STI-NUTTER

hi all

right i got caught speeding(53 in a 40 zone), but the thing is i know that speed camera was there so i know i slowed down for it. so what are my options? and are there any ways left that i can avoid it cause there used to be not signing it and etc but are those paths blocked or are some still available.

advice is appreciated folks

thanx
K

s6pra

I could tell you to try a lot of things but don't want you coming after me if you get fined.

One of them you already said, there is no law that makes you sign the nip when it comes in. Another one is you can ignore it as they never send it through recorded delivery, meaning they got no case in court if they try to do you.

But if you do want to go to court I suggest you see what your options are. You can try pleading not guilty but don't send the NIP back! They will assume you are guilty! That's why you should call whatever phone number that shows up on the NIP.

Now for the ditch tactics!
You can go and check out the area and see if there is a side road that has no speed limit signs. If you find one, you could say you just came out of that road and didn't see any speed limits and it seemed safe to do 50mph at that time of the day.

Or you can get a friend or relative to say you were driving a long distance and you can't remember who was driving at that time on that day. This usually works because they can't fine 2 people at once for the same offence :P

Anyway, I'll shut up now!

All the best,
Peter

hedgehog

The unsigned route may still work for you and is certainly still working for many. Idris Francis has an appeal coming before the High Court in the first part of this year which will decide if the form must be signed. Until that is decided the route is open and is working well for some but you do risk an MS90 endorsment on your license if you are found guilty for not supplying the information. If Idris loses you will have no grounds to appeal against this conviction. Certainly worth investigating.

Do not ignore the NIP. The law is structured such that if the police say they sent you the NIP then it is deemed to have been served. I know it's mad but it's all about raising cash and that's the most cost effective way to do it. Also, don't lie, not ever. There are enough weaknesses in their cases that telling a fundamental lie is likely to work against you rather than for you.

You should, in any circumstances, request the evidence. A chap was recently done for 51mph in a 30 but when he got the photos and did the maths he was actually travelling at 13mph!!! If you are sure you slowed down then fight long and hard to get the photos and make sure you get both so you can do your own calculations. This assumes that it was a Gatso.

There are lots of people fighting their own cases without solicitors. As you will be aware representation will be expensive and you will need someone with a knowledge of traffic law. However, if you stand to lose your license, for example, then it will be worthwhile to get a solicitor. Make sure you get someone with experience of traffic law.

The Paragraph 4 defence, that you don't know who was driving, is certainly working well for some people but, again, I would caution against using it if you do know who was driving. For a start you have said in your post that it was you and this is a voluntary confession under PACE. There are too many good defences for you to risk your position by telling a lie.

There is also a very good PACE argument that Mika is using to good effect. You can get the details on his pepipoo web site. He has prepared a letter which seems to magically make them go away, for reasons that I think even Mika isn't sure on. Take a look at his site:

http://www.pepipoo.com

Also drop by the Safespeed site and join up to the unsigned forms mailing list. It will give you lots of hope and good ideas:

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/unsigned.html

While you are at it you may also like to join the ABD who are supporting Idris and others in the fight against speed enforcement for revenue generation:

http://www.abd.org.uk

Iwan

I had a NIP recently, 85 in a 70 - i owned up and got SP50, 3 points and £60.

But at the time i wondered as the NIP wasn't sent recorded delivery, what actually happens if it doesn't get delivered to you? Apparently a shedload of mail goes missing in the UK every day, and my local posties are forever putting correctly addressed mail in the wrong letterboxes.

Also what about if you go away on holiday or are working overseas when the NIP arrives, does the law give any leeway for this kind of thing?

s6pra

I have paid £120 for an alleged £60 fine!

Couldn't be bothered to fight it because I was really pressed for time (been working hard on the website) and thought it's only £60.

48mph on a 40mph limit which seems ridiculous as it was an empty Dual Carriage way designed to sustain safe speeds of 70mph. What a joke.

But it boiled down to £35 in costs plus £85 fine even though I pleaded guilty. Didn't get any points though.

They aren't pulling that stunt with me again.
Peter

hedgehog

I take your point Iwan but what you must remember is that the cameras are about making cash. Durham is the only county in the UK without them (actually they have one mobile one but it is not a major part of their traffic enforcement operation) and they record 43% fewer casulties per vehicle mile than the UK average. Durham also issued 32% FEWER tickets for speeding last year than in the previous year!

When you consider it purely in the context of making money then the fact that the law allows them to just pop the NIP in the post to you makes sense. You and I both know that there is a chance that you will never see it but it would be costly and inefficient for them to have to have a policeman deliver your NIP. So, the law says that if the police claim to have posted it then you are deemed to have received it. If you don't reply then you are failing to supply the information under section 172 and you will be taken to court and you will be found guilty of ignoring something you never saw in the first place. Hard luck, hand over your cash.

The law allows you 28 days to return your NIP and I assume they think this reasonable to allow for holidays etc. Beyond that time you then fall foul of section 172 and will be done for failing to supply the information. Get your wallet out.

However, the easy money is starting to dry up for them as more and more people fight their corner. In one county alone it is estimated that 9,000 motorists are defending their position in the courts. Of course the partnerships don't want you to know that as it encourages more people to join the fight and this makes their "easy money" more difficult to come by.