Chip

Want to buy a new Hi-fi. budget about £1200. Any advice, recomendations?

Chip.

Daz34

Are you just talking CD Player, Amp & Speakers?

Chip

Amp,Tuner, CD, speakers.

Chip.

dba

by asking here you will get everyones personal preferences which are worthless,compared to sitting in a dealer and listening yourself,even better at home

allow decent cash,at least £100-£150,if not more,for interconnects and cable,and you have a decent support to think of and speaker stands,so your budget is nearer £800,ish

as for the tuner,i would go to Ebay and pick up a Denon TU260 Mrk2 for £50 to save yourself a bit of cash and save the rest for new CD,Amp and speakers

Chip

Audio Excellence then is it?

Chip.

dr_ming

Interconnects = Biggest rip-off of the last decade!

dba

i saw a pair of 1mtr Nordost go for 2k in Ebay,so maybe you are right

a fool and his money.......

douglasb

Disagree about interconnects being a rip off (up to a point).

A few years ago, I upgraded the CD to amp cable. There was a definite improvement in the stereo "image". By this I mean that when listening to a track and if asked to point to where the guitar was coming from, with the standard cable I'd have pointed vaguely and said "About there." With the upgraded cable, I could point exactly and say, "There".

I can understand the physics of this. A cheap cable will have poor screening. Inductance will mean that a signal in one wire will "leak" into the second wire. The result will be that part of the signal from the left channel will appear in the right channel (and vice versa). Crosstalk will produce a poorly defined stereo image.

Assuming that you will be using analogue connections from CD to amp, it is worth paying a bit more for good quality interconnects.

At the same time, I also bought fancier speaker cable. I can't hear the difference with this, but a friend swears that it has improved the bass response on his system.

Doug

Daz34

Then I sugest you go to a PROPER hifi shop & tell them your budget. Take some cd's with you that you listen to alot & you THINK you know.
Remember that hifi components are only as good as the cables that connect them so budget for those as well. Make sure they know about the room your hifi will be in so that they can tailor the speakers to suit it.
I remember when I decided to buy a decent hifi & read a copy of What HiFI magazine & just picked what they recommended. I went along to a proper hifi shop & told them the components I wanted. They guessed that I had just read that magazine. They put the system together & I listened to it and it sounded pretty damn good to me. They then put together another similar priced system of components they recommended. The sound blew me away!
They said to sell magazines they always have to have something new and better on their cover & it is just bullsh1t basically.
Just let your ears do the choosing & don't be swayed by how many stars an amp gets in a magazine

Darren

[Edited by Daz34 - 11/30/2003 12:32:05 AM]

civictyper

If you've not read any mags recently then go and have a read to see what's currently about. Hi-fi mags aren't great but will give you an initial idea of what presentation each piece of kit will have.

Once you've compiled a shortlist then phone arround a few local dealers. Most places require that you book a demo and I advise that you do in order to get exactly what you want. Phoning will also give you an idea of the kind of shop you might be dealing with as some dealers are right ***** and will only want to know if you're spending at least £1200 on each component.

Wherever you go just make sure you take loads of your fave CD's and if you like a particular system then ask to take the demo system home for a bit. There you'll be able to listen without pressure and also see if it will suit your room.

Despite what's been said I wouldn't bother with a stand just yet (appart from speaker stands). I'm sure they're great but IMHO they're too bloody expensive and my Naim setup still sounds great in a solid wood Ikea cabinet. As for cables I'd go for £20ish interconnects and £2-£3pm speaker cable (don't go for bi-wire either). Cables are ok but don't work magic so don't get drawn into the whole bling thing.

Good luck

Ballistic

Decent interconnects and speaker cable can make a huge difference to the overall sound quality, just don,t get ripped off. I once met a bloke who ran his own company making interconnects and he told me the fancy cables can be made for a few pounds yet the market allows them to be sold for tens/hundreds of pounds, it's all to do with perceived value.
As other people have suggested take along some cd's you know well and let your ears do the judging. Try and get any equipment eg. speakers positioned as you will use them at home as this can make a big difference.
When putting a system together the overall sound quality will only be as good as the weakest link, keep the sound reproduction as pure as possible (my pre/power amp combi doesn,t have any tone or a balance control, yet the bass response and dynamic range is just awesome)
Most people will now tell you that bi-wiring has gone out of fashion yet IMO I think it's still worth experimenting with.
At the end of the day the bottom line is whether you can hear an improvement between one option and another. With budget kit the differences can be huge but higher up you start meeting the laws of diminishing returns.
Get some decent kit and it will last you for many years to come and you will enjoy your music, there's nothing worse than listening to something you can't stand the sound of.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

As far as interconnects/speaker cables are concerned, you need to look back at the old "Linn" adverts of the 70's, the ones that started the whole debate.
"Garbage in, garbage out" was the theme.
Basically, transferring that to cables, means that while a good cable can allow a good amp/cd/speakers to sound good, a good cable will NOT make a poor amp/cd/speakers sound good.

The converse also applies, with poor cables.

A decent hi-fi shop will demo different cables & interconnects for you, and you may be surprised at the results.

ALSO: if at all possible, get the stuff of your choice set up and demo'ed in your home B4 buying it. It may sound lovely in a shop demo room, but poor in your home.

Alcazar

dr_ming

Interconnects - Sure dump the cables that come with the equipment, these are often such bad quality that they are not even properly shielded. But spending more that a few tens of pounds is pointless.

I used to work for a company that imported and distributed theses cables (who will remain nameless, because they are still in business). We paid less than a dollar for a 1 metre interconnect with gold plated phono plugs and twin screened cable as thick as your little finger. Price in the shops - £25!

Interconnects have become the Emperor's New Clothes of the Hi-Fi world. Subjective opinions have been repeated so many times, and by so many 'experts', that they have become universally accepted as fact, even though there is absolutely no scientific evidence to support them!

For a more articulate (and long winded) rant on this subject, read the introductory paragraphs in Douglas Self's Audio Power Amplifier Design Handbook.

Edited to say: To buy good quality cables without the stupid mark-up (or less mark-up, at least), take a look at CPC.

Ming.



[Edited by dr_ming - 11/30/2003 10:02:28 AM]

Dracoro

I had a similar budget when I bought my separates last year. My setup sounds and looks great.

£370 Quad 11L speakers (rosewood - absolutely georgeous)
£370 Arcam A65+ Amp in silver
£370 Arcam CD62 CD player in solver
£110 Denon TU260 II tuner
£40 Cambridge Audio interconnects for CD-Amp
Already had plenty of decent speaker cable.
Total cost £1260

[Edited by Dracoro - 11/30/2003 12:38:40 PM]

ProperCharlie

chip - if you can i would have a listen to some cyrus gear, if it's whithin your budget. great sound and in my experience lasts forever. you may be able to find some decent stuff second hand or ex dem, too. linn classic is an all in one job that is well rated, and if you spend a couple of hundred on some decent speakers it should sound

workshy_fopp

Second the Linn Classik. £779 here

http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/p.../Product_ID/68 best to use Linn speakers with them though as they are 4ohms iirc.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

If you have a look at www.sevenoakshifi.co.uk, they have a section with Cyrus stuff ex demo, and second hand.
I'd second the comment on Cyrus stuff.
Alcazar

Silver Scooby Sport

iTrader: (15)

A good point to remember is you can choose the best from different makes, i have been building my system up for many years now and have
Albarry Pre-Amp
Roksan Power Amp
Ruark Sabre Speakers, Bi wired to the amps using Ixos Cables
Pioneer CD player
Yamaha Tape Deck
Rega Planer 3 with a Goldring Cartridge
Soundstyle Stands.

Each part has there own merits so its best to try to find a well balanced sound and then you can build on this in the future.
One point i would like to make is that i feel Britian makes the best Hi-Fi equipment in my experiance
I also suggest you book a listening room and go along with you favourites, thats what i have done.... when i included the Roksan to my list i ended up taking my system down in the back of my motor and setting it up in the listening room, then we hooked up several makes to see what sound they created..... Roksan was the winner

Cheers
Simon

hades

Agree with a lot of what's been said already - no substitute for trying things out and seeing what you like.
One point not really mentioned above is listening to the whole system you intend to buy, rather than just bits at a time. I've come across many instances where you get lots of very good kit, but put it together and it just doesn't sound right. Other systems with kit that is no better quality, but better matched sound a lot better. That doesn't necessarily mean buy from the same manufacturer - e.g. in my present system, I have an ATC power amp, but when I tried the ATC pre-amp (which is seriously good in many systems), it just didn't work as well as the pre-amp I already have.
My take on a few of the issues mentioned above:
Cables make a difference, no question, but you need to tailor your spend on them to the kit you've got. £2k cables make sense in £50k+ systems. However, say you had £2.2k to spend, you'd be foolish spending £2k on cabling and £100 each on an amplifier and CD, as £1k amp + £1k CD + £200 cables would sound better. I'd suggest spending ~10% of the value of your CD player on a phono cable, and 10% of the total cost of your amp and speakers on speaker cable.
Magazines can sometimes help determine a short list, but I have heard 5 star group test winners that I thought were lousy. Pioneer A400 amps spring to mind - always won group tests, I never liked them. I'm sure some people do like them - it's all very personal.

Edit to make the maths right!

[Edited by hades - 11/30/2003 4:03:22 PM]

csm007

spend most of your money on amp speakers cables there the most important at the begin you can up grade later with every thing else regards chris

scooby-k

British amps always sounded better than the pioneer ones. Don't know if that has changed.
Simon rega planer 3 that brings back memories, still got one in the wardrobe somewhere
ken

Ballistic

Third recommendation for Cyrus.
I agree with what's already been said; there's alot of excellent British kit available that quite often knocks spots of the Jap/American offerings.
Aportion your budget correctly to end up with a well balanced system.
Good luck with what ever you get.

Luke

Some of the new british stuff is nocked up in China etc...dont be fooled. Rotel make great amps. nad not as good as they use to be. marantz stuff great for the money if not a bit more...

Buy a good marantz Cd and go from there. Spend less than £40.00 on each interconnect and you will be fine.

Still reccon second hand is the best route if you know what you are doing.

paulr

1.Read What Hi-Fi back to front.
2.Go to a few dealers and have a chat and listen.
3.Spend 350 on amp,350 on cd player and 350 on speakers.Dont spend more than 100 on a tuner,keep the speakers near the amp and cd,get 2 metres of cable at say £3 a metre from richer sounds and say 5-10 on an interconnect from amp to cd player.

Finally,get some decent speaker stands, and large speakers give out a bigger sound.

Thats what i'd do.

ProperCharlie

personally i don't think there is that much to gain from What Hifi as they seem more interested in TVs than HiFi these days. Also don't agree that large lounspeakers sound bigger. Check out Acoustic Energy AE1s or what i have at the moment - Cyrus CL70s.

Apart from that - carry on as y6ou were

Silver Scooby Sport

iTrader: (15)

Scooby-k....... yes matey all driven by a rubber band !!

Another point to think of is how to make the best of the system when you have it installed and running, these don't really cost anything as it is to do with location placement of speakers and what the system sits on.

damn this is bringing back some memories

My speaker stands have metal spikes on the top and bottom and they are hollow i have about 7Kgs of lead shot in each of them really sits them firm
cuts out reverb nicely
Not the best just to stand components on top of each other, separate shelves are best, you can place Blue Tack on the feet to cut vibrations..... so many little tweeks to be made the list could go on and on, hhhmmmm thinking of it i have 2 wallmounted turntable stands some where i shall have to dig them out for the for sale section

Memories lol
Simon

Edited to say " Mordant Short " nice range of speakers defi worth a serious look at.


[Edited by Silver Scooby Sport - 11/30/2003 8:44:45 PM]

paulr

Also don't agree that large lounspeakers sound bigger

We'll have to disagree then.

ProperCharlie

and the evidence for your theory is?

Delboy2

I don't agree with that comment either. Smaller speakers can give the same depth and clarity of sound as larger designs, its all about postioning and the acoustic characteristics of the room they are being set up in. Small speakers on decent 'filled' spiked stands can easily equal a floor standers capability if they positioned correctly.

hades

As a general rule, small speakers are incapable of going as deep (low frequency) as larger speakers, simple physics. Im not denying the AE1s - to quote the example above - were fantastic speakers when first brought out (and still pretty useful these days), but you do need a certain size of cabinet if you're going to do proper things at 30Hz. That's not to say that you need huge speakers, or that 'cos a speaker is big, it will sound big, or that a large standmounter can't go deep enough, or that small speakers aren't good. As everything else, listen and pick what suits you. Personally, my (large, standmounted, but not cheap) Ruark Equinoxe's do the job just fine.