Islam - what's the deal?
29 May 2004, 02:15 PM
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Islam - what's the deal?
Remember the Freemasons thread a while ago? Lots of people asking questions about masonry and a few answering them?
Lets' see if we can do the same thing with Islam. No trolling, baiting or personal insults please. But it would be really cool if someone could come along and explain some of the misconceptions (or maybe they aren't - who knows?) about Muslims and Islam.
I'll start.
What's the difference between Sunni and Shia?
Is it true that Muslims see it as their duty to convert the world to Islam, and that they are entitled to use violence to do so?
Why are Muslims so passionate about their religion when compared with most others?
That'll do me for starters, I think...
SB
Lets' see if we can do the same thing with Islam. No trolling, baiting or personal insults please. But it would be really cool if someone could come along and explain some of the misconceptions (or maybe they aren't - who knows?) about Muslims and Islam.
I'll start.
What's the difference between Sunni and Shia?
Is it true that Muslims see it as their duty to convert the world to Islam, and that they are entitled to use violence to do so?
Why are Muslims so passionate about their religion when compared with most others?
That'll do me for starters, I think...
SB
29 May 2004, 02:47 PM
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i am an ismaili shia muslim - probably the least radical sect u could find - our leader is the Aga Khan (race horse owner/car lover/playboy).
i just watched rambo iii last night, made me think a little bit, the little kid in that movie would be the right age to be an al-qaeda operative right now and considering the pain and suffering during his young age, i dont blame him really! but then again it was just a movie. ok stop rambling zak.
i just watched rambo iii last night, made me think a little bit, the little kid in that movie would be the right age to be an al-qaeda operative right now and considering the pain and suffering during his young age, i dont blame him really! but then again it was just a movie. ok stop rambling zak.
29 May 2004, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Bonehead
"Paging Moses........Would Moses please return to NSR as we've questions for you"
UB
Trending Topics
29 May 2004, 05:05 PM
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S Bradley..I will attempt to answer one of your 3 Qs....
Muslims DO NOT see it as as their duty to convert the whole world. This a myth. Howvere as with all religions their is a duty to convey the message of Islam to the world...whether or not people accept is entirely a different matter.
Re: the use of violence by Muslims, the vast majority of this violence is currently in Palestine, Checnya, Kashmir, Iraq and Afghanistan. You will note that none of this violence is related to converting anyone. Rather the Muslims in these countries will point to the fact that they are ina state of foreign occupation and therefore theirs is a fight for independence and self determination.
In all honesty S Bradley, your 3 Qs are so broad that they cannot possibly be answered sufficientlly on a forum, especially on a forum such as this which appears to have been taken over by the trolls.
Muslims DO NOT see it as as their duty to convert the whole world. This a myth. Howvere as with all religions their is a duty to convey the message of Islam to the world...whether or not people accept is entirely a different matter.
Re: the use of violence by Muslims, the vast majority of this violence is currently in Palestine, Checnya, Kashmir, Iraq and Afghanistan. You will note that none of this violence is related to converting anyone. Rather the Muslims in these countries will point to the fact that they are ina state of foreign occupation and therefore theirs is a fight for independence and self determination.
In all honesty S Bradley, your 3 Qs are so broad that they cannot possibly be answered sufficientlly on a forum, especially on a forum such as this which appears to have been taken over by the trolls.
29 May 2004, 07:08 PM
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The violence part comes down to interpretation of Jihad. As far as I am aware/was taught a Muslim is only permitted to commit acts of violence if it is in the name of their religion under the guise of Jihad (known to us as holy war). The problem here is that there is no real boundaries to Jihad. So someone like OBL can claim he is acting under Jihad when he blows up US innocents as he sees the US as a direct threat to Islam. Jihad is to be at war with the enemy where the enemy is deemed to be a threat to Islam and its beliefs/ways/existence. With no boundaries set it leaves the term of Jihad to be openly abused by extremists to claim their acts are in the name of their so claimed religion.
Disclaimer:If the above is wrong then I apologise to our Muslim friends here but its what I understand it to be. I am only too happy to be corrected and educated in what the correct definition of Jihad is as this is what this thread is about - education
Disclaimer:If the above is wrong then I apologise to our Muslim friends here but its what I understand it to be. I am only too happy to be corrected and educated in what the correct definition of Jihad is as this is what this thread is about - education
29 May 2004, 08:21 PM
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b2z - what you say sounds about right, although i don't know that much about it. fundamentalists of any persuasion will use their beliefs to justify their abhorent actions. e.g. fundamentalist christians killing doctors who perform abortions, and pregnant women who seek them.
nice, huh?
nice, huh?
30 May 2004, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by **************
The violence part comes down to interpretation of Jihad. As far as I am aware/was taught a Muslim is only permitted to commit acts of violence if it is in the name of their religion under the guise of Jihad (known to us as holy war). The problem here is that there is no real boundaries to Jihad. So someone like OBL can claim he is acting under Jihad when he blows up US innocents as he sees the US as a direct threat to Islam. Jihad is to be at war with the enemy where the enemy is deemed to be a threat to Islam and its beliefs/ways/existence. With no boundaries set it leaves the term of Jihad to be openly abused by extremists to claim their acts are in the name of their so claimed religion.
Disclaimer:If the above is wrong then I apologise to our Muslim friends here but its what I understand it to be. I am only too happy to be corrected and educated in what the correct definition of Jihad is as this is what this thread is about - education
Disclaimer:If the above is wrong then I apologise to our Muslim friends here but its what I understand it to be. I am only too happy to be corrected and educated in what the correct definition of Jihad is as this is what this thread is about - education
From what I have read Islam is in many ways not so different from Christianity in it's main principles, one true God, 10 commandment-like main principles(edited to say I don't mean they have their own 10 commandments, but the values expoused are similar). Do people know that Jesus is a prophet in the Koran (Qur'an, is there a best way to write this in English?)
[slight-off-topic]
Also for the sake of balance we should remember that Christianity has been aggressively pushed onto the people's of the world over the centuries. The export of Chistianity to the continents of South America and Africa was often bloody affair.
['slight-off-topic]
Last edited by Brit_in_Japan; 30 May 2004 at 10:52 AM.
30 May 2004, 01:18 PM
#14
Originally Posted by Sbradley
Why are Muslims so passionate about their religion when compared with most others?
SB
SB
Then there's millions of Catholics throughout the world whose zealousness in following their religion surpasses that of the muslim.I think what we (in Brittain) have to understand is that on a day to day basis we are NOT generally a passionately religeous country. Weeks/months/years can go by between thoughts and visits to churches or places of worship, so when confronted with people (of any religion) that worship on a daily basis and have the structure woven tightly into their way of life and community, then we are wary, such as we always are over something that is different to our normal way of life/experience.
Religion is a generally good intentioned thing but it is a way of exerting control over a large amount of people. It has grown out of man's desire to be led and fear of death. This power can unfortunately be abused
30 May 2004, 01:36 PM
#15
Does anyone else, like me think its all a load of mumbo jumbo, I respect other people beliefs but it doesnt mean I have to be a believer and do the church/mosque/synagogue thing. All the time spent praying could be better spent doing, please lord help the starving in Africa, er wouldnt you be better doing something constructive to help them ?
I am not completely without some sense of power and wonder, I cant imagine that the whole of creation is a complete coincidence but all the establish religions seem to hark back to a very different time, that whole Adam and Eve thing, sorry try again, sit down, stand up, sing a song, all good for a bit of community spirit.
Never been the joining type, thats why I dont get the whole football tribal thing.
Basically whats needed, and what religion gave was some sense of responsibility and a moral code to live by, I have come up with my own based on my upbringing but looking at society a lot of people dont seem to have one, because organised religion in the west is in decline people arent getting the right and wrong, what goes around comes around thing drummed into them. No one religion is evil (well perhaps Satanism, is it actually a religion ?) but I know some right ***** that go to church and some lovely Muslims who worship every day yet are going to prison for a massive mobile phone scam, perhaps it doesnt work so well after all.
There was a car near my dads that had the reg plate J1HAD !
I am not completely without some sense of power and wonder, I cant imagine that the whole of creation is a complete coincidence but all the establish religions seem to hark back to a very different time, that whole Adam and Eve thing, sorry try again, sit down, stand up, sing a song, all good for a bit of community spirit.
Never been the joining type, thats why I dont get the whole football tribal thing.
Basically whats needed, and what religion gave was some sense of responsibility and a moral code to live by, I have come up with my own based on my upbringing but looking at society a lot of people dont seem to have one, because organised religion in the west is in decline people arent getting the right and wrong, what goes around comes around thing drummed into them. No one religion is evil (well perhaps Satanism, is it actually a religion ?) but I know some right ***** that go to church and some lovely Muslims who worship every day yet are going to prison for a massive mobile phone scam, perhaps it doesnt work so well after all.
There was a car near my dads that had the reg plate J1HAD !
30 May 2004, 02:03 PM
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thats what gets me when people claim their religious and go and do sinful stuff , hypocrites, i dont claim to be religious , i fall short and i try my best, i luv woman i want a few wives,, is that a crime 
and lol jacko , mate i tried to get that private plate, the b@stard took it , it went , it was sad , i even tried to get celtic, my uncle bought that before me, i was angry i was a teenager at the time, my uncle aka my dads cousin was in the papers too when he outbid even the celtic legends for the private plate
i couldnt get moses
but i got m33ses i wish it had an 0 in it , would have been good
and lol jacko , mate i tried to get that private plate, the b@stard took it , it went , it was sad , i even tried to get celtic, my uncle bought that before me, i was angry
i was a teenager at the time, my uncle aka my dads cousin was in the papers too when he outbid even the celtic legends for the private platei couldnt get moses
but i got m33ses i wish it had an 0 in it , would have been good
30 May 2004, 03:19 PM
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to me, in my obvious ignorance it seems so sad that 3 religeons which obviously have the same routes (Abraham),all purpose to be "the way" and that man should live in peace and do no harm to others, yet they have all been corrupted by political zealots who preach death.
what short memories the israeli's have, if they believe they can behave like the ***** and soviets did to them.
how can bush claim to be a christian, how can bin laden translate 2 books which promote peace into acts of terror?
what the **** are we on?
what short memories the israeli's have, if they believe they can behave like the ***** and soviets did to them.
how can bush claim to be a christian, how can bin laden translate 2 books which promote peace into acts of terror?
what the **** are we on?
30 May 2004, 03:34 PM
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nice way to put things vandal nice one
yep islam, christianity and judaism is suppose to be the same religion
jews made it a racial religion and made out their the chosen and superior race , christians they was no such thing in jesus type, romans defiled the real teaching of jesus whos name wasnt jesus but easu or eesa in arabic or yeshua, st paul was in bed with the romans and brought in pagan teachings.
and christ is a greek word meaning christos as in annointed or appointed one.
we believe all humans are born muslim as in the quran, thats why some people say they arent converts but reverts
nice oneyep islam, christianity and judaism is suppose to be the same religion
jews made it a racial religion and made out their the chosen and superior race , christians they was no such thing in jesus type, romans defiled the real teaching of jesus whos name wasnt jesus but easu or eesa in arabic or yeshua, st paul was in bed with the romans and brought in pagan teachings.
and christ is a greek word meaning christos as in annointed or appointed one.
we believe all humans are born muslim as in the quran, thats why some people say they arent converts but reverts
30 May 2004, 03:41 PM
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have a read at this, good article
http://www.islamonline.net/English/N...rticle05.shtml
http://www.islamonline.net/English/I...ce/index.shtml
http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/eng...hFatwaID=16844
http://www.islamonline.net/fatwaappl...FatwaID=112408
http://www.islamonline.net/English/N...rticle05.shtml
http://www.islamonline.net/English/I...ce/index.shtml
http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/eng...hFatwaID=16844
http://www.islamonline.net/fatwaappl...FatwaID=112408
Last edited by moses; 30 May 2004 at 03:43 PM.
30 May 2004, 03:44 PM
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I truly believe we are just too dumb as a race to work out that what is before us in these "books" is a useful way of living, dont try and pin a special meaning, hidden somewhere within
it's easy really
treat people as you would like to be treated,if you can't do good- don't do harm,
and realise that you may not like everyone, but they have as much right to life as you, so don't set yourself up as judge
not a hippy but - peace!!!
and the corner is on me moses
it's easy really
treat people as you would like to be treated,if you can't do good- don't do harm,
and realise that you may not like everyone, but they have as much right to life as you, so don't set yourself up as judge
not a hippy but - peace!!!
and the corner is on me moses
Last edited by ||VaNDaL||; 30 May 2004 at 04:19 PM.
30 May 2004, 04:21 PM
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TurboMan and Brit...U r true in what u say...
The subject of Islam can b viewed as either a VERY complex set of rules or a simple way of life. In arabic ISLAM, in everyday terms means..."WAY OF LIFE", and a VERY important part of this is the "spiritual" aspect
I am a Muslim and born and bred in London
Islam is not here to conquer the world, terrorise it or anything that the "Americans" want YOU to believe....Its all complete CR*P.
As far as OBL is concerned do u not think he/they are ONLY defending what they (The Americans) are trying to steal...their homes, wealth etc etc ALL to meet their worldly consumption of OIL. I am not defending their actions but trying to understand their motives WITHOUT Corrupt info from the Americans...CNN lol
In fact it is forbidden for any muslim to attack anothers belief, faith, way of life etc etc.
It ALL boils down to interpretation of a set of rules as laid down by GOD (In arabic we say allah).
Islam and Muslims, as believers, are to portray the message to the world as to the purity (in every sense of the word) of this way of life. Whether or not an individual, group of individuals, community and society at large listen, understand and implement it, is their decision.
ALL this propaganda against muslims and the way they treat their women, punishment against thieves...i.e. chop their hands off is XTREME to say the least
There are guidelines and PRE-REQUISITES to all rules except those that are exceptional like prayer, just 1 example...
Islam is the fastest growing "religion"....Supposed to read fastest growing "Way Of Life" as this is what Islam Means.....
Probably explains why the Americans attack it so much ......
Just A thought....
The subject of Islam can b viewed as either a VERY complex set of rules or a simple way of life. In arabic ISLAM, in everyday terms means..."WAY OF LIFE", and a VERY important part of this is the "spiritual" aspect
I am a Muslim and born and bred in London
Islam is not here to conquer the world, terrorise it or anything that the "Americans" want YOU to believe....Its all complete CR*P.
As far as OBL is concerned do u not think he/they are ONLY defending what they (The Americans) are trying to steal...their homes, wealth etc etc ALL to meet their worldly consumption of OIL. I am not defending their actions but trying to understand their motives WITHOUT Corrupt info from the Americans...CNN lol
In fact it is forbidden for any muslim to attack anothers belief, faith, way of life etc etc.
It ALL boils down to interpretation of a set of rules as laid down by GOD (In arabic we say allah).
Islam and Muslims, as believers, are to portray the message to the world as to the purity (in every sense of the word) of this way of life. Whether or not an individual, group of individuals, community and society at large listen, understand and implement it, is their decision.
ALL this propaganda against muslims and the way they treat their women, punishment against thieves...i.e. chop their hands off is XTREME to say the least
There are guidelines and PRE-REQUISITES to all rules except those that are exceptional like prayer, just 1 example...
Islam is the fastest growing "religion"....Supposed to read fastest growing "Way Of Life" as this is what Islam Means.....
Probably explains why the Americans attack it so much ......
Just A thought....
30 May 2004, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by aceman_uk
Islam is not here to conquer the world, terrorise it or anything that the "Americans" want YOU to believe....Its all complete CR*P.
As far as OBL is concerned do u not think he/they are ONLY defending what they (The Americans) are trying to steal...their homes, wealth etc etc ALL to meet their worldly consumption of OIL. I am not defending their actions but trying to understand their motives WITHOUT Corrupt info from the Americans...CNN lol
ALL this propaganda against muslims and the way they treat their women, punishment against thieves...i.e. chop their hands off is XTREME to say the least
Probably explains why the Americans attack it so much ......
Just A thought....
Originally Posted by aceman-uk
In fact it is forbidden for any muslim to attack anothers belief, faith, way of life etc etc.
(not muslim, so forgive me if I have this wrong)
30 May 2004, 04:43 PM
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Vandal...
Appreciate ur thoughts....Thats what the function of the brain is.....For 1 to decide what is right and wrong. As for re-iterating what has been said...
Its not a case of Hate Breeds Hate.....I can appreciate what u r saying but dont u think that the Americans are putting into practice what they are accusing these SO-CALLED Islamic Terrorists of????
Dont listen to what u r told ....find the hard facts....I mean c'mon, we are ALL guilty of learning what we r told...including me.
I dont hate Americans.......In fact as a muslim I hate no faith, religion, way of life etc etc. ITS THE HYPOCRACY THAT IS SOOOO CLEAR in ALL their policies that brands ALL muslims as terrorists.
For example, that Islamic Activist with a hook on his left hand that is in the process of being deported. He has said things like I HATE THIS COUNTRY (UK) and talking down everyting about it. Well IF YOU DONT LIKE IT....Its simple....LEAVE thats to put it mildly....More like P*SS OFF Then.
But thats a seperate issue. Islam is a peaceful way of life with guidelines on every aspect of life...Thats EVERY ASPECT. They are portrayed from Allah (God) and there is NO discrepency. This has been tried and tested and proven by various scientists etc etc etc.
I hope not to offend anyone, as that is NOT my intention....
Anyway back to the SCOOB World....
(Makes his way over to the Members Gallery LOL)
Appreciate ur thoughts....Thats what the function of the brain is.....For 1 to decide what is right and wrong. As for re-iterating what has been said...
Its not a case of Hate Breeds Hate.....I can appreciate what u r saying but dont u think that the Americans are putting into practice what they are accusing these SO-CALLED Islamic Terrorists of????
Dont listen to what u r told ....find the hard facts....I mean c'mon, we are ALL guilty of learning what we r told...including me.
I dont hate Americans.......In fact as a muslim I hate no faith, religion, way of life etc etc. ITS THE HYPOCRACY THAT IS SOOOO CLEAR in ALL their policies that brands ALL muslims as terrorists.
For example, that Islamic Activist with a hook on his left hand that is in the process of being deported. He has said things like I HATE THIS COUNTRY (UK) and talking down everyting about it. Well IF YOU DONT LIKE IT....Its simple....LEAVE
thats to put it mildly....More like P*SS OFF Then.But thats a seperate issue. Islam is a peaceful way of life with guidelines on every aspect of life...Thats EVERY ASPECT. They are portrayed from Allah (God) and there is NO discrepency. This has been tried and tested and proven by various scientists etc etc etc.
I hope not to offend anyone, as that is NOT my intention....
Anyway back to the SCOOB World....
(Makes his way over to the Members Gallery LOL)
30 May 2004, 05:00 PM
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Aceman, I try to find the facts, believe me. to support any form of terrorism(including state sponsored, or by a state) is certainly wrong.
in addition to this I would even go so far as to say that the US and british press are less open and balanced in their reporting than Al Jazeera, and therefore much to my own disappointment, if I want honest balanced news on Arab matters and the situation in the middle east(and I am not inferring all muslims are Arab, because i know that isn't true). I should like to point out to all who will now call me unpatriotic that all the Arab nations were appalled and that Hezbollah openly condemmed the killing of the american hostage nick berg, but because they are regarded as palestinian terrorists rather than resistance in an occupied country, this was never reported here.
but I still believe that to say "america" is evil is the same as "muslims" are terrorists and extremists.
I truly wish things could be solved in better ways.....
I would settle all disputes by "ok, who's car is quickest???" it's so much more personal
in addition to this I would even go so far as to say that the US and british press are less open and balanced in their reporting than Al Jazeera, and therefore much to my own disappointment, if I want honest balanced news on Arab matters and the situation in the middle east(and I am not inferring all muslims are Arab, because i know that isn't true). I should like to point out to all who will now call me unpatriotic that all the Arab nations were appalled and that Hezbollah openly condemmed the killing of the american hostage nick berg, but because they are regarded as palestinian terrorists rather than resistance in an occupied country, this was never reported here.
but I still believe that to say "america" is evil is the same as "muslims" are terrorists and extremists.
I truly wish things could be solved in better ways.....
I would settle all disputes by "ok, who's car is quickest???" it's so much more personal
30 May 2004, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by aceman_uk
The car is ONLY as good as the Driver
I win,just so bl**dy good I am