scoobynutta555

Is it just me taking a perverse joy in seeing the Conservative party doing what they do best, ie, double dealing, horse trading and back stabbing.

Have a sneaking admiration for the ruthlessness involved in the whole thing. Having been lumbered with an unelectable nobody by a 'grassroots' voting system of pensioners, the Tory MPs have set about ditching him for somebody more appealing to the public. One assumes that the greater incentive is not winning the next election, but keeping their seats at the next general election.

This farce could have been avoided if the proper person was elected in the first place by the parlimentary MPs and not blue rinsers who barely have a pulse, let alone having a finger on the pulse of a general public opinions and needs. MPs will have a greater need to get the right person in the top job as their very livelehoods depend on it.

Im hoping for a long drawn out leadership battle. It really is a joy to see the passions and underhand tactis involved. If only they applied such actions against the government

As a labour and Blair supporter, im, however, still saddened by the lack of any credible opposition. Our fuedal system of politics is being undermined, and I'd be glad to see a more robust Tory party, although I'm not ready for them to take any government role. They will have a chance I suspect in 2 elections time.

MooseRacer

See ya IDS, he's gone

stephen emery

YES well happy no doubt they will screw up again

steve

CavT

I'd personally not like to see Tony Blair & Co still in there in 2 elections time.... I simply can't afford them to be still in!

stephen emery

Rubbish

scoobynutta555

What probably will happen is that Howard will become the new leader in some sort of pact with Davis. The wise choice would be to choose a new leader in house and bypass the party members for two reasons.

One is that a long drawn out affair possibly will lead to more divisions in the tory party and with a general election looming in about 2 years there isnt enough time for the electorate to forget this mess.

Another will be that i suspect MPs dont really want the old codgers at grassroots level to have a say in the next leader as they will ***** it up.

scooby-tc

iTrader: (2)

Jeez its getting a bit like Prime ministers question time in here.

Im more of a monster raving loony supporter,i can relate to them

scoobynutta555

Thought Lord Such was dead

scoobynutta555

Davis supporting Howard is a done deal then. Wonder who else will have the guts to pop up for the fight? I dont think anyone will.

unclebuck

Bad news all round IMO

UB

carl

If they were going to do this, they should have done it 12 months ago. Now they've started getting ahead in the polls, good results in local elections, everyone sees Tony's mob screwing up but yet again they blow their chance

Hope that Oliver Letwin doesn't get in -- he gives the impression of being a stuck-up, blustering old buffoon.

ajm

looks like you beat ole pslewis to the gloat then!

All I can say is its a shame they never gave IDS a chance to show his leadership skills. He lost his job because cheap tatty papers made up crap and cheap thicky people bought them.

Still, he was a big man in defeat and, like him, I shall be continuing to pledge my support for the party.

so.... to pselwis... still voting conservative

NotoriousREV

I never thought I'd say this, but they should never have got rid of Hague.

Sith

Nice people in Politics never seem to succeed. ***** Hague and IDS both seemed like nice decent people, quite happy to have a pint with you, non smarmy slimey.

ajm

good point Sith, sadly it seems to make them easy targets for the tabloid dullards, and the lackwitted proletariat of this country always go for the cheesy false one promising to hand out free sweeties!

scoobynutta555

"He lost his job because cheap tatty papers made up crap and cheap thicky people bought them"

Hmmmm I thought he lost his job because he was crap at it. He won the support of about a third of Tory MPs 2 years ago. He then proceeded to make nil impact on the electorate even though Labour have been making a hash of things lately.

As for the Conservatives being ahead of Labour in the polls, I think thats a bit funny. I do recall them being ahead by 1% in one ultra Tory paper, but then they also had in the same paper Blair being in front of IDS as a wanted PM. Even with that, every other poll has had Labour in front since the past election. And any reasonably sane person would admit that the Conservatives are still a long way off winning anything.

Re local elections. Thats a far cry from a general election, plus a paltry 500 seat gain from a Labour party in comparitive (compared to past slick performances) crisis is no victory.

Howard will do better than the mistake appointments of Hague and IDS but he still wont win anything as hes too old, too right wing and people remember his past as an unloved member of a truely corrupt and listless government. Davis will succeed him, and will be in for a chance of winning in 2009. Anyone with an eye on being a PM in the Tory party would certainly would not want to be leader right now, its a poisoned chalice.

Conservatives will have to broaden their appeal and membership, alas, they are seen at the moment as a colostomy bag party (unwanted and full of ****)

[Edited by scoobynutta555 - 10/29/2003 10:58:23 PM]

ajm

and you thought that because you have believed what you have read and heard from the great media machine!

He was good at his job, he just wasn't a "golden child" as far as the press was concerned. His colleagues voted him out because they decided that he could never shake the image given to him, not because his ideas, policies or leadership skills were unsound.

And before you say that being "golden child" is all part of the job it is possible to capture the heart and minds of people and not be the best person to lead a country you know... check your history books...

scoobynutta555

AJM, classic case of head in the sand methinks. Wake up and smell the roses.

He was dumped by MPs because he was in danger of losing more ground to the liberal democrats, or indeed the labour party, thats not even mentioning winning a general election. If you think he stood even an outside chance of winning a general election against Labour then you have problems, get a reality check.

If he had sound ideas, policies and leadership skills then why would he be picked upon by the conservative press and other mediums? Blair is constantly battered by the press ruthlessly, yet this seems to have no effect on the voting public. The reason why this is the case is that there is no credible oppositon.

ajm

I am well awake and grasping the thorny rose of labour.

Not disagreeing - his chances were hampered by pathetic press campaigns and the fickleness of joe public.

for the above reasons. The fact that Blair being rubbished has no effect on SOME of the voting public is because they are thick and greedy.

If you had to choose between the two men who would you judge as being the most trustworthy and morally upstanding? I look at them both and I see one down trodden baldy and one falsely sincere loathsome press manipulator.

One looks better than the other, one promises more than the other, but I know which one I would place my trust in. Well... I would have done had I been given the chance.....

[Edited by ajm - 10/30/2003 12:04:42 AM]

scoobynutta555

"If you had to choose between the two men who would you judge as being the most trustworthy and morally upstanding? I look at them both and I see one down trodden baldy and one falsely sincere loathsome press manipulator."

You choose what you want. Think youll find that if there was to be a contest between the two "baldy" (your words not mine scroll up) would not only lose, but by a vast margin.

Are you implying that 90 conservative MPS whiose very livelehoods rely on strong leadership and electability, are simply wrong and misguided by dropping a loser? If so, I think the 1922 committee should be beating a path to your door to be a saviour for the party.

The reality is that the Tories will now choose an interim leader to stave off another drubbing in a general election, and will hope to have some inkling of a chance in the election after next.

I will bet £100 right now with you that the next general election will be a loss for the Tories whoever the leader is.

stephen emery

Who cares .

One sad party the Tory Lot

steve

ajm

Actually that wasn't a typo!

Shant be taking your bet because I happen to agree with you, but thats got nothing to do with the fact that IDS could have made a good leader had he not been a target of the press.

People like you believe what they read, and an honest man has been forced out because of it. I am not saying the 90 were wrong in voting him out - they had little choice under the circumstances.

Luke

Hope they all fall dead.....

Tell me one good possible leader from anyside???

Not one has any *****. Speaks their mind and would keep any promises made. They will all let this country slip into the Poo

Jye

ajm sounds more sincere and trustworthy to me than scoobynutta555

ajm for PM, scoobynutta555 sounds like a typical slimey Blairite

scoobynutta555

Honest and decent man?
-He has little credibility when calling for loyalty after working tirelessly to oppose John Major's government.
-Demoting party chairman and leadership rival David Davis, who was on holiday at the time.

-Imposing a three line whip over an obscure piece of gay rights legislation brought a small but high profile rebellion
-biographer Michael Crick exposed flaws in the CV of a man who had pledged to be spin-free.

"Normally, with any politician, there's a glut of people who'll reminisce and provide juicy anecdotes. But, in this case, people simply don't remember him," said Crick.

The report questioned Duncan Smith's claims to have studied at the University of Perugia in Italy and Dunchurch College of Management. Turns out he was in Durnchurch for a whole 10 days.

-Parliamentary standards commissioner Philip Mawer is now examining allegations surrounding the employment of his wife, Betsy, as diary secretary. Its been said to the committee that extreme pressure was put upon former
workers to sign documents about the affair that were outright lies

-Central Office has spent £500,000 in legal and associated costs in the regular purges of Tory aides.

So you’re saying to me that the fact that IDS is no longer in charge of the Tory party is because of the press? What utter rubbish. Tony Blair gets 10 times the bad press
as IDS ever had and yet he is still PM and a strong leader for his party.

I am not saying the 90 were wrong in voting him out - they had little choice under the circumstances.
Care to elaborate? He was voted out because they didn’t want him in the first place and he proved to be weak and ineffectual, icing on the cake for me is the ridiculous 'quiet man' stance.

Leslie

S Nutta555,

The last paragraph in your original post on this thread does a great deal to undermine your credibility.

Even more so when you have to resort to cheap insults in an effort to boost your argument, such as it is. Why should a man be vilified for his lack of hair? Would you like to explain that to all those Scoobynetters who have no hair either?

Les

scoobynutta555

The last paragraph in your original post on this thread does a great deal to undermine your credibility.

Even more so when you have to resort to cheap insults in an effort to boost your argument, such as it is. Why should a man be vilified for his lack of hair? Would you like to explain that to all those Scoobynetters who have no hair either?

Les

If you took the effort to read posts correctly before you commented then you would see that the paragraph in question is in quotes and was originally posted by another member. I havent had to resort to any cheap insults at all. Im not the slightest bit interested if he has hair or not, nor you or anyone else for that matter.

scoobynutta555

Also Les, care to explain what you mean by the last paragraph in my original post undermining my arguement and credability?

As a labour and Blair supporter, im, however, still saddened by the lack of any credible opposition. Our fuedal system of politics is being undermined, and I'd be glad to see a more robust Tory party, although I'm not ready for them to take any government role. They will have a chance I suspect in 2 elections time.