Why can't I have my opinion?
16 October 2003, 07:33 PM
#1
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If i say I don't want asylum seekers in the country I get told I connot say this because it is rascist. If I do not agree with the acts of homesexuals i am a pregidist, if I think blokes can do some stuff better then girls (and vice versa) I am sexist. Ohh and I suppose that all older people are as technology switched on as youngsters.
If I have these views they are my choice I do not have to be called a...... As far as I am concerned if I don't act on my opinions or stop others having theres there is nothing wrong.
If I have these views they are my choice I do not have to be called a...... As far as I am concerned if I don't act on my opinions or stop others having theres there is nothing wrong.
16 October 2003, 07:43 PM
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Its always OK if its the other way round though isn't it. ie Assoc black police officers etc. Imagine if that was the Assoc of White police officers. There would be uproar about it. The whole country is just pathetic. All these PC do -gooders should be lined up and shot or fukced off to where they came from.
chip.
chip.
16 October 2003, 07:48 PM
#4
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You are as entitled to your opinion as all those politically correct 
liberal wet do-gooders who seem to want us all to share theirs.
I don't want asylum seekers here either. If they arrive here by the internationally agreed legal protocols then they wouldn't be here anyway, so they're all illegal immigrants.
I have no problem with homosexuality, but I don't want to see it blatanly paraded in front of me as some sort of statement of freedom just like I don't want to watch dogs sh!tt!ng.
Yes, old people are doddery and get in my way, but I'll be old one day and the young can mock me then.
Men can do some things better than girls, but girls can do other things better than us. Is it invertedly sexist to admit a female is better at something to the detrement of masculine pride?
liberal wet do-gooders who seem to want us all to share theirs.I don't want asylum seekers here either. If they arrive here by the internationally agreed legal protocols then they wouldn't be here anyway, so they're all illegal immigrants.
I have no problem with homosexuality, but I don't want to see it blatanly paraded in front of me as some sort of statement of freedom just like I don't want to watch dogs sh!tt!ng.
Yes, old people are doddery and get in my way, but I'll be old one day and the young can mock me then.
Men can do some things better than girls, but girls can do other things better than us. Is it invertedly sexist to admit a female is better at something to the detrement of masculine pride?
16 October 2003, 08:07 PM
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Using Corradoboys statements here but my replies are for all.
I think we (as a world community) have a DUTY to asylum seekers. If this country went down to the pan and YOU were being persecuted and tortured etc. then you'd want somewhere to be safe.
The problem is there is a high number of Illegal Immigrants posing AS asylum seekers that is causing the problems at the moment. (& it's up to the govt. to sort it out)
And I bet you hold hands and kiss your girlfriend in public. No difference really. Most gay people aren't these big ol' camp queenies you know. A lot of the OTT campness really doesn't bother me although the 'I'm soooo gay' types really are very boring and cliched. The boring cliched bloky football shirted type chanting and wolf-whistling the ladies and getting into fights etc. just to 'prove' their 'masculinity' are just as bad as the OTT camp guys. I don't want either shoved down my throat.
and vive versa. You're so right there! 
The biggest problem is people are pidgeon holing themselves into the for/against positions. Let's have some sensible middle ground here.
I don't want asylum seekers here either
The problem is there is a high number of Illegal Immigrants posing AS asylum seekers that is causing the problems at the moment. (& it's up to the govt. to sort it out)
I have no problem with homosexuality, but I don't want to see it blatanly paraded in front of me as some sort of statement of freedom just like I don't want to watch dogs sh!tt!ng.
Men can do some things better than girls, but girls can do other things better than us. Is it invertedly sexist to admit a female is better at something to the detrement of masculine pride?
The biggest problem is people are pidgeon holing themselves into the for/against positions. Let's have some sensible middle ground here.
16 October 2003, 08:12 PM
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Guess its all about respecting others 
[Edited by Jye - 10/16/2003 8:13:03 PM]
"First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist - so I said nothing. Then they came for the Social Democrats, but I was not a Social Democrat - so I did nothing. Then they came for the trade unionists, but I was not a trade unionist. And then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew - so I did little. Then when they came for me, there was no one left who could stand up for me."
MARTIN NIEMOELLER JULY 1, 1937
MARTIN NIEMOELLER JULY 1, 1937
[Edited by Jye - 10/16/2003 8:13:03 PM]
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16 October 2003, 11:28 PM
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16 October 2003, 11:38 PM
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Ian - You can't have your opinion cos it is wrong..... you understand? 
Dracoro - You namby pamby PC big girls blouse...... I have spent the last 30 years in a country that went down to the pan and one section of the community has been persistantly persecuted and tortured etc.... Mostly by Maggie Thatch, That guy John, Mr B. Liar etc, all of the British Army, all of their colleagues in the loyalist paramilataries. England is the last place I would be looking for asylum. I would more likely look there if I wanted a good kicking by the forces of the crown, followed up by another good kicking by some different forces of the crown. BTW - In case you are confused - I am neither nationalist, republican nor RC. I am not involved with the 'loyalist' drug lords and so am confined to a life of thinking 'Thats a good place to live - No flags, no drugs, no taigs and no huns'
You seem to think that 'your country' is a place where people would choose to live of their own free will. They only want in for the dole and the NHS. If both of these were abolished tomorrow, I am quite sure there would be a large camp outside Dover full of english people waiting to get out...
Dracoro - You namby pamby PC big girls blouse...... I have spent the last 30 years in a country that went down to the pan and one section of the community has been persistantly persecuted and tortured etc.... Mostly by Maggie Thatch, That guy John, Mr B. Liar etc, all of the British Army, all of their colleagues in the loyalist paramilataries. England is the last place I would be looking for asylum. I would more likely look there if I wanted a good kicking by the forces of the crown, followed up by another good kicking by some different forces of the crown. BTW - In case you are confused - I am neither nationalist, republican nor RC. I am not involved with the 'loyalist' drug lords and so am confined to a life of thinking 'Thats a good place to live - No flags, no drugs, no taigs and no huns'
You seem to think that 'your country' is a place where people would choose to live of their own free will. They only want in for the dole and the NHS. If both of these were abolished tomorrow, I am quite sure there would be a large camp outside Dover full of english people waiting to get out...
17 October 2003, 09:02 AM
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Dracoro says "And I bet you hold hands and kiss your girlfriend in public. No difference really"
beg to differ - how would the human population continue - sexual repro is 1 male 1 female - no homosexuals could be successful in proliferation.
I have no real problem with gays - but I also do not want it rammed down my throat "so to speak".
it isn't normal (see above re. sex repro) - but each to their own.
as for immigrants - doesn't really matter now - we are so overun - they can and no doubt will continue to breed like rabbits, aspire to higher political and business positions (often because of reverse discrimination) and will eventually run the country.
beg to differ - how would the human population continue - sexual repro is 1 male 1 female - no homosexuals could be successful in proliferation.
I have no real problem with gays - but I also do not want it rammed down my throat "so to speak".
it isn't normal (see above re. sex repro) - but each to their own.
as for immigrants - doesn't really matter now - we are so overun - they can and no doubt will continue to breed like rabbits, aspire to higher political and business positions (often because of reverse discrimination) and will eventually run the country.
17 October 2003, 09:03 AM
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ianmiller - you state in the other thread that you can't vote for more than two years, making you 15? And your views show it. Not everything in life is black/white, yes/no, gay/straight.
You're fully entitled to your opinions, as I'm sure you know, but what you seem to be whining about is that no-one LIKES your views. Get used to it.
You're fully entitled to your opinions, as I'm sure you know, but what you seem to be whining about is that no-one LIKES your views. Get used to it.
17 October 2003, 09:07 AM
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Do all the Asylum seekers arrive in the UK by plane or is France recognised by the UN as a country liable to cause attrocities to asylum seekers? I always thought that international law stated that people should claim asylum in the 1st safe country they came to not the one that gives the best benefits.
17 October 2003, 10:07 AM
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DAC
I'm not suggesting that we ALL become homosexual!!! Anyway, maybe some people being homosexual is nature's(or god if you are that way inclined ) way of curbing population growth Which brings me nicely on to.....
But above you are saying that's being gay is wrong as it stops population growth??? And it's OK for us to breed like rabbits but not immigrants! (which nearly ALL of us are if you go back through history for enough!)
You're paranoid. Anyway, what would be wrong with, say, an immigrant running the country? As long as they do a good job (and that's how they'd get elected in the 1st place) who cares. And let's not forget we are NOT 'overun' by immigrants. That may be the PERCEPTION in a small pocketed areas but as a whole 'non british/english'(whatever that means) people are still a tiny minority in the whole scheme of things.
[Edited by Dracoro - 10/17/2003 10:08:24 AM]
beg to differ - how would the human population continue - sexual repro is 1 male 1 female - no homosexuals could be successful in proliferation.
) way of curbing population growth Which brings me nicely on to.....
we are so overun - they can and no doubt will continue to breed like rabbits
aspire to higher political and business positions (often because of reverse discrimination) and will eventually run the country.
) people are still a tiny minority in the whole scheme of things.[Edited by Dracoro - 10/17/2003 10:08:24 AM]
17 October 2003, 10:48 AM
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Dracoro - I'm not suggesting that we ALL become homosexual!!! Anyway, maybe some people being homosexual is nature's(or god if you are that way inclined ) way of curbing population growth.
hmmm - don't know any other species engaged in homosexuality.
-if you can afford to support loads of kids - have them - but most (see most) immigrants can't support themselves and then expect us to support their families also. (the total income/state benefits they receive are greater than they can ever hope to earn - hence how does this help the country ?)
Dracoro - do you live in an town/city where immigrants are continually being housed ? - I do - so have first hand experience.
(you may also)
Dracoro - I think we will have to agree to differ - as said earlier - all should have their own opinions.
hmmm - don't know any other species engaged in homosexuality.
-if you can afford to support loads of kids - have them - but most (see most) immigrants can't support themselves and then expect us to support their families also. (the total income/state benefits they receive are greater than they can ever hope to earn - hence how does this help the country ?)
Dracoro - do you live in an town/city where immigrants are continually being housed ? - I do - so have first hand experience.
(you may also)
Dracoro - I think we will have to agree to differ - as said earlier - all should have their own opinions.
17 October 2003, 10:57 AM
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Political Correctness is just an invention of the Daily Mail reading conservative establishment as a backlash against society rebelling against their petty-minded bigotry.
Do you know anyone who actually has ever been upset by the word "Blackboard"? No, of course not, but the right-of-centre press ran endless stories like this over the 80's as a reaction to their view that decent, liberal, equality was prevailing, and stopping their sexist, racist norms.
We still see it today in the press with scare stories about Europe and Asylum.
The fact is that there is a need for the asylum system to be re-examined, but the UK has a worldwide reputation as welcoming refugees, and allowing them to contribute to our society. I think this is something to be celebrated. We are a nation of immigrants, French, German, Danish....
As for not seeing homosexual people holding hands in the street, well, in South Africa and the US until very recently, there were lots of 'normal' people who couldn't stand seeing blacks in the street or on the bus. Is it very much difference??
Do you know anyone who actually has ever been upset by the word "Blackboard"? No, of course not, but the right-of-centre press ran endless stories like this over the 80's as a reaction to their view that decent, liberal, equality was prevailing, and stopping their sexist, racist norms.
We still see it today in the press with scare stories about Europe and Asylum.
The fact is that there is a need for the asylum system to be re-examined, but the UK has a worldwide reputation as welcoming refugees, and allowing them to contribute to our society. I think this is something to be celebrated. We are a nation of immigrants, French, German, Danish....
As for not seeing homosexual people holding hands in the street, well, in South Africa and the US until very recently, there were lots of 'normal' people who couldn't stand seeing blacks in the street or on the bus. Is it very much difference??
17 October 2003, 11:06 AM
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-----
You seem to think that 'your country' is a place where people would choose to live of their own free will. They only want in for the dole and the NHS. If both of these were abolished tomorrow, I am quite sure there would be a large camp outside Dover full of english people waiting to get out...
-----
Fast Bloke, not true, why would they get out when no bugger else would have us
personally Id rather have a policy where we pay hardly any NI but if we want ot be treated by the NHS then we have to have private health insurance, a bit like the US really... I dont see why I should be taxxed this and that and pay through my nose in NI when I dont get bugger all back at the end of it all.
as for what people are saying regarding the homosexuals I agree, I dont feel it should be publisied (dont jump on my back as this is my OPINION and thats why this thread is about ) just like smokers are being told they cant smoke in public places now etc.
as said its nature to be man and woman but male male for example is wrong, OK if u liek the other person and think of them as a life partner type thing persoanlities that match and what have u great, Im happy for u, just dont want them showing attraction for 1 another in public in front of my children when Im walking through the market on a saturday (OK I dont have children quite yet but I will 1 day and wouldnt want them becoming "confused" as alot of these "gay" people are.
You seem to think that 'your country' is a place where people would choose to live of their own free will. They only want in for the dole and the NHS. If both of these were abolished tomorrow, I am quite sure there would be a large camp outside Dover full of english people waiting to get out...
-----
Fast Bloke, not true, why would they get out when no bugger else would have us
personally Id rather have a policy where we pay hardly any NI but if we want ot be treated by the NHS then we have to have private health insurance, a bit like the US really... I dont see why I should be taxxed this and that and pay through my nose in NI when I dont get bugger all back at the end of it all.
as for what people are saying regarding the homosexuals I agree, I dont feel it should be publisied (dont jump on my back as this is my OPINION and thats why this thread is about
) just like smokers are being told they cant smoke in public places now etc. as said its nature to be man and woman but male male for example is wrong, OK if u liek the other person and think of them as a life partner type thing persoanlities that match and what have u great, Im happy for u, just dont want them showing attraction for 1 another in public in front of my children when Im walking through the market on a saturday (OK I dont have children quite yet but I will 1 day and wouldnt want them becoming "confused" as alot of these "gay" people are.
17 October 2003, 11:11 AM
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My parents old dog was gay! There has been documented evidence of a variety of animals being gay.
DAC - I live in London, plenty of cultures/races/immigrants etc. here!
My best mate works for the immigration service(home office) so have heard countless stories of illegal immigrants 'trying it on' (there are a lot of them!!) as well as the genuine ones who've had a torrid time. Also, a good mate of mine and his wife (and two kids now) were/are asylum seekers from Bosnia and are now very settled, earning loads of cash and are certainly NOT a drain on our economy, quite the opposite in fact.
Most of asylum seekers don't WANT to be a drain. The problem is that when they first arrive here, the need some time to settle down, have their case processed, find somewhere to live, maybe get educated etc. and in time progress to doing decent jobs. The problem is that many people only 'see' asylum seekers being housed in constrained/pocketed areas when they first get here. After a while they (should) integrate into society but then people don't 'notice' them and thus do not see the positive aspect of what they bring to this country.
Yes there are some that are a drain (most are probably illegal immigrants though) but then again so is that lady from Wife Swap and there are FAR more british people like her draining our economy.
There has been documented evidence of a variety of animals being gay.DAC - I live in London, plenty of cultures/races/immigrants etc. here!
My best mate works for the immigration service(home office) so have heard countless stories of illegal immigrants 'trying it on' (there are a lot of them!!) as well as the genuine ones who've had a torrid time. Also, a good mate of mine and his wife (and two kids now) were/are asylum seekers from Bosnia and are now very settled, earning loads of cash and are certainly NOT a drain on our economy, quite the opposite in fact.
Most of asylum seekers don't WANT to be a drain. The problem is that when they first arrive here, the need some time to settle down, have their case processed, find somewhere to live, maybe get educated etc. and in time progress to doing decent jobs. The problem is that many people only 'see' asylum seekers being housed in constrained/pocketed areas when they first get here. After a while they (should) integrate into society but then people don't 'notice' them and thus do not see the positive aspect of what they bring to this country.
Yes there are some that are a drain (most are probably illegal immigrants though) but then again so is that lady from Wife Swap and there are FAR more british people like her draining our economy.
17 October 2003, 11:27 AM
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Why can't I have my opinion?
I can't remember who said it but:
Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got one!
17 October 2003, 11:47 AM
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This thread was originally about whether we should be able to hold our own opinions without criticism from the Roman Sandal Brigade.
Of course you should be able to IanMiller, and we should continue to do so in the face of the lefty liberals to stop them getting the upper hand and ruining all our valued traditions. Such as calling Trafalgar Square by its real name!
Les
Of course you should be able to IanMiller, and we should continue to do so in the face of the lefty liberals to stop them getting the upper hand and ruining all our valued traditions. Such as calling Trafalgar Square by its real name!
Les
17 October 2003, 11:51 AM
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Of course you can hold and voice an opinion, but everyone else has the right to challenge your views in adult debate. So, if you say "I don't like immegrants", be able to back it up as a point of view, not merely as prejudice.
17 October 2003, 01:09 PM
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If i say I don't want asylum seekers in the country I get told I connot say this because it is rascist. If I do not agree with the acts of homesexuals i am a pregidist, if I think blokes can do some stuff better then girls (and vice versa) I am sexist. Ohh and I suppose that all older people are as technology switched on as youngsters.
If I have these views they are my choice I do not have to be called a...... As far as I am concerned if I don't act on my opinions or stop others having theres there is nothing wrong.
If I have these views they are my choice I do not have to be called a...... As far as I am concerned if I don't act on my opinions or stop others having theres there is nothing wrong.
You can but must accept that if you air your opinions in front of people that hold different values then you will engage in debate. Simple as that.
Unfortunately you appear to be touching on some controversial issues so are clearly going to light a few fires
I used to be a bit like you when I was young, I never needed anyone, and making love was just for fun, those days are gone.
sorry, drifted off there a bit
With respect to your opinions I apologise if I'm being patronising (not intentional) but when I was young everything was soooo black and white. Now that I'm a little (just a little) older I've realised that education and knowledge is essential to the basis of any real opinion. After all what's the point in holding a strong opinion when you lack any firm foundation. We are all guilty of this and too often form opinions based on snippets of what journalists etc. want us to read/see.
Unfortunately as you dig deeper into things to find out the big picture things get progressively more complicated so opinions are much harder to form.
At the end of the day you can have whatever opinion you like, however extreme, but just make sure that it's based on something solid.
Regards
Type-r
[Edited by civictyper - 10/17/2003 1:25:50 PM]
17 October 2003, 06:03 PM
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If I have a prejudice why do I have to back it up with evidence, I well may be wrong.
OK I may well change my views in the future but at the moment this is what I think, but what I do disagree with is teachers telling me what I should think, and being handed worksheets which have questions along the lines of "Why do you think that....." when actually I think the opposite.
OK I may well change my views in the future but at the moment this is what I think, but what I do disagree with is teachers telling me what I should think, and being handed worksheets which have questions along the lines of "Why do you think that....." when actually I think the opposite.