Browns £5 billion a year stealth tax = great disaster of British financial history
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 310Nm oil burner....
Posts: 2,619
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Browns £5 billion a year stealth tax = great disaster of British financial history
If you are thinking of voting Labour in again read this and hopefully you will see sense and see what a shower in incompetents they really are.......
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...259242,00.html
A small snippet from the times article.....
"He took all the big decisions on pensions. He has wrecked the system of private pensions; he has wrecked the system of public pensions; he has destroyed the system of savings; he has taxed pensions by deliberate stealth; he has impoverished generations of old people, past, present and to come. Brown’s pension policy has been one of the great disasters of British financial history. He must be held responsible."
"Of course, ministers have not had their pensions stealth-taxed nor have Members of Parliament, nor senior civil servants. But all private-sector pensioners ought to regard Gordon Brown as the enemy. "Of course Blair, Gordon and the rest of them are unnafected on there final salary pensions"
--------
I can not believe that this has been allowed to happen, we'll all have to work till we die.......
What are your thoughts? did you know this was happening? would you still vote labour now you know this?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...259242,00.html
A small snippet from the times article.....
"He took all the big decisions on pensions. He has wrecked the system of private pensions; he has wrecked the system of public pensions; he has destroyed the system of savings; he has taxed pensions by deliberate stealth; he has impoverished generations of old people, past, present and to come. Brown’s pension policy has been one of the great disasters of British financial history. He must be held responsible."
"Of course, ministers have not had their pensions stealth-taxed nor have Members of Parliament, nor senior civil servants. But all private-sector pensioners ought to regard Gordon Brown as the enemy. "Of course Blair, Gordon and the rest of them are unnafected on there final salary pensions"
--------
I can not believe that this has been allowed to happen, we'll all have to work till we die.......
What are your thoughts? did you know this was happening? would you still vote labour now you know this?
#3
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Lots of different places! (Thank you Mr. Lambert)
Posts: 3,037
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Trouble is that believing that voting them out and someone else in is going to solve these sort of problems is just naivety pure and simple. This country has been heading down hill for a very long time and the political system and all the parties involved have played their part.
Problem is most of the electorate still cling to the belief that one or other party is good for them - for some reason they can't see or maybe don't wnat to see the bigger picture.
Sad, but true.
tiggers.
Problem is most of the electorate still cling to the belief that one or other party is good for them - for some reason they can't see or maybe don't wnat to see the bigger picture.
Sad, but true.
tiggers.
#4
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 310Nm oil burner....
Posts: 2,619
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tiggers
Did you actually read the article????????????????
Brown has been Stealth taxing private pensions to the sum of £5 billion a year! This is something the Conservatives would never do.
It was one of the strongest financial systems in Europe. For the past 8 years they have have £5billion less a year to invest!!!
That equals a massive shortfall that will hit most of us hard working people when we come to retire!
Are you a senior civil servant per chance??
Did you actually read the article????????????????
Brown has been Stealth taxing private pensions to the sum of £5 billion a year! This is something the Conservatives would never do.
It was one of the strongest financial systems in Europe. For the past 8 years they have have £5billion less a year to invest!!!
That equals a massive shortfall that will hit most of us hard working people when we come to retire!
Are you a senior civil servant per chance??
#5
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New Jack City
Posts: 1,500
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not an expert on the subject of pensions and William Rees Mogg banging on with clever language and his own rough figures doesn't really say much to me.
#6
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire Xbox Gamertag: Gutgouger
Posts: 6,956
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So if the conservatives get rid of the 5 billion a year stealth tax, what are they going to do about the 5 billion shortfall they'll have in their budget. Probably cut public services and implement a completely different steath tax somewhere else.
The problem with this country is that there are too many people sponging off the state, (I can show you many people around where I live that have never done a days work in their life, never intend to, and get a free council house in the bargin). The money has to come from somewhere...
(p.s. I'm not sticking up for Labour, I just don't think the cons or lib-dems would be any better - they're all as bad as each other in my book)...
The problem with this country is that there are too many people sponging off the state, (I can show you many people around where I live that have never done a days work in their life, never intend to, and get a free council house in the bargin). The money has to come from somewhere...
(p.s. I'm not sticking up for Labour, I just don't think the cons or lib-dems would be any better - they're all as bad as each other in my book)...
#7
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The biosphere
Posts: 7,824
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by gsm1
I'm not an expert on the subject of pensions and William Rees Mogg banging on with clever language and his own rough figures doesn't really say much to me.
Trending Topics
#8
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New Jack City
Posts: 1,500
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by ajm
That's because you voted for Labour, and now you are burdened with having to show them in a good light or face being blamed for what they are doing to this country and our civil liberties!
#9
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 310Nm oil burner....
Posts: 2,619
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by gsm1
I'm not an expert on the subject of pensions and William Rees Mogg banging on with clever language and his own rough figures doesn't really say much to me.
http://www.killik.co.uk/page.aspx?page=429
#10
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: From Your Worst Nightmare!
Posts: 1,362
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah it is absolutually terrible. Hate this government and what this country has come to, it's a complete disaster and a lesson for the rest of the world in how not to run a country or more acurately 'How to **** up a country, and squeeze it's citezens for every penny they are worth'.
No doubt pslewis will be along any second with his damned 'I love blair and labour, they are so great' speach.
pslewis, if you love blair so much why don't you marry him?! I think it's about time you took your head out of your ***, or blair ***, which ever it is in, and take a look at the real world and what a big **** up labour are!!!
No doubt pslewis will be along any second with his damned 'I love blair and labour, they are so great' speach.
pslewis, if you love blair so much why don't you marry him?! I think it's about time you took your head out of your ***, or blair ***, which ever it is in, and take a look at the real world and what a big **** up labour are!!!
#11
There are many many more stealth taxes that our grubby little chancellor has introduced, married couples allowance has been erradicated, private care of the elderly has been messed around with, Peps, Tessas and ISAs have been screwed (as of tax year 06/07 you can only invest £1000 max p.a.)
If someone made a list of these and it was widely published then I think he would be "spending more time with his family"
....or someone else's family as was the case with Blunkett
#12
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire Xbox Gamertag: Gutgouger
Posts: 6,956
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What a well reasoned argument you have there EvilKyote.
I'm agree totally that Labour aren't exactly doing a great job, but what I've failed to see in any of these discussions is why you think the cons or lib-dems would do any better?
I'm agree totally that Labour aren't exactly doing a great job, but what I've failed to see in any of these discussions is why you think the cons or lib-dems would do any better?
#13
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Talk to the hand....
Posts: 13,331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by tiggers
Trouble is that believing that voting them out and someone else in is going to solve these sort of problems is just naivety pure and simple. This country has been heading down hill for a very long time and the political system and all the parties involved have played their part.
Problem is most of the electorate still cling to the belief that one or other party is good for them - for some reason they can't see or maybe don't wnat to see the bigger picture.
Sad, but true.
tiggers.
Problem is most of the electorate still cling to the belief that one or other party is good for them - for some reason they can't see or maybe don't wnat to see the bigger picture.
Sad, but true.
tiggers.
New year - same old 6th form common room crap.
The country was actually doing quite well fiscally until the present shower got their grubby mits on the levers of power.
Sad but true?!? Give me strength...
#14
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The biosphere
Posts: 7,824
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by gsm1
When have I ever banged the drum for Labour here?
#15
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 310Nm oil burner....
Posts: 2,619
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Iain Young
So if the conservatives get rid of the 5 billion a year stealth tax, what are they going to do about the 5 billion shortfall they'll have in their budget. Probably cut public services and implement a completely different steath tax somewhere else.).
Originally Posted by Iain Young
The problem with this country is that there are too many people sponging off the state, (I can show you many people around where I live that have never done a days work in their life, never intend to, and get a free council house in the bargin). The money has to come from somewhere...
I'd like to see benifit stopped if out of work for no good reason, longer that a year or so!
Get rid of the culture of living off the state, people will soon start to work if they are hungry! And for those that want to mugg your granny instead of find a job, thrown them in jail for a decent period of time working in a chain gang or such like!
HARSH but fair!
#16
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire Xbox Gamertag: Gutgouger
Posts: 6,956
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by unclebuck
The country was actually doing quite well fiscally until the present shower got their grubby mits on the levers of power.
You can't use history to prove that the cons would do better than labour now. The parties are made up of completely different people, they have different policies, and the world situation (both politically and financially) is completely different to how it was when the cons were last in power..
#17
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Lots of different places! (Thank you Mr. Lambert)
Posts: 3,037
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by VTEC to Turbo
Tiggers
Did you actually read the article????????????????
Brown has been Stealth taxing private pensions to the sum of £5 billion a year! This is something the Conservatives would never do.
It was one of the strongest financial systems in Europe. For the past 8 years they have have £5billion less a year to invest!!!
That equals a massive shortfall that will hit most of us hard working people when we come to retire!
Are you a senior civil servant per chance??
Did you actually read the article????????????????
Brown has been Stealth taxing private pensions to the sum of £5 billion a year! This is something the Conservatives would never do.
It was one of the strongest financial systems in Europe. For the past 8 years they have have £5billion less a year to invest!!!
That equals a massive shortfall that will hit most of us hard working people when we come to retire!
Are you a senior civil servant per chance??
You can work yourself into a lather all you like about what Labour have done and what the Conservatives would never do (although how you know this is beyond me), but my point is that with any government/party in the UK what they giveth with one hand they will take away with the other - they are all short termists and all driven by personal greed.
If it's not the pensions it will be something else. You can seek comfort in voting for another party, but I don't think that in the long term you'll find any. This country is suffering from a woeful lack of long term vision and investment probably since WWII if the truth be know and there is no quick fix certainly not with the current crop of point scoring politicians no matter which party they belong to.
Anyway that's just my thoughts. Not saying what has happened is right, just saying I don't think it will get any better no matter which way you turn.
tiggers.
#18
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire Xbox Gamertag: Gutgouger
Posts: 6,956
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by VTEC to Turbo
I'd like to see benifit stopped if out of work for no good reason, longer that a year or so!
Get rid of the culture of living off the state, people will soon start to work if they are hungry! And for those that want to mugg your granny instead of find a job, thrown them in jail for a decent period of time working in a chain gang or such like!
HARSH but fair!
Get rid of the culture of living off the state, people will soon start to work if they are hungry! And for those that want to mugg your granny instead of find a job, thrown them in jail for a decent period of time working in a chain gang or such like!
HARSH but fair!
#19
Found a few more of Mr. Brown's "highlights":
Mortgage interest relief (Miras) cut and then abolished (1997, 2000 Budgets)
Stamp Duty increases on property transfers - up from 1 to 4 per cent on larger properties (1997, 1998, 1999, 2000) (4% band is now at £250,000, this affects many more properties seeing as the housing market has been over-inflated by governmental policies.)
Tax on company cars increased through higher car and fuel scale charges (1998)
Dividend Tax Credit withdrawn (1997) - reducing income to - among others - charities, pension funds and the elderly living on dividend income
High mileage discounts for company car drivers reduced (1999)
National Insurance rates rise 1 per cent - and new 1 per cent charge introduced on earnings above upper earnings limit of £31,720 (announced 2002 for 2003)
Stamp Duty Land Tax of 1 per cent levied on accumulated rental premiums over £60,000 (from December 2003)
Income tax to be levied on assets transferred into trusts where the original owner continues to use those assets (proposed in 2003 pre-Budget statement, possibly in place now)
Source - Guardian online of all places!!
I guess at least with the sleaze associated with the last Tory government only one person was being fcuked!
Mortgage interest relief (Miras) cut and then abolished (1997, 2000 Budgets)
Stamp Duty increases on property transfers - up from 1 to 4 per cent on larger properties (1997, 1998, 1999, 2000) (4% band is now at £250,000, this affects many more properties seeing as the housing market has been over-inflated by governmental policies.)
Tax on company cars increased through higher car and fuel scale charges (1998)
Dividend Tax Credit withdrawn (1997) - reducing income to - among others - charities, pension funds and the elderly living on dividend income
High mileage discounts for company car drivers reduced (1999)
National Insurance rates rise 1 per cent - and new 1 per cent charge introduced on earnings above upper earnings limit of £31,720 (announced 2002 for 2003)
Stamp Duty Land Tax of 1 per cent levied on accumulated rental premiums over £60,000 (from December 2003)
Income tax to be levied on assets transferred into trusts where the original owner continues to use those assets (proposed in 2003 pre-Budget statement, possibly in place now)
Source - Guardian online of all places!!
I guess at least with the sleaze associated with the last Tory government only one person was being fcuked!
#20
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Lots of different places! (Thank you Mr. Lambert)
Posts: 3,037
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by unclebuck
New year - same old 6th form common room crap.
The country was actually doing quite well fiscally until the present shower got their grubby mits on the levers of power.
Sad but true?!? Give me strength...
The country was actually doing quite well fiscally until the present shower got their grubby mits on the levers of power.
Sad but true?!? Give me strength...
#21
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 310Nm oil burner....
Posts: 2,619
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Iain Young
But public services and the NHS were (believe it or not) a lot worse than they are now, and there were far fewer people sponging off the state than there are now.
MRSA is new to Labour, because they have more managers than doctors. They aren't even cleaned under new labour, which is the cause of MRSA!
They fiddle the figures to make you think that the queues are shorter..
Media spin and hype mate, just because you throw more money at something doesn't make it any better.
Anyway back to the topic of the thread. If you are a late comer to the thread please read the link in the original post.
#23
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Lots of different places! (Thank you Mr. Lambert)
Posts: 3,037
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by ajm
Are we going to have to separate you two?
No I'm done. Like I said the other day I genuinely have more important things on my mind at the moment and hence I've not got the time or the inclination to get involved in what is essentially metaphorically banging my head against a brick wall.
Thanks for the thought though
tiggers.
#24
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: West Yorks.
Posts: 4,130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Strange that no one has mentioned that the original reason private pensions started to slide in the first place was bad investment and bad advice in the glorious boom-bust Thatcher years.
State pensions have been doomed for years, irrespective of which political party is in power ; when the welfare state was introduced in the early 20th century it was pretty uncommon for people to live beyond 65-70 and therefore it seemed like a good bet. Not the case in this day and age, but no political party has the bottle to just pull the plug on the system once and for all.
Paying into a pension scheme now is like pouring money down the drain. IMO people should look to other investments to cater for their retirement rather than relying on the bullet-ridden welfare state and commision-hunting scumbag IFAs. Either that or just spend all your money now - who knows, by the time your retirement comes there may be some sort of Logan's Run type compulsory euthanasia scheme in place
State pensions have been doomed for years, irrespective of which political party is in power ; when the welfare state was introduced in the early 20th century it was pretty uncommon for people to live beyond 65-70 and therefore it seemed like a good bet. Not the case in this day and age, but no political party has the bottle to just pull the plug on the system once and for all.
Paying into a pension scheme now is like pouring money down the drain. IMO people should look to other investments to cater for their retirement rather than relying on the bullet-ridden welfare state and commision-hunting scumbag IFAs. Either that or just spend all your money now - who knows, by the time your retirement comes there may be some sort of Logan's Run type compulsory euthanasia scheme in place
#25
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire Xbox Gamertag: Gutgouger
Posts: 6,956
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by VTEC to Turbo
What gives you that impression.
They aren't even cleaned under new labour, which is the cause of MRSA!
They fiddle the figures to make you think that the queues are shorter..
Media spin and hype mate, just because you throw more money at something doesn't make it any better.
If you are a late comer to the thread please read the link in the original post.
#26
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Talk to the hand....
Posts: 13,331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by tiggers
Yeah things were just peachy all round weren't they?
BTW - VTEC to Turbo has it about right.
#27
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Talk to the hand....
Posts: 13,331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree that the stealth taxes are not great news, but I fail to see why anyone thinks the other lot will do any better.
UB
#28
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 310Nm oil burner....
Posts: 2,619
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by tiggers
LOL - no I'm not a civil servant and yes I've read the article.
Originally Posted by tiggers
but my point is that with any government/party in the UK what they giveth with one hand they will take away with the other - they are all short termists and all driven by personal greed.
Labour in my opinion are like the stupid person in a school class room that makes jokes all the time and gets c+ for projects. Not really good enough guys, you are in a position that actually matters and makes a difference to peoples lives. Let the people with some intelligence take control again.
I respect the government that pushes hard working ethics, for people to get out there and earn a living. Yes we all have to pay taxes, but at least you knew where you were paying it under the Cons.
#29
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 310Nm oil burner....
Posts: 2,619
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Iain Young
So you're blaming the government because people aren't washing their hands. I agree that the MRSA bug is a big problem though. I've got closer experience of this than you might think seeing as my aunt has recently died after catching it .
Originally Posted by Iain Young
Yes I agree that the stealth taxes are not great news, but I fail to see why anyone thinks the other lot will do any better.
#30
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Lots of different places! (Thank you Mr. Lambert)
Posts: 3,037
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by VTEC to Turbo
Let the people with some intelligence take control again.
I respect the government that pushes hard working ethics, for people to get out there and earn a living. Yes we all have to pay taxes, but at least you knew where you were paying it under the Cons.
I respect the government that pushes hard working ethics, for people to get out there and earn a living. Yes we all have to pay taxes, but at least you knew where you were paying it under the Cons.
one that makes sure what as a nation we do want.
one that is not scared to say, for example, OK if you want a world class rail system we are going to have to spend £x million and in that case income tax will have to go up.
one that isn't scared of the media
one that having agreed to fork out £x million for somehting doesn't let costs spiral out of control and holds people to account for their actions
one ....
well you get my drift.
Basically I want a government that wants what is best for Britain and the long term future of its people not a bunch of short termist greed driven career politicians.
My problem is that in my lifetime we have never had a government like that and in the current scheme of things I don't think we ever will have.
I know this has got away a little from the original thread, but it just frustrates me when I think that all we're going to do is vote one lot out and another lot in, but little overall will really change.
tiggers.