Boss Hogg

yes - got an NIP (3 months late because of change of address) - said couldn't remember who was driving because of time delay, pl send photos from camera. They did, which showed No plate only - said sorry, doesn't help, both my wife and I use the car, and we can't remember at all.

Got a letter saying you can state your case in court - and that was 2 1/2 yrs ago - heard zip since....

Also got of both the parking tickets I ever has as well - inc one in central London...

[Edited by Boss Hogg - 9/1/2003 12:30:20 PM]

Andrewza

With that sort of fine I'd lose my license on points totting up before I hit my premium for one year :angry:

Also how can you receive points on your license for an offence that isn't related to actually driving a car on public roads?

[Edited by Andrewza - 9/1/2003 3:13:02 PM]

MickeyG

Just thought I would ask the helpful chaps on here. I have an NIP, and was wondering if anyone had actually got the police to drop a speeding case? In the letter I received there were lots of threats about going to court where the penalties could be greater etc.

The stuff I have read about includes:

1. Do not sighn the NIP
2. Claim that it is not your car (it is cloned)
3. Send a letter asking for the evidence etc..

I assume the desired end point is that the CPS (or whoever) simply drop the case as it is not worth their while to take you to court for a 3 point type offence.

Has anyone had experience of this working? If so what approach did you take?

Any advice appreciated.

Mike

^Qwerty^

Read this, as somebody looks to be going for another loop hole:

Here

Chrisgr31

There are reports of cases being dropped. Try looking at some of the other car forums. Might also be worth looking at the Safespeed or ABD websites.

Before considering what rout to take I think you should consider the following points: -

1. Do you know it was it you, and are you guilty? If yes then you do not want to claim your car is cloned, driven by someone else or otherwise lie as if caught you will be deep in the doo-dahs. You will have to rely on other loopholes, whether its the non-signing route, or checking to see the camera and speed limit is properly marked, calibrated etc.

2. Do you know it was your car, but not know who was driving? In which case fill in the form saying so

3. Was your car never there? If so you can go down the cloned route.

CC

I receieved an nip for 'dangerous driving', the policemen in the car who witnessed my car being driven 'dangerously' never managed to catch the car to stop it and therefore couldnt 100% determine who was driving the car at the time.

So i returned the nip stating i didnt know who was driving as several people had access to it and i couldnt remember who it was, after a couple of nasty letters asking me to name the driver i heard nothing more, that was about 5-6 years ago .

NotoriousREV

Personally recieved an NIP which I returned filled in but unsigned, after a couple of mildly threatening letters have heard nothing. Now outside the 6 month limit to be presented to the magistrates.

Other half has done the same thing, still within 6 months but it's all gone quiet.

^Qwerty^

Any legal bods care to comment on the implications of the latest at the top of link I posted up above?

Would that not make any prior conviction unlawful(unsafe?), and thus open the flood gates of people asking for their money back, points removed from their license, and in some cases, loss of earnings etc?

T.C

The only time I have managed to get summonses withdrawn is on behalf of other people where I have been able to prove that the signage was illegal or on a point of procedure.

I could have made a fortune, but such is life

Andrewza

Interesting skeleton letter at the top on that link ^qwerty^, if I've read that correctly you can still get off even after sending back a signed NIP.

If you fill it in at all (even unsigned, but they determine that you did fill it in) it's a voluntary confession, but you weren't cautioned or advised of your rights prior to your voluntary confession, so it's not a fair trial (rights under PACE breached and rights under Article 6 of the ECHR).

This also begs the question if you were advised of your rights surely you can't legally be required to fill it in at all?

T.C

This may please you then.

Under the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 Sch 3, from now on, anyone who fails to provide the Police, information as to the identity of a driver in the case of certain offences i,e speeding, dangerous driving etc, in other words all the offences contained on the NIP, then the matter can be dealt with by way of fixed penalty with a fine of £120 and 3 points and will be an absolute offence unless a reasonable defence can be shown.

Additionaly, No insurance is also being incorporated into the fixed penalty scheme with an ammendment to the Fixed penalty offences order 2003 which will levy a fine of £200 and 3 points unless it is dealt with by the courts in which case the old penalties stand.

This came through this morning in Wilkinsons's Road traffic law bulletin which is sent out to all of us in the legal profession.

^Qwerty^

For no insurance????? FFS, wot's that about.

T.C

My point exactly, my blood was boiling when I read it. What message does it send out to the scumbags that choose not to insure?

It will be a case of three strikes before they are out, although I suspect that most policemen will still continue to report them for summons so that they can be dealt with properly by the courts.

pugoetru

this country sucks
let off the scummbags with 3 points £200 fine

that will make the problem worse

BUT.....
the government will make more money as they dont have to go to court anymore

and the surcharge for victims of crime!

what a joke

^Qwerty^

Maybe they are trying to make not having insurance as socially acceptable as speeding is, thus opening up a whole new revenue channel to the average man on the street?

pugoetru

sounds like it to me dont fix the problem just make it easier for them to pay

Boro

iTrader: (1)

A 'friend' of mine sent back his NIP with details of a ficticious friend from USA. Never heard anymore about it.

MickeyG

Cheers for the comments.

When I said cloned I meant the following:

1. Write a letter politely pointing out that if the vehicle was mine I certainly would have been the driver. I am unable with any degree of certainty able to confirm being at that exact location, at the exact time mentioned and also committing the alleged offence.
2. In view of this and the seriousness of the offence, can they provide me with the evidence which beyond reasonable doubt confirms that this is my vehicle. And after this keep silent.

The key question is - are they able to prove that this is definatley my car? Putting the pressure on them to prove my guilt, rather than putting my hands up saying fair cop.

Has anyone tried this approach?

Regards,

Mike