Luke

This has got to be a mad bad idea.....

First the captain might want to order them off the plane.So what then???
the training hasnt been that good..
Highjackers will be even more extreme and will start killing passengers. I'm the highjacker.... I just arrange the team around the cabin. And shoot the first passenger in front of me. Then the next ..
Telling everyone i will stop when the marshals identify themselves.

Then after.. search all the adult passengers to make sure.

I believe the new method will be to smuggle remote/timed bombs onto the plane or just to shoot it down.



[Edited by Luke - 12/30/2003 12:40:05 PM]

Scooby96

Why not train the pilots / co pilots to be the marshalls - that way the hijacker wont shoot them as they'll crash, next?

boxst

Hello

Well, it depends. Certainly introducing weapons on a 'plane is a bad idea, even if the "good guy" has them.

As for the terrorists shooting passengers, contrary to popular belief it's quite hard to smuggle large amounts of ammunition on a 'plane, so they only have a few shots.

Steve.

Adrian F

I believe the some countries have been doing this very successfully since the 70's.

imlach

Why not train the pilots / co pilots to be the marshalls - that way the hijacker wont shoot them as they'll crash, next?

Err...because, as seen on 9/11, the hijackers are prepared to die for their cause. Even if they don't hit their target, I'd imagine bringing down a jet is still seen as a worthy cause for them. Also, the 9/11 hijackers could fly the planes....


[Edited by imlach - 12/30/2003 12:46:28 PM]

Daz34

To be honest I thought they were already doing this after 9/11.
I understand that the crew cabin door has been beefed up to keep people out. If something goes down, why can't the pilot introduce a knock out agent into the aircon and then land. I know the hijackers can stick a mask on but there are plenty of agents that can be absorbed through the skin as well.

TelBoy

Cynics would argue that it's been introduced merely to reassure passengers and boost/protect airline business.

Does anyone know of a case where sky marshalls have made a significant impact during a flight?

Scooby96

Err...because, as seen on 9/11, the hijackers are prepared to die for their cause

So theyd shoot the pilot anyway!

Scooby96

Dont Sky Marshalls have a good record on Israeli airlines?

Luke

Stave depending on the gun and calibre they might have a minimum of lets say 6 shots. If there is maybe 3 x HJ's then thats a few bullets flying around. The problem is will the marshal be prepared to sit and watch innocent passengers been shot??


its not going to work.

The only Airline to realy have its sorted is El-Al. Why ??? years and years of experience. training that is far far better than the current UK methods. And the best airline security in the world.

[Edited by Luke - 12/30/2003 1:01:58 PM]

Scooby96

Stick a few soldiers on all flights - that'll sort out the men from the boys.

I would like to see any hijacker start shooting passengers with plane nosediving at 60 degrees!

Luke

I would expect any plane that has been highjacked to be shot down should it be enroute to a major city etc. Some planes have secret in cabin CCTV relayed to the Airline so that Police etc can see what the current situation is inside.

Its easier to shoot it down when it is landing or taking off. As long as the terrorist makes their point they dont care...

Luke

B2Z

they did and they didnt laugh..... It means they have to do their job even harder.

rogp

Have to agree with Bravo.

There should be no need for armed guards on a plane if the passengers are properly searched and scanned etc before boarding.

Arming someone, is an incentive to tackle them and therefore a recipe for disaster.

^Qwerty^

I thought they were on random flights rather than each one. So in that case, they could end up shooting everyone and find there was never a marshal onboard?

imlach

Some planes have secret in cabin CCTV relayed to the Airline so that Police etc can see what the current situation is inside.

Hmm.....how is it secret then?

Luke

imlach...Stop telling everyone!!

Qwerty; Thats it... when will the marshal give up???? will he allow innocent people to be killed. Doubt they could just sit there.

It will be the Number one priority of any HJ's to try and ID the marshals using any methods.

beemerboy

planes should be made of clear perspex, and passengers only allowed to wear swimming cossies.

that should stop guns being smuggled in.

BB

ChristianR

iTrader: (1)

I agree with a comment above, if any trouble in the main cabin, pilots flick a switch and sleeping gas comes on, only problem is if the attackers bring any gas masks etc.. but then that would be down to security at the airport..

TelBoy

What about those raving pervs who take gas masks with them for pleasure, eh??

Luke

Not in a million years.
First it would cause a minor panic then what about the airline been sued. You stop the problem before it gets to the plane.

scooby nutter

Dont you think that the sky marshalls will be working for terrorist groups anyway?

They have Illegal immigrants working at major security places!!

Im sure a terrorist can get some fake documents etc ,so then he's on the plane with a shooter with no questions asked!!
Its going to be one big ***k up!!
I would rather be on a flight with no guns rather than one with "marshalls"with guns!

Sort out Airport security first !!!

Dunc

rr_ww

Its just more posturing by this dumb **** government of ours! I can imagine Blunkett and co sitting around thinking.

"Well we cant find any WMD in Iraq, so lets scare the population onto a new subject. Erm... I know lets tell them theres a specific threat of Hijacked planes now. That we need Sky Marshall on many transatlantic flights.... That'll make people feel were winning the war on terrorism wont it?"

OK, so how much as the threat increased since say June 03. surely it was higher around the time the war in Afghanistan started from the cell based Al Queda fighters. Maybe when we started the Iraq conflict perhaps. Well not really.

Surely that time the Government sent Tanks down to Heathrow, so they could shoot down any hijacked flights over London (what good is a land based Tank outside an airport if a Terrorist wants to crash a plane into a populated business area!!!)
And lets be honest if you want to hijack a plane and crash it into London. Surely a better bet is to try the Luton to Scotland shuttle flight. Less people and almost certainly no Marshalls!

This "new" threat is just wheeled out whenever the gment wants to be seen to be doing something wonderful. The very fact that there are no doubt hundreds of threads likethis around the contry on the various different BBs show we arent falling for it!

Its the same for the US Government as well. Remember the other day, when they stopped several Air France flights from leaving for the states. This was due to a "Specific threat" So if it was so specific. i.e. Some of the names must have been on some form of list. Why were there no arrests of these people in France?

I appreciate that they work in Israel, and they havent had a hijacked plane for a very long time. Partly because of the Marshall and partly due to increased terminal security.

But we ARE NOT at the same level of threat. Look to the countries that feel opressed by the west. Palestines, Iraqis, Afghans, Iranians etc etc etc. They are always chanting "DOWN WITH AMERICA" The troops from The British Army that went to Iraq will tell you that the British were welcomed far more easily than the Yanks.


[Edited by rr_ww - 12/30/2003 4:53:07 PM]

ajm

I just wander what the real possibility of someone armed with a stanley knife, or even a gun has of taking down a plane now that people know what they are capable of. The reason it happened before is because the staff were told to just comply, but this was based on the premise the hijacker would also want to remain alive.

I would like to think that now, if someone tried it on, they would be bundled to the ground by the passengers - I certainly wouldn't hold back given the choice of being shot or thrown into the side of a building at 200mph!

Buckrogers

The air marshals should be armed with stun guns, tazzer's or those cattle prod thingys . No guns should be allowed on planes what so ever.

scoobydooooo

what about their horses ? where are they going to put THEM EH ?

matty01

Luke , yeah what would a security proffesional know about these things i'm sure you'd show em the way to go,

rr_ww

In the Toilet obviously! Thats why whenever you want to go its always engaged


I fear this thread is about to decend into muppetdomn

scoobydooooo

sorry , couldn't resist !!