chancellor cuts 100,000 civil service jobs
#1
chancellor cuts 100,000 civil service jobs
So, 100,000 people are deemed to be "inefficient" in the civil service
Say the average wage of each one is £20,000 per annum (not even factoring in costs of their pension contributions, NI, cost per employee to the civil service in terms of facilities etc! - which probably means more like £40k real cost per employee on average).
That's £2bn per year AT LEAST in us currently funding these 100,000 "inefficient" civil servants!!!
£2bn!
Say the average wage of each one is £20,000 per annum (not even factoring in costs of their pension contributions, NI, cost per employee to the civil service in terms of facilities etc! - which probably means more like £40k real cost per employee on average).
That's £2bn per year AT LEAST in us currently funding these 100,000 "inefficient" civil servants!!!
£2bn!
Last edited by imlach; 12 July 2004 at 04:41 PM. Reason: oops....got my billions confused with US billions!
Trending Topics
#8
Hmm....goverment departmental spending in 2007/08 will total £340bn.
There are approx 50m people in this country, and therefore, that comes to £6800 spent per person by the goverment of this country....
There are approx 50m people in this country, and therefore, that comes to £6800 spent per person by the goverment of this country....
#11
Originally Posted by MattW
I used to work in the civil service and I would suggest your average is way to high
The cost to the company of each engineer in our company is probably approaching £100k per seat. The salary is probably half of that.
Remember, the employer has to budget for the following over & above the employee's salary :
- employer NI contributions
- pension contributions in most cases
- lots of other benefits (sick pay, life insurance, etc)
- equipment (PCs, desks, etc)
- facility running costs (heating, water, sewage, etc)
- rates on the building, as well as perhaps rent
#12
Originally Posted by Brendan Hughes
(BTW, I thought it was 80 000 going and 20 000 being relocated out of London.)
20,000 in addition being moved out of London.
#13
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 4,037
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
completely unsurprising, I always wondered what the hell most of em do, apart from sit there and try and invent the wheel!!!!
I have always believed that if local government were run as businesses that had to go and win new business, provide a good level of customer service and have staff that were accountable if they didnt do their job properly I would give them at best 2 months before going bust!
I have always believed that if local government were run as businesses that had to go and win new business, provide a good level of customer service and have staff that were accountable if they didnt do their job properly I would give them at best 2 months before going bust!
#14
Other hidden costs of mass redundancies which I've never seen any organisation take into account:
Firstly, many people above the 104,000 will leave (after seeing whether they get a fat redundancy cheque) because of fears for the security of their once considered "safe" jobs. The first people to go are normally the best people, simply because they are the most re-employable. Yes, even the civil service has a few good people.
Secondly, years of difficulty in recruiting. Initially this isn't a problem because you've just got rid of people and don't need to hire. But, the people who will abandon the sinking ship will need to be replaced. As people will be more reluctant to join an organisation seen to be insecure, they will need to increase salary offers to encourage people to join. Either that or you end up hiring a bunch of biffa's who are incompetant and lazy.
Either way costs will increase a few months/years down the line. Gordon Brown-Nose will then be forced to either increase taxes (again!) or make more people redundant, perpetuating the cycle.
Firstly, many people above the 104,000 will leave (after seeing whether they get a fat redundancy cheque) because of fears for the security of their once considered "safe" jobs. The first people to go are normally the best people, simply because they are the most re-employable. Yes, even the civil service has a few good people.
Secondly, years of difficulty in recruiting. Initially this isn't a problem because you've just got rid of people and don't need to hire. But, the people who will abandon the sinking ship will need to be replaced. As people will be more reluctant to join an organisation seen to be insecure, they will need to increase salary offers to encourage people to join. Either that or you end up hiring a bunch of biffa's who are incompetant and lazy.
Either way costs will increase a few months/years down the line. Gordon Brown-Nose will then be forced to either increase taxes (again!) or make more people redundant, perpetuating the cycle.
#16
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: None of your business.
Posts: 11,088
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmmm, funny one for me this. I work for a Non Departmental Public Body, so I'm not a civil servant but everything we do is funded by the government; my gran is trying to put the ***** up me! UR, what is your source?
Cheers
C
Cheers
C
#17
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Go look at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3887053.stm
OOps - sorry Jerome - we must have posted at the same time ....
Dave
... which says ....
Chancellor Gordon Brown
has outlined plans to axe more than 104,000 civil service jobs across the UK.
Setting out his three year spending plans, he told MPs 84,150 jobs would go in England and a further 20,000 in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
This money will go towards extra spending on health, education, defence, housing and overseas aid, he said.
But the unions said the huge job cuts spelt "carnage" for public services and warned of industrial action.
'Painful process'
Public and Commercial Services union general secretary Mark Serwotka said: "When this Government was elected they imposed the windfall tax to pay for initiatives like the New Deal, now they are using their own workforce to pay for their policies."
Conservative shadow chancellor Oliver Letwin branded Mr Brown's plans a "manifesto for fat government and fake savings" which would lead to more bureaucracy, more targets, more initiatives, more taskforces, more regulation, more borrowing and more taxes.
Mr Brown also said that 20,030 civil service jobs would be relocated from London to the regions, including 5,000 treasury staff.
He also pledged a crackdown on absenteeism and sick leave without a doctor's note.
The Department of Trade and Industry will see its running costs cut by 15%, while the Department of Work and Pensions will see its fall by 9%.
PLANNED JOB CUTS
Education - 1,960
Health - 720
Transport - 700
ODPM - 400
Home Office - 2,700
Constituional Affairs - 1,100
Law Officers Dept - 50
Defence - 15,000
Foreign Office - 310
International development - 170
DTI - 1,280
DEFRA - 2,400
DCMS - 30
Work and Pensions - 40,000
Northern Ireland - 130
Chancellor's Depts - 16,850
Cabinet Ofice - 150
UK Trade and Investment - 200
Mr Brown will also order government departments to sell off £30bn worth of buildings and other assets.
The job cuts include the 40,000 redundancies already announced by Mr Brown in his budget earlier this year.
Mr Brown told MPs: "I can tell you it is a painful process. We regret the fact that people have to lose their jobs. We are helping people get new jobs.
"It is really does nobody any good for the Conservatives to suggest that big change that is taking place and has to take place is not actually happening."
Mr Brown said the cuts, plus other efficiency measures would help save £21.5bn a year for frontline public services.
'Tax rises'
In addition, savings made from low unemployment and debt payments meant spending on frontline services would increase by 4.2% above inflation over the three years, Mr Brown said.
Other spending pledges
A 5.8% rise in science funding, in real terms
2.3% increase in culture spending
Extending pilot scheme for free nursery school for two-year-olds
1.4% above inflation increase for BBC World Service
A £30 fund for crime victims
£100m for children's care centres
Mr Letwin, for the Tories, said: "When will the chancellor admit he has been spending beyond his means and that that policy will mean third term tax rises under Labour?"
For the Liberal Democrats, Vincent Cable contrasted Mr Letwin's "slash and burn" tactics with Mr Brown's "more cautious trim and singe approach to public finances".
He said both relied upon the "magic ingredient" of cutting waste.
"If this waste is so easily available, why hasn't it been dealt with already?" he added.
The government has already unveiled big increases in spending on health and education.
Measures set out by the chancellor on Monday include:
Bigger than expected increase of 1.4% in Defence and Foreign Office budgets
A 9.2% increase in real terms in foreign aid
10% increase in security spending
2.7% increase in home office spending, with more cash for community wardens and to combat anti-social behaviour
4.5% increase in transport spending in real terms, with detailed spending plans to be unveiled later this month
2.7% increase in cash for social services. with extra care for the elderly a top priority
Mr Brown also pledged more cash for housing, with about £800m to go on social housing and regeneration projects in the north and Midlands, with the rest to go on subsidising commercial building in the Thames Gateway, Ashford, Milton Keynes and the London-Stansted corridor.
General election
The chancellor's spending review - which covers the period 2005/06 to 2007/08 - sets the priorities for Labour's general election manifesto.
The chancellor delivered his fourth spending review following a weekend of speculation about Tony Blair's future.
The prime minister faces a particularly challenging week, with the Butler report into intelligence on Iraq to be published on Wednesday and by-elections in Leicester South and Birmingham Hodge Hill a day later.
OOps - sorry Jerome - we must have posted at the same time ....
Dave
... which says ....
Chancellor Gordon Brown
has outlined plans to axe more than 104,000 civil service jobs across the UK.
Setting out his three year spending plans, he told MPs 84,150 jobs would go in England and a further 20,000 in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
This money will go towards extra spending on health, education, defence, housing and overseas aid, he said.
But the unions said the huge job cuts spelt "carnage" for public services and warned of industrial action.
'Painful process'
Public and Commercial Services union general secretary Mark Serwotka said: "When this Government was elected they imposed the windfall tax to pay for initiatives like the New Deal, now they are using their own workforce to pay for their policies."
Conservative shadow chancellor Oliver Letwin branded Mr Brown's plans a "manifesto for fat government and fake savings" which would lead to more bureaucracy, more targets, more initiatives, more taskforces, more regulation, more borrowing and more taxes.
Mr Brown also said that 20,030 civil service jobs would be relocated from London to the regions, including 5,000 treasury staff.
He also pledged a crackdown on absenteeism and sick leave without a doctor's note.
The Department of Trade and Industry will see its running costs cut by 15%, while the Department of Work and Pensions will see its fall by 9%.
PLANNED JOB CUTS
Education - 1,960
Health - 720
Transport - 700
ODPM - 400
Home Office - 2,700
Constituional Affairs - 1,100
Law Officers Dept - 50
Defence - 15,000
Foreign Office - 310
International development - 170
DTI - 1,280
DEFRA - 2,400
DCMS - 30
Work and Pensions - 40,000
Northern Ireland - 130
Chancellor's Depts - 16,850
Cabinet Ofice - 150
UK Trade and Investment - 200
Mr Brown will also order government departments to sell off £30bn worth of buildings and other assets.
The job cuts include the 40,000 redundancies already announced by Mr Brown in his budget earlier this year.
Mr Brown told MPs: "I can tell you it is a painful process. We regret the fact that people have to lose their jobs. We are helping people get new jobs.
"It is really does nobody any good for the Conservatives to suggest that big change that is taking place and has to take place is not actually happening."
Mr Brown said the cuts, plus other efficiency measures would help save £21.5bn a year for frontline public services.
'Tax rises'
In addition, savings made from low unemployment and debt payments meant spending on frontline services would increase by 4.2% above inflation over the three years, Mr Brown said.
Other spending pledges
A 5.8% rise in science funding, in real terms
2.3% increase in culture spending
Extending pilot scheme for free nursery school for two-year-olds
1.4% above inflation increase for BBC World Service
A £30 fund for crime victims
£100m for children's care centres
Mr Letwin, for the Tories, said: "When will the chancellor admit he has been spending beyond his means and that that policy will mean third term tax rises under Labour?"
For the Liberal Democrats, Vincent Cable contrasted Mr Letwin's "slash and burn" tactics with Mr Brown's "more cautious trim and singe approach to public finances".
He said both relied upon the "magic ingredient" of cutting waste.
"If this waste is so easily available, why hasn't it been dealt with already?" he added.
The government has already unveiled big increases in spending on health and education.
Measures set out by the chancellor on Monday include:
Bigger than expected increase of 1.4% in Defence and Foreign Office budgets
A 9.2% increase in real terms in foreign aid
10% increase in security spending
2.7% increase in home office spending, with more cash for community wardens and to combat anti-social behaviour
4.5% increase in transport spending in real terms, with detailed spending plans to be unveiled later this month
2.7% increase in cash for social services. with extra care for the elderly a top priority
Mr Brown also pledged more cash for housing, with about £800m to go on social housing and regeneration projects in the north and Midlands, with the rest to go on subsidising commercial building in the Thames Gateway, Ashford, Milton Keynes and the London-Stansted corridor.
General election
The chancellor's spending review - which covers the period 2005/06 to 2007/08 - sets the priorities for Labour's general election manifesto.
The chancellor delivered his fourth spending review following a weekend of speculation about Tony Blair's future.
The prime minister faces a particularly challenging week, with the Butler report into intelligence on Iraq to be published on Wednesday and by-elections in Leicester South and Birmingham Hodge Hill a day later.
#21
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Right then...all he needs to to do now is get rid of all the middle man sapping the NHS funds and employ doctors and nurses instead.
And stop renaming departments...such as DETR to VOSA, or whatever it's called now, and wasting a few billion in new officies, thinking up another catchy acronym, designing logos, new letter heads, computers, software, websites etc.
And stop renaming departments...such as DETR to VOSA, or whatever it's called now, and wasting a few billion in new officies, thinking up another catchy acronym, designing logos, new letter heads, computers, software, websites etc.
#22
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Talk to the hand....
Posts: 13,331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by eClaire
UR, what is your source?
Cheers
C
Cheers
C
"The number of Pulic Sector Jobs has swollen by more than 500,000 in just 5 years. Labout hit the half-million mark after 162,000 taxpayer funded workers were taken on last year - a rate of 444 extra state jobs a day."
There's plenty more too. I'll roll that out as required.
UB
#24
Originally Posted by ALi-B
And stop renaming departments...such as DETR to VOSA, or whatever it's called now, and wasting a few billion in new officies, thinking up another catchy acronym, designing logos, new letter heads, computers, software, websites etc.
....and what was it? The Saltire....
Hmm...wish I'd been given £200k to think of that one....
#25
This is a load of cr@p.
It doesn't matter whether I'm getting served in a shop, on the phone to my bank, getting my motor serviced, sorting out insurance, getting work done on the house......about half the people I deal with are lazy, workshy, incompetent, stupid or all 4. Civil service doesn't have a monopoly - it's just human nature for a lot of people.
Me? I work in local government
It doesn't matter whether I'm getting served in a shop, on the phone to my bank, getting my motor serviced, sorting out insurance, getting work done on the house......about half the people I deal with are lazy, workshy, incompetent, stupid or all 4. Civil service doesn't have a monopoly - it's just human nature for a lot of people.
Me? I work in local government
#26
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Sodding Chipbury
Posts: 2,702
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by unclebuck
Not sure if you mean't UB? In case you did, my source is from the Mail - a clipping I saved for discussions such as this one. Quote:
"The number of Pulic Sector Jobs has swollen by more than 500,000 in just 5 years. Labout hit the half-million mark after 162,000 taxpayer funded workers were taken on last year - a rate of 444 extra state jobs a day."
There's plenty more too. I'll roll that out as required.
UB
"The number of Pulic Sector Jobs has swollen by more than 500,000 in just 5 years. Labout hit the half-million mark after 162,000 taxpayer funded workers were taken on last year - a rate of 444 extra state jobs a day."
There's plenty more too. I'll roll that out as required.
UB
Out of interest does it give details of where these extra 500,000 work, as I'm sure even they'd not claim they are all desk jockeys.
#27
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Talk to the hand....
Posts: 13,331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by MooseRacer
The Mail bless 'em
Out of interest does it give details of where these extra 500,000 work, as I'm sure even they'd not claim they are all desk jockeys.
Out of interest does it give details of where these extra 500,000 work, as I'm sure even they'd not claim they are all desk jockeys.
"The Government hired just 4,000 teachers last year among 88,000 new staff working in education."
"Recent studies show that 6 out of 10 NHS staff are clerks or managers while only 7% are doctors and fewer than a third are nurses."
My opinion is that they are buying votes with our taxes, creating completely pointless 'non jobs'. They can readily cull 100,000 of these without any impact on services and dress it up to make themselves look good, claiming to cut waste etc.
#30
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: A powerslide near you
Posts: 10,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The question isn't what do the 100,000 do. The question is what do the 500,000 new civil servants that have been brought in by new labia actually do? That's half a million 'new' jobs.
There are lots that do stuff and there are a hell of a lot of pen&paper pushers who admin the admin who are admining the admins.
There are lots that do stuff and there are a hell of a lot of pen&paper pushers who admin the admin who are admining the admins.