Iwan

For 85mph in a 70mph on the M4, near to the toll booths for the severn bridge in South Wales.

Yes i'm a muppet, yes i'm putting my hands up to it.

Will this be a fixed penalty? What are the guidelines these days for whether it's a fixed penalty, or whether they ask you to appear in court?

And finally, assuming it's fixed penalty - what's the damage these days? Last i heard it was 3 points and £60.

[Edited by Iwan - 1/2/2004 1:24:14 PM]

Huw

I got the standard 3 pts and £60 recently for 37 in a 30, and a freind got the same for 52 in a 40. Percentage wise, you are no worse, but who knows.
Do you know that the Hamiltons strung it out so long, that when they went to court they both claimed 'not to remember' who was driving the car!!!
They got off because the police need an individual to prosecute!
Good luck.

Iwan

Hmmm, cheers for the reply. I'll just have to wait and see i suppose. It was revenue van which filmed me from the front as i passed under a bridge, so my 'weasling out of it' options are limited.

Hopefully if i put my hands up they'll just give me the fixed penalty fine and 3 points.

The annoying thing is the van was in a really obvious place, and highly visible.

The really annoying thing is that the laser detector wasn't plugged into my Road Angel at the time - if it had been i might have had a bit of warning to slow down!

Doh!

jjones

3pts and £60 fine

plenty of room for expansion on the licence

corradoboy

Interesting reading :-

Here
Here
Here
Here

Good luck.

Iwan

Cheers all!

SimonJM

I do like that "safespeed" link

Boro

iTrader: (1)

Got mine on the 11/12/03 - 76 in a 60, i think 68 was the limit for a fixed penalty.

hedgehog

It would be well worth your while to consider putting up a fight. Remember if it gets too hot for you then you can plead guilty at any time and take the £60 and 3 points and run.

Idris Francis has a very important appeal coming to the High Court in the early part of the year to establish the precise legal position regarding not signing the NIP. You could certainly string your case out until then buy not signing now. It takes them months to reply etc. etc. and many people are asking that they await the result of the Idiris case. This route is very worthwhile.

Also, keep the envelope the NIP came in as if it was posted 2nd class then you are in the clear. This is a point of law and so a fairly simple situation. However, if this is the case then don't communicate with they in any way until you see a solicitor.

The PACE arguement as discussed on the pepipoo site is also having the most amazing success. Nearly everyone who returns one of those PACE letters that Mika has drafted has had a reply in the form of a "Notice of Discontinuance." To be honest I don't think even Mika is sure just what it is about his letter that has them totally on the run.

As The Times reported recently the courts are now clogged with people fighting the cameras and many people are mounting successful defences. In turn we have also seen the Government starting to soften it's line as it can see that the cameras lose them a vote with every flash, that they are putting the court system under pressure and that they are turing the middle class against the police. As the cameras actually increase the number of deaths on our roads you are in a position to do your bit without too much bother to yourself. I would suggest that you sign up to the mailing list on the Safespeed site for a few days before you decide what to write on your NIP.

Oh, and there has been some recent suggestion that having civilians operate the talivans might be illegal! I haven't seen a detailed treatment of this yet but it holds hope for yet another concrete defence.

Good luck.

hedgehog

To follow up my earlier comments about it not being legal for a civilian to operate a talivan etc.:

I've done a little research and it seems that there is going to be a test case based upon this defence at some point this month. As it will be in the Mags. Court the intention is to get an appeal to the High Court on the point of law in order to set precedent. (i.e. they WANT to lose in the Mags. Court so that precedent can be set.)

I would expect that the defence will be based around the fact that the law says something along the lines of "a speed measuring device is used to corroborate the opinion of A CONSTABLE that a vehicle is speeding." The term CONSTABLE is the one used in the law, though I paraphrased the rest, and is clearly defined. I would expect the argument to be that a civilian isn't a constable under the Road Traffic Act. In view of the complexity of this the Mags. Court might refer it directly to the High Court without reaching a decision.

So, anyone who has been done or who is currently in the system should keep an eye on this angle. Should this be established then it is a big enough hole to drive a bus through, at 45 in a 30.

I wonder, though don't know the details off hand, if this might also impact upon fixed cameras as often they are "operated" by civilians in terms of day to day running.

Oh, and if you work as a civilian talivan operator then now might be a good time for a review of your career choice, though it does have the potential for lots more overtime for the police.

Ru$$Rip

Hedgehog - can you send me a direct link to the PACE letter drafted by Mika.

Cheers

jk100

I think I was caught in exactly the same place on New Year's Day. The van is not that easy to spot as you are concentrating on reading the overhead gantrys for the Toll lanes etc... at the time.

My laser detector went off - but these are virtually useless I believe as they will already have got your speed. What is interesting is the distance at which my detector went off - more than half a mile I think. They must use quite a powerful zoom lens on the camera in order to read the plates.

waggy doo

iTrader: (1)

Hi
One of my engineers got caught exactly same place 92mph.Mmm think that going to be a ban.

hedgehog

Mika's PACE letter should be available here:

http://pepipoo.com/NewForums2/viewtopic.php?t=638&highlight=pace+letter&sid=0e4b 9ba15cdbc67f1b6071df15ba5405

Well worth a read even if you just want a good laugh and how badly they are messing up :-)