care3

canada, japan etc tighten and loosen bolts and replace lengths of track to allow for expansion and contraction every season,they have to.
imagine railtrack(or whoever it is) taking that job on





[Edited by care3 - 8/5/2003 11:39:27 PM]

Monkeh

The companies that lay the track now weld the lengths of track together so that you dont get the clickerty clack sound like you used to. (where's the room for expansion?)

I would have though saftey comes above noise ??
They obviously didnt think that it would get so hot !! ??


[Edited by Monkeh - 8/6/2003 8:45:36 PM]

Drunken Bungle Whore

An expert opinion please???

Surely the melting point of Steel is way higher than 35C.

And how the hell do they run trains in India and Africa????

What is it - the wrong type of sun???? [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

what would scooby do

They made the tracks out of recycled Imprezas - that's why..

ChrisB

Where's Mr Whiskey?

My understanding...

The rails are pre-stressed under great heat.

Metal expands as it gets hot. When the rails get too hot beyond the design stresses, they can buckle. Train + buckled track = very messy.

Channel 4 news raised the issue last night. Post Potters Bar and Hatfield, there are a number of Railtrack and other employees in court (charged with manslaughter IIRC). It might be a pain in the *** for traveling but who can blaim these people for not wanting to end up in court facing serious charges?

Dracoro

In the winter it's delayed due to snow, ice etc.
In the spring it's delayed due to fixing tracks & maintenance.
In the summer it's delayed due to the melting metal.
In the autumn it's delayed due to leaves on the line.

Err, uummm, cooeee, right, it's just, you know, like, at what time of the year are the trains NOT delayed?

I thought that tracks were DESIGNED to move/expand etc. under varying conditions. Hence the angled track joins etc. Has something changed? Other hotter countries manage it ok so why can't we?

Right, let's go find a government propagandist to say, 'out yer cars and onto the lovely trains'

[Edited by Dracoro - 05/08/2003 11:23:53]

what would scooby do

Fat chance - I will be doing the opposite, as it's cheaper, healthier and more reliable..

New Labour *****[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

RB5320

as ChrisB says - rails are stressed proir to laying to prevent them buckling when it gets hot. But they dont take into account the very high temperatures we have been getting for the last couple of years. This is because it is a compromise - if they cater for higher temperatures then they are stuffed in the winter when it gets really cold.
Other countries apparently retension the rails twice a year to allow for the full range of temperatures. We dont. What a surprise.

Steve

Drunken Bungle Whore

Chris - I'm not suggesting they should run any faster if it's dangerous.

My point is - why the hell have they built tracks out of p1$$ poor materials to start with? I'm pretty sure temperatures in Japan are equally this high - what happens to the bullet train then???

Most of central Europe has these temperatues on a regular basis - are their trains always delayed....?

Edited to say - thanks RB5320!

[Edited by Drunken Bungle ***** - 05/08/2003 11:24:23]

ChrisB

Two things really

1) Laws of physics

2) Budgets

Gridlock Mikey

Bollox!

Any excuse for a day off/strike/doss!

Mikey

SJ_Skyline

Sez im that woz posting non-stop in muppets last week

Leslie

Its the wrong kind of sun!

Les

D6ale

iTrader: (1)

i think really to save costs. the tracks are made of plastiscene.

trains seem to be made completly of plastic - iv'e never found that much metal on them so it seems to make sense to me

GaryK

Yes that old thing called cost, like most sectors it seems privatisation has put shareholders returns above investment and safety!!!

Markus

I'd ask the ol man, him being some rail ultrasonics type chappy, he should know, but hey, I'm not waking him up lol

blueE9

it's not just that there are bits of central Europe that are hotter, but that there are plenty of bits in the Alps for instance that are BOTH much hotter in Summer and much colder in Winter so presumeably the expansion and contraction is that much greater. It's just embarassing. Apparently they're planning to restrict the trains to 20 mph on parts of the network this week. This is pointless, why not just come clean and cancel the ****ers outright and tell everyone to take their bicycles! At least it'd be more honest.

what would scooby do

'cos passenger compensation for cancellations is higher than for delays ????

care3

i thought it was the gaps between the lengths of track.when it gets as hot as it has recently the length of the track increases so much that it pushes against the next one,eventually some thing has to give.if you had too big a gap,in the winter track ends would damage wheels

Tiggs

of topic a little, i went on a train for the first time in many years last week. Reading to Birmingham to collect a new car.

train came exactly on time, arrived on time.....had free coffee and a sarnie, comfy chair...all very pleasent (not sure i'd go in cattle class where they were all standing!)

anyway, nice way to travel i thought.

Tiggs

Scooby96

It aint down to the law of physics - trains run ok in Japan, Australia etc and they're hotter than here. Its down to poor rail management!

Fat Boy

Japan, Canada etc are not only hotter than here, they are also far colder in the winter

midget1500

as Care3 said, i thought it was because the expansion gaps close up and then the tracks hit each other and hey presto - something has to give.

now, get this. if the tracks do buckle and present this dangerous scenario then surely the trains should *not* run at all? seems like damage limitation - ohh a crash at 60mph will be better than one at 100mph. either that or the buckled tracks wont present such a danger at 60mph.

humm hoo! serves you right for using public transport

Adrian F

And we pay for this out of our Taxes. I want my money back.

P.S. most of the track was laid before privatisation it was as bad in the BR days.

DaveD

iTrader: (2)

The rails in the UK are pre-stressed before laying, but as has been said, are set to cope with temperature swings of around 40 degC. The main rail routes are generally used 24/7, and it just isn't practical to stress/lay them differently for winter/summer.

There have been instances in the past of rails bucking in the heat (a mile-long piece of steel can expand a great amount!), although generally track standards have improved greatly in recent years. One thing that hasn't improved is the method of maintenance and use of sub-contractors. Whereas in the past locals would know where 'good' and potentially 'dodgy' bits of track would have been, Network Rail hasn't got a clue, and so has to resort to blanket speed restrictions......

Oh, and the Shinkansen in Japan closes down every night for track maintenance.

pugoetru

but that IS their job maybe if they done it right the network would actually improve.

as someone pointed out the network has been there for a long time maybee its time for drastic measures new tracks new stations etc would cost a lot but would also sort the problems.

i have travelled from cumbernauld to ayr a few times 1 hour at most in car on train 2hours? at best!

whats the problem?
no traffic jams
no hold ups for roadworks
no speed cameras!

why does it take so long?

this is why people use their cars instead

the only other solution is to build more roads to get rid of the traffic jams then just use the railways for coal shiffting

Drunken Bungle Whore

So - as no trains seem to run at night (well very few anyway) why can't we do trakc miantenance over night every night..?

And according to a couple of news reports I read/ saw - it's the newly laid tracks that are the problem.

pugoetru

YES THATS ABOUT RIGHT CANT MAKE NOTHING LAST NOWADAYS

Leslie

I think that there are no gaps any more, the rails are continuously welded. As DaveD said the rails are prestretched to reduce the expansion due to heat but that can only be done so much or there will be more trouble in cold weather due to too much contraction. Maybe the old gapped rails would be better.

Les

Monkeh

hmmm should have read the post above me before replying