fetching the stick every time its thrown.
France and Germany have got it spot on my staying level headed and looking at the facts in my opinion instead of letting themselves get carried away on their emotions like certain other large countries.
France and Germany have got it spot on my staying level headed and looking at the facts in my opinion instead of letting themselves get carried away on their emotions like certain other large countries.
22 January 2003, 07:49 PM
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"The difference is we have a large community of Muslims in this country and there is many opportunities for the terrorists to blend in with the decent hardworking men on the street."
This is what racial profilling is for. Would you expect a white male to engage in suicide bombings in England? Obviously not. If you read the news all the suicide bombers are muslims.
Racial Profiling is not racist. It is merely common sense like saying that people with long hair are more likely to like Rock music.
This is what racial profilling is for. Would you expect a white male to engage in suicide bombings in England? Obviously not. If you read the news all the suicide bombers are muslims.
Racial Profiling is not racist. It is merely common sense like saying that people with long hair are more likely to like Rock music.
22 January 2003, 07:57 PM
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France and Germany have got it spot on my staying level headed and looking at the facts in my opinion instead of letting themselves get carried away on their emotions like certain other large countries
Germans and the French did the same regarding the former Yugoslavia as well, Lots of Intel re what was hapopeing to the people, etc - look what happened there Mass Geniocide - The only thing that stopped this was the USA intervening and bombing Milosovic(sp)
Sometimes you just have to stand up and be counted.
We are not in possesion of all the facts - maybe there is more to it that meets the eye!
France and Germany have got it spot on my staying level headed and looking at the facts in my opinion instead of letting themselves get carried away on their emotions like certain other large countries
Germans and the French did the same regarding the former Yugoslavia as well, Lots of Intel re what was hapopeing to the people, etc - look what happened there Mass Geniocide - The only thing that stopped this was the USA intervening and bombing Milosovic(sp)
Sometimes you just have to stand up and be counted.
We are not in possesion of all the facts - maybe there is more to it that meets the eye!
22 January 2003, 07:57 PM
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What did the Americans do to the Japanese residents in Hawai in WW2? Once the war was over, they were then released. This is a good thing in a sense that there were no sabotouers during that period of turmoil.
22 January 2003, 08:06 PM
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Paul,
Fair enough that may be the case but without sounding completely narrow minded and selfish why are we now, and why have we in the past sent our men and women of the forces to the other side of the world to fight a battle which doesnt concern us.
We have enough problems on our own little island without taking on everybody elses too. I live a mile from the british exit of the channel tunnel and immigrant/terrorist (lets face it theres no effective laws or real checks who can tell the difference) spotting is something of a sport round these parts. Have a wander up onto the hills at night and watch them shoot out of the tunnel like mice from a hole. Maybe and only maybe when we have tightened our borders, got that muppet out of downing street, sorted the rest of our growing list of domestic problems and generally got our act together we can start helping other nations with their issues.
There </narrowmindedbigotness> :P
Fair enough that may be the case but without sounding completely narrow minded and selfish why are we now, and why have we in the past sent our men and women of the forces to the other side of the world to fight a battle which doesnt concern us.
We have enough problems on our own little island without taking on everybody elses too. I live a mile from the british exit of the channel tunnel and immigrant/terrorist (lets face it theres no effective laws or real checks who can tell the difference) spotting is something of a sport round these parts. Have a wander up onto the hills at night and watch them shoot out of the tunnel like mice from a hole. Maybe and only maybe when we have tightened our borders, got that muppet out of downing street, sorted the rest of our growing list of domestic problems and generally got our act together we can start helping other nations with their issues.
There </narrowmindedbigotness> :P
22 January 2003, 08:12 PM
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what of those who were born here (like moses for instance)?
Why should he be dispossesed from his place of birth.
If he went to the country of his ethnic origin, they would call him 'Englishman'. He would be regarded with contempt (The same as what you are doing here)
Why should he be dispossesed from his place of birth.
If he went to the country of his ethnic origin, they would call him 'Englishman'. He would be regarded with contempt (The same as what you are doing here)
22 January 2003, 08:17 PM
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Quote1
"Fair enough that may be the case but without sounding completely narrow minded and selfish why are we now, and why have we in the past sent our men and women of the forces to the other side of the world to fight a battle which doesnt concern us"
I believe that is what the american congress and people said regading the Germans taking on and overunning Europe in 1939 - thank God the President decided to act, even before Pearl they where sending us the supplies to fight a war, after Pearl they got stuck in.
And with the greatest respect to anyone involved with WW11 if they had not we would all be speaking German and eating Bratwurst!
quote 2
"We have enough problems on our own little island without taking on everybody elses too. I live a mile from the british exit of the channel tunnel and immigrant/terrorist (lets face it theres no effective laws or real checks who can tell the difference) spotting is something of a sport round these parts. Have a wander up onto the hills at night and watch them shoot out of the tunnel like mice from a hole. Maybe and only maybe when we have tightened our borders, got that muppet out of downing street, sorted the rest of our growing list of domestic problems and generally got our act together we can start helping other nations with their issues"
I could not agree more on this one.
The issue is more that Saddam has used Chemical weapons on his own people and has a proven track record in Genocide,He is a nutter and may well be a threat to us now or in the future.
Now then, the Americans may not be squeaky clean but i know who out of the two of them i would trust and want to stand shoulder to shoulder with and to be honest the same goes for europe.
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 1/22/2003 8:21:01 PM]
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 1/22/2003 8:22:09 PM]
"Fair enough that may be the case but without sounding completely narrow minded and selfish why are we now, and why have we in the past sent our men and women of the forces to the other side of the world to fight a battle which doesnt concern us"
I believe that is what the american congress and people said regading the Germans taking on and overunning Europe in 1939 - thank God the President decided to act, even before Pearl they where sending us the supplies to fight a war, after Pearl they got stuck in.
And with the greatest respect to anyone involved with WW11 if they had not we would all be speaking German and eating Bratwurst!
quote 2
"We have enough problems on our own little island without taking on everybody elses too. I live a mile from the british exit of the channel tunnel and immigrant/terrorist (lets face it theres no effective laws or real checks who can tell the difference) spotting is something of a sport round these parts. Have a wander up onto the hills at night and watch them shoot out of the tunnel like mice from a hole. Maybe and only maybe when we have tightened our borders, got that muppet out of downing street, sorted the rest of our growing list of domestic problems and generally got our act together we can start helping other nations with their issues"
I could not agree more on this one.
The issue is more that Saddam has used Chemical weapons on his own people and has a proven track record in Genocide,He is a nutter and may well be a threat to us now or in the future.
Now then, the Americans may not be squeaky clean but i know who out of the two of them i would trust and want to stand shoulder to shoulder with and to be honest the same goes for europe.
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 1/22/2003 8:21:01 PM]
[Edited by Paul Habgood - 1/22/2003 8:22:09 PM]
22 January 2003, 08:18 PM
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22 January 2003, 08:26 PM
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Er Paul, Have you ever heard of Porton Down?.
We developed many of these chemicals and we used them in WW1 against the Germans. I for one want to see concrete proof of this before I agree with it.
As for WW2 'Lest we Forget'. I agree with this sentiment and it will serve as a reminder for us all, long after all of those who lived through have gone.
Why do you think we have the european union?, Its not so we can trade and be happy families, but its so we have Germany as a partner, not an Enemy. 'Lest we forget'.
Ash
We developed many of these chemicals and we used them in WW1 against the Germans. I for one want to see concrete proof of this before I agree with it.
As for WW2 'Lest we Forget'. I agree with this sentiment and it will serve as a reminder for us all, long after all of those who lived through have gone.
Why do you think we have the european union?, Its not so we can trade and be happy families, but its so we have Germany as a partner, not an Enemy. 'Lest we forget'.
Ash