Best Digital Camera for Shutter Speed
30 December 2003, 11:28 PM
#1
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Hey up,
Been thinking of upgrading my Fuji S304,
What is the best non SLR digital with the quickest shutter speed at the moment?
Seen Fuji have got some new models out is the S7000 the quickest?
Looking to spend £500-£600
Any one got one of these?
Or are there any other makes quicker?
Been thinking of upgrading my Fuji S304,
What is the best non SLR digital with the quickest shutter speed at the moment?
Seen Fuji have got some new models out is the S7000 the quickest?
Looking to spend £500-£600
Any one got one of these?
Or are there any other makes quicker?
30 December 2003, 11:53 PM
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Why do you want a really fast maximum shutter speed? Are you planning to shoot with a wide aperture straight into the sun? Or trying to capture bits of flying molten debris?
1/2000 is plenty fast enough to stop action in all but the most extreme conditions. I think I might have used 1/4000 once, shooting into the sun.
I suspect you could be looking for the wrong thing here - please forgive me if I'm mistaken. Are you actually wanting the lowest delay between pushing the button and taking the picture (the shutter lag)?
1/2000 is plenty fast enough to stop action in all but the most extreme conditions. I think I might have used 1/4000 once, shooting into the sun.
I suspect you could be looking for the wrong thing here - please forgive me if I'm mistaken. Are you actually wanting the lowest delay between pushing the button and taking the picture (the shutter lag)?
31 December 2003, 12:43 AM
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I might have the wrong thing
I can cope with the lag I have got used to it, but some of my shots are still blured,
The S304 has 1/1500,
I am taking Rally car shots, I have got shots by cutting the speed, on corners, coming towards me at a distance etc, The last few rallys I have been to the cars are a lot quicker and even using the the same methods all my shots have been blured so I just presumed that the cars are to fast/shutter speed is to slow?
The S304's best setting is the sports mode, so you havent got full manual control over the shutter speed
If there is another magical setting please tell
I am no expert if I am looking for the wrong thing help would be appriciated
Thanks
I can cope with the lag I have got used to it, but some of my shots are still blured,
The S304 has 1/1500,
I am taking Rally car shots, I have got shots by cutting the speed, on corners, coming towards me at a distance etc, The last few rallys I have been to the cars are a lot quicker and even using the the same methods all my shots have been blured so I just presumed that the cars are to fast/shutter speed is to slow?
The S304's best setting is the sports mode, so you havent got full manual control over the shutter speed
If there is another magical setting please tell
I am no expert if I am looking for the wrong thing help would be appriciated
Thanks
31 December 2003, 01:10 AM
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Just looking on my A80, the sports mode only gives you 1/60 where as the manual mode gives upto 1/2000.
Whats the fuji give you in manual mode?(if it has one?)
[Edited by RichiW - 12/31/2003 1:31:26 AM]
Whats the fuji give you in manual mode?(if it has one?)
[Edited by RichiW - 12/31/2003 1:31:26 AM]
31 December 2003, 02:05 AM
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OK, shutter speed will be a factor in freezing the movement but is it more like the speed of the autofocus / how fast the camera can snap into and keep the moving car in focus?
Does the shutter only release when the camera thinks the subject's in focus? (supposedly more idiot-level orientated for normal snapshotters
)
Can you use manual focus and focus on a distance where the car will be as it passes you so that you press the shutter release a fraction before it gets there? (AKA pre-focusing)
Are the pictures sharper if you use flash? How good are you at panning as the car goes by and can you keep up?
A few questions to get you started...
Does the shutter only release when the camera thinks the subject's in focus? (supposedly more idiot-level orientated for normal snapshotters
)Can you use manual focus and focus on a distance where the car will be as it passes you so that you press the shutter release a fraction before it gets there? (AKA pre-focusing)
Are the pictures sharper if you use flash? How good are you at panning as the car goes by and can you keep up?
A few questions to get you started...
31 December 2003, 03:33 AM
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2000th is closer to crash test dummy than rally car driver.
Ultimately although a camera may be more capable of snapping faster, there are one hundred other factors that will affect the picture and what you're trying to create.
Firstly the one you've the least control over - light. Unless its in very plentiful supply a quick shutter means a dark picture.
Secondly and most importantly, ambience. Fast cars are supposed to *look* fast. As a case in point, this fairly 'classic' track day shot. Not killer but it has the makings of a nice pic:
Shutter speed is 1/90th of a second. Not particularly quick but it means two things, I'm able to expose at a smaller aperture (ie. deliberately let less light in) and thus depth of field and thus focussing become less critical and secondly, I have movement! The wheels have motion blur, as does the tyre wall. I was tracking the car though, its position relative to the centre of the picture stayed as constant as my steady hand could get it. It certainly didn't deviate enough in 90th of a second to distract the viewer too much.
This one was slightly quicker, at 1/180th:
This is a nicer photo but that has little to do with shutter speed. I didn't want something as slow as the Impreza photo as there's no real panning movement and thus no opportunity to induce motion blur. The main components of this photo are the lovely looking classic Ford, a (very) slight sideways lean on the car, some nice sunlight and shadows cast on to the road and me lying in a ditch! The latter probably making the largest difference!
My advice would be don't become a slave to numbers. Spend the cash on sturdy shoes and pick your locations wisely!!
[Edited by Ian Griffiths - 12/31/2003 3:34:26 AM]
Ultimately although a camera may be more capable of snapping faster, there are one hundred other factors that will affect the picture and what you're trying to create.
Firstly the one you've the least control over - light. Unless its in very plentiful supply a quick shutter means a dark picture.
Secondly and most importantly, ambience. Fast cars are supposed to *look* fast. As a case in point, this fairly 'classic' track day shot. Not killer but it has the makings of a nice pic:
Shutter speed is 1/90th of a second. Not particularly quick but it means two things, I'm able to expose at a smaller aperture (ie. deliberately let less light in) and thus depth of field and thus focussing become less critical and secondly, I have movement! The wheels have motion blur, as does the tyre wall. I was tracking the car though, its position relative to the centre of the picture stayed as constant as my steady hand could get it. It certainly didn't deviate enough in 90th of a second to distract the viewer too much.
This one was slightly quicker, at 1/180th:
This is a nicer photo but that has little to do with shutter speed. I didn't want something as slow as the Impreza photo as there's no real panning movement and thus no opportunity to induce motion blur. The main components of this photo are the lovely looking classic Ford, a (very) slight sideways lean on the car, some nice sunlight and shadows cast on to the road and me lying in a ditch! The latter probably making the largest difference!
My advice would be don't become a slave to numbers. Spend the cash on sturdy shoes and pick your locations wisely!!
[Edited by Ian Griffiths - 12/31/2003 3:34:26 AM]
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31 December 2003, 11:47 AM
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Ian
Excelent advice thank you very much, it always makes me smile when someone answering one persons question helps other, like me understand things more.
Cheers
Si (a camera newbie )
Excelent advice thank you very much, it always makes me smile when someone answering one persons question helps other, like me understand things more.
Cheers
Si (a camera newbie
)
31 December 2003, 04:20 PM
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Fine advice from Ian
Motorsports are hard to photograph, no doubt about it - although they're actually easier than many other sports because at least the action is usually fairly predictable. There are two approaches:
The first is to choose the highest shutter speed you can, given the limits of the available light, the maximum aperture of your lens and the sensitivity of your film or sensor. Typically you might choose a sensitivity of ISO 400, aperture of f/2.8, and get a resulting shutter speed of about 1/500 sec. This is nothing to do with the maximum shutter speed available on the camera - it's the correct speed to give a correctly exposed photo. If you choose a speed that's too fast, your picture will be underexposed, and you don't want that.
Even with a speed of around 1/500, you should be able to freeze the motion of a car quite happily unless it's very close and travelling across your field of view. So, you shouldn't be too concerned about motion blur, but you do need to be able to focus in the right place at the right time. Very few cameras will be able to maintain focus on an approaching car, so a better bet is to pre-focus in advance on where the car will be.
The downside of this approach is that photos can be rather dull and lifeless - the car and background will both be sharp, the wheels will appear still, and the photo won't give any feeling of motion.
For this reason I prefer the second approach, which is to deliberately use a slower shutter speed to blur the wheels and background. You need to pan to keep the car sharp in the frame, which requires practise, but the end results are much more dramatic.
Here's an extreme example - shutter speed of 1/90 sec:
So, you'd do well to look for a camera which gives manual control over shutter speed (I normally use 1/125 to 1/250), a wide aperture and low noise. Maximum shutter speed is only really relevant if you want to shoot extremely bright subjects.
HTH
Andy.
Motorsports are hard to photograph, no doubt about it - although they're actually easier than many other sports because at least the action is usually fairly predictable. There are two approaches:
The first is to choose the highest shutter speed you can, given the limits of the available light, the maximum aperture of your lens and the sensitivity of your film or sensor. Typically you might choose a sensitivity of ISO 400, aperture of f/2.8, and get a resulting shutter speed of about 1/500 sec. This is nothing to do with the maximum shutter speed available on the camera - it's the correct speed to give a correctly exposed photo. If you choose a speed that's too fast, your picture will be underexposed, and you don't want that.
Even with a speed of around 1/500, you should be able to freeze the motion of a car quite happily unless it's very close and travelling across your field of view. So, you shouldn't be too concerned about motion blur, but you do need to be able to focus in the right place at the right time. Very few cameras will be able to maintain focus on an approaching car, so a better bet is to pre-focus in advance on where the car will be.
The downside of this approach is that photos can be rather dull and lifeless - the car and background will both be sharp, the wheels will appear still, and the photo won't give any feeling of motion.
For this reason I prefer the second approach, which is to deliberately use a slower shutter speed to blur the wheels and background. You need to pan to keep the car sharp in the frame, which requires practise, but the end results are much more dramatic.
Here's an extreme example - shutter speed of 1/90 sec:
So, you'd do well to look for a camera which gives manual control over shutter speed (I normally use 1/125 to 1/250), a wide aperture and low noise. Maximum shutter speed is only really relevant if you want to shoot extremely bright subjects.
HTH
Andy.
31 December 2003, 09:35 PM
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I wanted to have a digi camera that gave me full manual control as I couldn't be bothered with my old SLR (wasted shots, getting film developed etc) but didn't really want to stump up digiatl SLR prices, so I had a look in a few mags and the Fuji Finepix S7000 got very good reviews everywhere. I have purchased one and must say I'm very impressed. Full control over what you are doing, and total point and shoot useability for when you want a snapshot.
The inability to change lenses is a bit of a drawback, but for the money it's a cracker.
Geezer
The inability to change lenses is a bit of a drawback, but for the money it's a cracker.
Geezer
31 December 2003, 10:22 PM
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Sorry to be a camera thickie (but I am 
), could someone explain in simple terms what changing the ISO speed, shutter speed, exposures, aperture actually do and combinations of the above?
Ian has explained more than I knew already and actually makes sense to me I've tried reading my camera manual but didn't make too much sense. I suppose I ought to try different settings as it's digital so won't waste film. Would be interested to know though why I'm changing these values and what I would expect them to do.
Even a link to a website for basic info would be appreciated
I have a Canon Powershot S40 which has enough gubbins for me, but I don't use most of it All this photography stuff recently (and my first entry) has got me interested
(apologies for the diversion on the thread)
), could someone explain in simple terms what changing the ISO speed, shutter speed, exposures, aperture actually do and combinations of the above?Ian has explained more than I knew already and actually makes sense to me
I've tried reading my camera manual but didn't make too much sense. I suppose I ought to try different settings as it's digital so won't waste film. Would be interested to know though why I'm changing these values and what I would expect them to do.Even a link to a website for basic info would be appreciated
I have a Canon Powershot S40 which has enough gubbins for me, but I don't use most of it
All this photography stuff recently (and my first entry) has got me interested (apologies for the diversion on the thread)
31 December 2003, 10:55 PM
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Hanslow
I did have an excelent linkthink it was agfa but i've lost it
The following is all as i understand it
ISO = sensitivety of film or sensor (for digital) 800 being more sensitive than 100, the more sensitive the less time the shutter needs to be open and/or larger apperture rating needed
Apperture rating = size of the opening when shutter release pressed, the smaller the f number the larger the opening so f2.8 will let more light in than f8
Shutter speed = Length of time the shutter is open, so a photo in daylight wont need that long but one at night will need longer to see the available light.
DOF = Depth of field, and something i don't wholly understand except to say having a low f stop say 2.8 and a quick shutter speed will cause a more blurred background creating a better DOF i'm guessing it has something to do with speed of light etc and distance from objects but not a clue
Si
I did have an excelent linkthink it was agfa but i've lost it
The following is all as i understand it
ISO = sensitivety of film or sensor (for digital) 800 being more sensitive than 100, the more sensitive the less time the shutter needs to be open and/or larger apperture rating needed
Apperture rating = size of the opening when shutter release pressed, the smaller the f number the larger the opening so f2.8 will let more light in than f8
Shutter speed = Length of time the shutter is open, so a photo in daylight wont need that long but one at night will need longer to see the available light.
DOF = Depth of field, and something i don't wholly understand
except to say having a low f stop say 2.8 and a quick shutter speed will cause a more blurred background creating a better DOF i'm guessing it has something to do with speed of light etc and distance from objects but not a clue Si
31 December 2003, 11:01 PM
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Thanks Si (especially the not a clue bit 
)
From what I've just read on How Stuff Works, I take it it's basically all about letting the right amount of light in? As a newbie though, I can't understand if you have a longer exposure time (shutter speed?) to let more light in, why do you also need to set the aperture (f thingy) if that also controls the amount of light. Then with the ISO thingy, which controls light sensitivity
I guess some of it is for night time stuff where there is less light around, but still slightly confused. Never understood the F stop either. There is already one F number, so why the other? How do you tell the difference?
What would be nice would be a site that showed changing one parameter at a time and how it affects the picture under different lighting conditions. Does such a thing exist?
Told you I was a beginner If this is best continued on a new thread (maybe competition related?) then I don't mind (I have a habit of going off topic on other people's threads 
)
One thing, if as I mentioned the aperture, ISO and shutter speed all affect the amount of light being let in, what makes you change one value over another. Why would you increase the aperture size as opposed to increasing the ISO (on a digi, obviously not so easy on an optical) or decreasing the shutter speed?
[Edited by Hanslow - 12/31/2003 11:04:58 PM]
) From what I've just read on How Stuff Works, I take it it's basically all about letting the right amount of light in? As a newbie though, I can't understand if you have a longer exposure time (shutter speed?) to let more light in, why do you also need to set the aperture (f thingy) if that also controls the amount of light. Then with the ISO thingy, which controls light sensitivity
I guess some of it is for night time stuff where there is less light around, but still slightly confused. Never understood the F stop either. There is already one F number, so why the other? How do you tell the difference?
What would be nice would be a site that showed changing one parameter at a time and how it affects the picture under different lighting conditions. Does such a thing exist?
Told you I was a beginner
If this is best continued on a new thread (maybe competition related?) then I don't mind (I have a habit of going off topic on other people's threads )One thing, if as I mentioned the aperture, ISO and shutter speed all affect the amount of light being let in, what makes you change one value over another. Why would you increase the aperture size as opposed to increasing the ISO (on a digi, obviously not so easy on an optical) or decreasing the shutter speed?
[Edited by Hanslow - 12/31/2003 11:04:58 PM]
31 December 2003, 11:09 PM
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OK, quick summary:
Shutter speed is the easiest to explain. It simply refers to the amount of time for which the film (or digital sensor) is exposed to light.
The aperture is the hole through which light enters the camera. The bigger the aperture, the more light can enter in a given time. So, if you make the aperture twice as big, you can use a shutter speed that's twice as fast.
ISO sensitivity is the digital equivalent of film speed - it refers to how sensitive the film is to light. ISO 200 film is twice as sensitive as ISO 100, ISO 400 is twice as fast again and so on. The major difference here is that digital cameras let you program this on a per-shot basis, whereas with film this is a property of the chemical composition of the emulsion and can only be changed by using a different film.
Aperture and shutter speed together determine the exposure - the total amount of light which enters the camera. The brightness of the final photo depends on the exposure and the sensitivity of the film (or sensor) used.
Trade-offs that determine the choice of film speed, shutter speed and aperture:
Faster films are grainier than slow ones, and using a high ISO sensitivity for a digital shot gives a noisier image. So, it pays to use as slow a film (or low a sensitivity) as possible to maximise image quality.
Fast shutter speeds are good for stopping motion and for reducing blur due to hand-held camera shake. Slow speeds can be used to deliberately induce motion blur (as above), and are required when light levels are low.
Wide apertures let in plenty of light and give limited depth of field - ie. only things very close to the object on which you focus will be sharp, those behind and in front will be blurred. This effect may or may not be desirable, depending on the subject - and lenses capable of wide apertures tend to be big, heavy and expensive. Small apertures, on the other hand, let in less light but give greater depth of field.
Andy.
Shutter speed is the easiest to explain. It simply refers to the amount of time for which the film (or digital sensor) is exposed to light.
The aperture is the hole through which light enters the camera. The bigger the aperture, the more light can enter in a given time. So, if you make the aperture twice as big, you can use a shutter speed that's twice as fast.
ISO sensitivity is the digital equivalent of film speed - it refers to how sensitive the film is to light. ISO 200 film is twice as sensitive as ISO 100, ISO 400 is twice as fast again and so on. The major difference here is that digital cameras let you program this on a per-shot basis, whereas with film this is a property of the chemical composition of the emulsion and can only be changed by using a different film.
Aperture and shutter speed together determine the exposure - the total amount of light which enters the camera. The brightness of the final photo depends on the exposure and the sensitivity of the film (or sensor) used.
Trade-offs that determine the choice of film speed, shutter speed and aperture:
Faster films are grainier than slow ones, and using a high ISO sensitivity for a digital shot gives a noisier image. So, it pays to use as slow a film (or low a sensitivity) as possible to maximise image quality.
Fast shutter speeds are good for stopping motion and for reducing blur due to hand-held camera shake. Slow speeds can be used to deliberately induce motion blur (as above), and are required when light levels are low.
Wide apertures let in plenty of light and give limited depth of field - ie. only things very close to the object on which you focus will be sharp, those behind and in front will be blurred. This effect may or may not be desirable, depending on the subject - and lenses capable of wide apertures tend to be big, heavy and expensive. Small apertures, on the other hand, let in less light but give greater depth of field.
Andy.
31 December 2003, 11:13 PM
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Thanks Andy
Between you and Si, I think I have now grasped what I couldn't from some photography books (admittedly about 15 years ago) and from my pants manual
Or maybe it's the Tequila, Vodka and Red Bulls
I'm off out to play with my camera tomorrow
Between you and Si, I think I have now grasped what I couldn't from some photography books (admittedly about 15 years ago) and from my pants manual
Or maybe it's the Tequila, Vodka and Red Bulls
I'm off out to play with my camera tomorrow
31 December 2003, 11:20 PM
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when in manual mode on my camera if i adjust the iso, apperture or shutter speed i see the differences on the screen.
With regards to why being able to adjust shutter and app, 2 excelent examples of this in the motion photo comp, first on is the stream (your pic ), to create a sense of movement the shutter was opened for 1/8 of a second everthing but the water is focus'd but although the water is focus'd it's also moved over that time, but to stop the photo from being over exposed the apperture needed to be smaller (f4) to let less light in for that given time.
The second is Andy's walnut, he wanted to freeze the shot to do this he needed a quicker shutter speed 1/500th and would of needed a larger apperture but because he's got a fancy flash he didn't
Si
With regards to why being able to adjust shutter and app, 2 excelent examples of this in the motion photo comp, first on is the stream (your pic
), to create a sense of movement the shutter was opened for 1/8 of a second everthing but the water is focus'd but although the water is focus'd it's also moved over that time, but to stop the photo from being over exposed the apperture needed to be smaller (f4) to let less light in for that given time.The second is Andy's walnut, he wanted to freeze the shot to do this he needed a quicker shutter speed 1/500th and would of needed a larger apperture but because he's got a fancy flash he didn't
Si
31 December 2003, 11:25 PM
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Thank you gentlemen
Me, I'm a happy bunny Time to start experimenting
Amazing, I'm understanding things.....must drink more Tequila
[Edited by Hanslow - 12/31/2003 11:26:28 PM]
Me, I'm a happy bunny
Time to start experimenting Amazing, I'm understanding things.....must drink more Tequila
[Edited by Hanslow - 12/31/2003 11:26:28 PM]
01 January 2004, 12:26 AM
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Actually flash photography is a whole new can of worms, but it's late now and I've been at the beer. More waffle tomorrow. Probably tomorrow afternoon...
Happy New Year everyone
Andy.
Happy New Year everyone
Andy.
01 January 2004, 03:23 AM
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I'm still learning myself. From here mostly:
http://www.photo.net/making-photographs/
I'll have a proper read/reply of everyones new comments when I'm more suitably equipped to do so tomorrow - all the best everyone
http://www.photo.net/making-photographs/
I'll have a proper read/reply of everyones new comments when I'm more suitably equipped to do so tomorrow - all the best everyone
01 January 2004, 05:56 PM
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Right, back to normal after a big steak & chips lunch
There's a 'virtual SLR' on the web at http://www.webslr.com/; this allows you to make changes to aperture and shutter speed and see the effect on a selection of photos. The demo version is free and might possibly be useful.
The 'f/stop' refers to the size of the aperture. 'f' stands for the focal length of the lens - the property of the lens which determines the field of view (ie. is it a wide-angle, normal or telephoto lens.
An f/stop of, say, f/2, means that the aperture has a diameter which is half the focal length of the lens. f/4 means that the aperture is 1/4 of the focal length and so on.
The lens always has an iris, or diaphragm, behind it - this iris closes up during the exposure and determines the aperture. When the iris is fully open, this usually corresponds to an aperture of about f/1.8 for a prime (fixed focal length) lens, or about f/4 for a zoom lens.
This means of measuring the size of the aperture has the interesting consequence that the total amount of light entering the camera remains the same for a given f/stop as the focal length varies. So, for example, if an aperture 10mm across is used with a 50mm lens, that corresponds to f/5.0. If we keep a 10mm aperture, changing to a 100mm lens gives a reduced field of view (ie. it's telephoto lens), so less light in total gets into the camera. However, if we keep it at f/5.0, this now means the aperture is 20mm across. This increased aperture compensates for the loss of light.
Andy.
There's a 'virtual SLR' on the web at http://www.webslr.com/; this allows you to make changes to aperture and shutter speed and see the effect on a selection of photos. The demo version is free and might possibly be useful.
The 'f/stop' refers to the size of the aperture. 'f' stands for the focal length of the lens - the property of the lens which determines the field of view (ie. is it a wide-angle, normal or telephoto lens.
An f/stop of, say, f/2, means that the aperture has a diameter which is half the focal length of the lens. f/4 means that the aperture is 1/4 of the focal length and so on.
The lens always has an iris, or diaphragm, behind it - this iris closes up during the exposure and determines the aperture. When the iris is fully open, this usually corresponds to an aperture of about f/1.8 for a prime (fixed focal length) lens, or about f/4 for a zoom lens.
This means of measuring the size of the aperture has the interesting consequence that the total amount of light entering the camera remains the same for a given f/stop as the focal length varies. So, for example, if an aperture 10mm across is used with a 50mm lens, that corresponds to f/5.0. If we keep a 10mm aperture, changing to a 100mm lens gives a reduced field of view (ie. it's telephoto lens), so less light in total gets into the camera. However, if we keep it at f/5.0, this now means the aperture is 20mm across. This increased aperture compensates for the loss of light.
Andy.
02 January 2004, 12:10 PM
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Sorry for the delay, bloody NTL been **** up since new years eve [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Anyway thanks for all the advice.
I cant find out what the speed setting are in the auto setting, in the maual setting I can only set the aperture (f2.8).
I have been looking over some of my photos that I am not happy with and comparing them to some I am, to see if any of what has been mentioned could be the cause. Yes some of the ones taken on brighter days are better, but there are still a few with poor light in normal wet and horrible rally weather
So back to my original question, it seems that I would be better going for a camera with more manual control over the settings than one quoting top notch shutter speeds
Anyway thanks for all the advice.
I cant find out what the speed setting are in the auto setting, in the maual setting I can only set the aperture (f2.8).
I have been looking over some of my photos that I am not happy with and comparing them to some I am, to see if any of what has been mentioned could be the cause. Yes some of the ones taken on brighter days are better, but there are still a few with poor light in normal wet and horrible rally weather
So back to my original question, it seems that I would be better going for a camera with more manual control over the settings than one quoting top notch shutter speeds
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28 September 2015 12:47 PM