S Page

MODS PLEASE LEAVE IN SCOOBYNET GENERAL!!!!! THIS IS OF IMPORTANCE TO ALL DRIVERS.

Anyone that lives in the East midlands who watch the local news may remember the story of the bloke from Codnor (near Ripley) Derbyshire, who was refusing to pay a speeding fine as he reckoned that the police were just using the speed cameras as revenue raisers, well they took him to court and on this mornings news they said that the case had been seen and the magistrate has given him a 2 week jail sentence, of which he has to serve a week of definitley.
is this justice gone wrong or what???
2 weeks imprisonment for not paying a £60 fine, i think they were trying to make an example of him here to try to deter other drivers doing the same.
This really makes my blood boil, especially when i read the local newspaper and theres a story virtually everyweek about some judge or magistrate that has let yet another prolific drug taking burglar or car thief off without jail time because they deserve a second/third/fourth chance.

That 2 week sentence is more than you would get for carrying out the following crimes:

Drunk driving
Driving while banned
Driving without license, insurance, mot

What really p###es me off is the already banned drunk driver that hit me head on a few years ago got 120hours community service.

Sorry for going on but it is sheer stupidity.

Nexuas

This countries judicial system sucks. Prison is an easy ride, if and when a hardened criminal is sent there. And Joe public who makes one mistake etc, seams to get hit hard. Makes you mad just to think about it[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Fatman

It's a deterrent effort to try and protect their revenue stream.

Jay_bee

iTrader: (1)

Know where you're coming from.

A couple of years ago, I was stopped and given a producer, about 10 minutes later, the same copper caught up with me, stopped me and told me that there was an outstanding warrant for me. Let me tell ya, I aint no crim, so I was pretty damn confused, the policeman realising that Im not a scally then let me go saying that I should produce my docs first thing in the morning and clear up the warrant. Next day, got to the copshop, produced my docs, no probs, mentioned the warrant to the person on the desk, next minute, theres a policeman stood next to me getting the cuffs out!!

Anyway, turns out that about 12 months previous, I forgot to produce my docs and thats what the warrant was for. For my troubles, spent the morning in a police cell, then the whole afternoon in a cell at court until they saw me at 3.45pm, was cuffed to a guard whilst infront of the magistrate (I was stood in a barred dock type thing), they asked why I hadnt produced, told them I must have just forgotten about it (I did get pulled over at 2.45am) cos I had probably stuffed the producer in the glove box but I could prove I was insured, car MOT'd etc. I was infront of the magistrates for 5 minutes, they gave me 2 weeks to produce the docs and cleared the fine.

Talk about overkill, just for not producing docs, got near enough a full day in the cells and treated like I had just mugged yer grannie at knife point. NO NEED!!!! [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

J

[Edited by Jay_bee - 1/14/2004 4:40:06 PM]

OllyK

The problem is that the initial sentence was passed - £60 fine. If you fail to pay a fine they will come down on you.

If a drug dealer is fined for dealing (unlikely I know) and doesn't pay the fine, then he would probably get jailed for not paying the fine. Seems daft that not paying a fine is considered more serious than the original crime in many cases.

owbow

the (hard) drug dealer who lived on my estate (who had previously been inside for GBH hence it was no problem) was sentenced to 10 days for non-payment of £2800 fines, and was only in for 3 days! so he effectively earned £900ish a day while he was in, cos his fines were written off!!!

stupid system

Owain

chiark

He broke the law, and then tried to tweak the nipples of the legal system.

The legal system does not like having its nipples tweaked. So yes, this is an example to others not to be so bloody stupid!

Despite the request, this is moving to Non-scooby related as it is not specifically aimed at scoobies.

Regards,
Nick.

Strider

They are really frightened at any challenge to the system! Hence he was lucky he wasn't hung, drawn & quartered!

[Edited by Strider - 1/14/2004 3:23:12 PM]

TopBanana

Anyone on here been to prison? Must be pretty easy for just a few days.

NACRO

as long as you don't get chivved or raped while you are there.

Scooby96

I reckon I'd be very smelly by the time I came out - I certainly wouldnt go anywhere near the showers.

Would also be suffering with severe sleep deprivation too.

Definitely wouldnt want to go down (excuse the pun) even for one night!

zip106

...and then some **** only gets 18 months for raping a 13 month old girl....yeah, good old British justice system.

[Edited by zip106 - 1/14/2004 4:46:31 PM]

[Edited by zip106 - 1/14/2004 4:47:32 PM]

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

But surely he still has to pay the initial 60 quid fine aswell, a custodial sentance is not in lieu of the initial fine is it? it is an extra punishment for trying to buck the system.

johnfelstead

Jay_bee, you should have been locked up too. Maybe then you would take seriously your responsibilities to the law and when asked to produce your documents within the seven day period you would do so and save everyone the time and expense of processing the work involved in producing a warrant.

Driving without your documents is a criminal offence, you are given a waiver for seven days before being considered for prosecution. I would like to see this 7 day waiver removed, that way the ******* who drive uninsured wont take the **** so much and would be dumped in the back of a van and taken to the station and locked up. Every other country i have driven in doesnt allow a waiver, you have to carry your documents.

Forgot my ****. You just couldnt be bothered to take the matter seriously. Thanks for wasting tax payers money and police time.

MGJohn

The British Judicial system is the best money can buy. It provides rewarding and hugely overpaid employment for many. Gravy train hardly describes it accurately. It is no longer about truth or fairness let alone justice. If you are both guilty and rich, then you can buy a result from the best that money can buy. Anyone who needs diagrams has not been paying attention for years.....

But, be warned ... overlook renewing your car tax for whatever reason and you will be automatically fined, drawn and quartered whilst those really guilty go on their merry unapprehended way. From just about every aspect, the system in all it's forms has become parasitical on the basically honest who are now the more rewarding 'easy meat' for the system. The real Criminals are far too much like hard work and merely score the same on the bean counters cards.

Only kidding .... or, am I?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I agree with a previous post about the establishment being scared: they MUST protect this gravy train, at all cost.

Look at that poor guy who got 12 months in prison for attempting to set fire to a scamera.
He did no damage, and it was his first offence: 12 months

Meanwhile, Joe Scally gets done for burglary, receiving, caught with drugs, shoplifting, and ignoring a rehabilitation order, and gets ANOTHER rehabilitation order.(Taken from last weeks'local rag).

British Justice: Fek off!!![img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Alcazar

Jay_bee

iTrader: (1)

johnfelstead


At the end of the day, it was a genuine mistake and I was sorry. I wasnt trying to say that I was innocent or anything like that, I quite happily admitted that I was in the wrong by not producing. The point I was trying to make was that being treated like some mugger or drug dealer etc was a little bit over the top, at the end of the day, I think the tax payers money could be better spent trying to find murderers and rapists rather than bangin up a motorist who has forgotten to hand their docs in

Oh... and I pay taxes as well, so u could say the bit it cost to process this and the amazing banquet that the court laid on for me was paid for by me.

J


[Edited by Jay_bee - 1/14/2004 5:28:20 PM]

S Page

MGjohn too true, its much easier and rewarding (financially)for them to go after the easy meat.
This new car tax fine isn't going to effect the thousands of drivers who don't even register the car with dvla and i'm sure if their not bothered with buying insurance and having mot's then a fine won't bother them either, just another bit of paper to line the budgie cage with.

johnfelstead

I disagree, you broke the law, so you should expect the consequences of your actions, or in this case inactions. To complain about being treated like a criminal is absurd, because you treated the law with contempt.

If you weren't stopped, eventually you would have had someone on your doorstep aresting you, yet more wasted time and money that could have been used to catch the mugger or rapist you are so keen to mention.

You cant have it both ways, complaining about the law and the system when you are part of the problem stopping real work being done. When you are stopped by the Police and informed of your duty to produce your documents, the last thing you should do is forget about it, maybe thats a reflection on your opinion of the Police and the law and the important role they play?

Police must be sick of hearing sob stories like yours where you "forgot". I bet you dont forget again.

MGJohn

>>Driving without your documents is a criminal offence<<

Since when? Carrying documents is asking for trouble. The practice of carrying them or leaving them in the car if it became widespread would be an invitation to get mugged for them. Then the *******, having left you mugged or maybe dead, can produce 'iffy' documents later whenever called to do so. Bring on ID cards .... Toot Sweet!!!!!!

In 40 odd years of driving I've never carried documents in my car, always producing them when requested within the seven days. That is a reasonable procedure and should be there for all time.

Driving licences, MoT or Insurance certificates, Service History documents et al have a value within criminal circles.

When my wife picked up her car the day it was serviced, the car's documents were placed in the door pocket for stamping. At the time, the window was smashed and all documents taken. There's probably a crooked 'clone' running around right now. It's a matter of time before the 'clone' commits an offence then we can expect a knock on our door and production of cuffs. Good job my wife was not in the car at the time. Unlike a neighbour who whilst waiting at the lights, had window broken and knife held to throat, was robbed of all documents, forced to withdraw money from cash machine, car taken and beaten up for good measure. Those ******* were never apprehended. Never used to be that way.

Cheats, Criminals and those employed in all aspects of the law prosper. The really worrying thing is that I can see no prospect of things ever improving, only getting worst. Still all those heinous Road Tax dodgers will be sorry. Then we can all feel safe in our beds, Subaru keys under the pillow, one eye open all the time and police only a month away when needed..... you think I'm kidding ... well maybe a just a bit....

Worth repeating: "I can see no prospect of things ever improving, only getting worst".......

chiark

Is it? I never carry my insurance documents, or even my driving license. I have never been stopped in 13 years of driving either...

Jay_bee

iTrader: (1)

Well, good for you john, I can only assume you are a civil servant of some variety (hmm... cant guess what! ) or just a very moral and upstanding pillar of your community. I dont see you preaching to everyone else who has commented on the state of the judicial system. But at the end of the day, you're entitled to your opinion as is everyone else.
Oh and just for your info, the duty sergeant even agreed that it was extreme for the actual "offence", if I recall, I think the word he used was "..silly.." (and before you say anything, no, he wasnt referring to me )

johnfelstead

it is, read what the producer says. It is only a waiver and producing the documents stops you being charged for the offence.

"Production of documents. You MUST be able to produce your driving licence and counterpart, a valid insurance certificate and (if appropriate) a valid MOT certificate, when requested by a police officer. If you cannot do this you may be asked to take them to a police station within seven days. Law RTA 1988 sects 164 & 165"

m18use

Jhon he only forgot to produce its not crime of the century is it I think hes trying to make a point not take the pi55
Are you saying you have never forgot anything

Jay_bee

iTrader: (1)

John

regarding the matter of leaving docs in the car, I was always under the impression this wasnt advisable because of the implications of the car being stolen with them in (as mgjohn was saying). Is this right?

johnfelstead

None of the above, i just think that UK society is full of people who dont take personal responsibility seriously anymore, and by your actions you show yourself as one of those people. We all make mistakes but you seem to be moaning that you were caught and treated unfairly, which is absurd. You are lucky they didnt lock you up for hours until they had time to process you because they were busy catching real criminals.

Jay_bee

iTrader: (1)

Er John...
...I think you'll find that being locked up from 9.30am until 4.00pm constitutes more than one hour, so, how was I lucky that they didnt lock me up for hours?????
Being cuffed to a guard whilst in the court, Im hardly likely to do a runner am I ???????
If It had been a friday afternoon and I didnt get seen by the magistrate that day, I would have been locked up all weekend, totalling 4 days being locked up for not producing. Would that have been necessary in relation to the punishment people get for far worse crimes???

[Edited by Jay_bee - 1/14/2004 6:06:19 PM]

[Edited by Jay_bee - 1/14/2004 6:08:27 PM]

tiggers

Now I know you've been smoking 'something'

tiggers.

johnfelstead

i have never forgotten anything that related to my responsibilities to the law. Maybe thats because i take matters seriously when i am dealing with the Police. Pity other people dont, if they did then maybe they would have more resources available to fight "real" crime.

Where have i said leave documents in the car? It's not hard to carry your driving licence, MOT and Insurance with you. If the Americans can do it i am sure we can manage. You dont have to carry your V5 document.

The point is the law states you have to carry the documents and the 7 day producer is a waiver for not being prosecuted for the offence, technically they could arest you there and then if they suspected you were not able to produce the documents.

johnfelstead

should have been overnight Jay.