The Final Solution
#2
I watched this, very moving, very horrific, frightens me that this was going on just over 60 years ago. Its staggering the number of people who actually carried out orders and helped in the genocide is utterly beyond belief.
It certainly brings a little perspective into what ew perceive today as hardship and unfairness.
I hope what happens is never forgotten.
Dave
It certainly brings a little perspective into what ew perceive today as hardship and unfairness.
I hope what happens is never forgotten.
Dave
#4
I'm still watching it and it's jaw droppingly awful.
I really am starting to feel hatred for those Germans Trouble is my brother in law is German and I love going to the 'Ring. Odd!
F
I really am starting to feel hatred for those Germans Trouble is my brother in law is German and I love going to the 'Ring. Odd!
F
#5
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Originally Posted by Floyd
I'm still watching it and it's jaw droppingly awful.
I really am starting to feel hatred for those Germans Trouble is my brother in law is German and I love going to the 'Ring. Odd!
F
I really am starting to feel hatred for those Germans Trouble is my brother in law is German and I love going to the 'Ring. Odd!
F
Geezer
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I find it hard to watch and sometimes i turn over, i have a real problem watching kids being hurded into gas chambers or looking a the emancipated(sp) bodies of the living and dead.
I watched something on the History Channel or such the other day and an ex British servicman (who ended up in one of the camps) was telling how he watched German soldiers throwning live children into a lit fire pit shortly before the camp was overrun by the Allies.
Words just do not cover how that makes you feel.
I watched something on the History Channel or such the other day and an ex British servicman (who ended up in one of the camps) was telling how he watched German soldiers throwning live children into a lit fire pit shortly before the camp was overrun by the Allies.
Words just do not cover how that makes you feel.
Last edited by The Zohan; 26 January 2005 at 09:47 AM.
#7
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Originally Posted by Geezer
I think the Germans were just unfortunate to have had Hitler come to power then. You can guarantee that if he had come to power here, there would have been extermination camps in the UK. There are always enough people willing to follow someone like him.
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Originally Posted by Floyd
I really am starting to feel hatred for those Germans
F
Also I have visited Dachau and it is on a main road, most of the Dachau villagers had no idea what exactly went on inside the camp, I am also off to Aushwitz in a couple of months to see what is left there.
Alot of these camps are still standing as a reminder of what went on but most of the modern Germans do not want to know and to be honest I don't blame them. There are far to many biggots in this world that hold Germany and Germans responsible for attrocities carried out 60 years ago by a handfull of loonies. If you watched the program last night you would realise that the average German soldier was just that a soldier doing his job, The Waffen SS, Geheim Statt Polizei (Gestapo) and the **** party where not the regular German army. Just look at that German officer who drove into the Warsaw Ghetto and drove out with 2 trucks full of Jews. And Oscar Schindler to name just 2.
Last edited by Wurzel; 26 January 2005 at 09:50 AM.
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Originally Posted by Paul Habgood
or looking a the emancipated(sp) bodies of the living and dead.
Emancipated means to set free.
#10
It is a part of history that we should never forget. I would hate to be a part of a nation which permitted that situation to arise and to happen.
Many people now will not realise just how dreadfully the Jews and the other political and ethnic prisoners were treated by the *****. It is an indication of what man can do to his fellows and similar inhuman acts and murders were carried out during the recent Balkan wars.
This sort of thing could happen these days in any country as well and we should learn from history and be on our guard against it.
Les
Many people now will not realise just how dreadfully the Jews and the other political and ethnic prisoners were treated by the *****. It is an indication of what man can do to his fellows and similar inhuman acts and murders were carried out during the recent Balkan wars.
This sort of thing could happen these days in any country as well and we should learn from history and be on our guard against it.
Les
#11
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Read the Guantanamo Returnees thread, and you can quite easily see how a modern day Hitler could rise to power in this country.
Just as Hitler had Goebbels, all a new dictator would need is Rupert Murdoch on his side, substitute Moslems/immigrants for Jews and the population of this country would lap it up as if it was Gospel, which incidentally is still probably the finest piece of propaganda ever written
Just as Hitler had Goebbels, all a new dictator would need is Rupert Murdoch on his side, substitute Moslems/immigrants for Jews and the population of this country would lap it up as if it was Gospel, which incidentally is still probably the finest piece of propaganda ever written
#12
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Originally Posted by Leslie
This sort of thing could happen these days in any country as well and we should learn from history and be on our guard against it.
Les
Les
If you had told someone at the start of the 20th century what was going to happen in 40 years time in what they thought was a civilised country, they would not have believed you. The fact that the genocide was carried out by the government of the country should serve as a reminder that we should never fully trust our own, or any other government.
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Originally Posted by Jiggerypokery
Sorry Paul, it's emaciated you mean (to become thin through starvation).
Emancipated means to set free.
Emancipated means to set free.
At least you knew what i meant.
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Originally Posted by CrisPDuk
There was nothing unfortunate about it. The German people ELECTED Adolf Hitler into power, on a manifesto not unlike that being touted by the BNP in this country today
If the situation in Britain had been the same as Germany in the late 20s/early 30s, then someone like Hitler would have done well and been VOTED in here as well.
The Germans of today are no more likely to do this again than anyone else.
Geezer
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Yes he was. He was elected as Chancellor in 1933, but seized ultimate power upon Bismarcks death. Thereafter, he just consolidated his power through the methods we all know and love.
Geezer
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#17
18 June 1815 - Waterloo
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I have visited Bergen-Belsen in Germany and I can positively say it is a moving and very thought provoking place. It is true that no birds sing there. Within minutes of going in my daughters both said " We don't like this place Daddy, Can we go home now". Bergen-Belsen is not the biggest but most people miss the Russian Cemetry to the rear of the site 10's of thousands more in there too. Go to Belsen and remember. Being an ex-soldier, it really makes you think. I have also seen the effects of genocide in Bosnia and Kosovo. It's not far away.
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Originally Posted by Blue Dragoon
I have visited Bergen-Belsen in Germany and I can positively say it is a moving and very thought provoking place. It is true that no birds sing there. Within minutes of going in my daughters both said " We don't like this place Daddy, Can we go home now". Bergen-Belsen is not the biggest but most people miss the Russian Cemetry to the rear of the site 10's of thousands more in there too. Go to Belsen and remember. Being an ex-soldier, it really makes you think. I have also seen the effects of genocide in Bosnia and Kosovo. It's not far away.
It really is a myth.
Geezer
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I find it difficult talking to a german knowing that his granddad MIGHT have gassed my relatives.
I'm shocked that they don't teach the children this in germany.
I'm shocked that they don't teach the children this in germany.
#20
Absolutely shocking, even more disturbing is the figures quoted this morning on TV that 60% of 20 to 30 year old in this country don't even know what Auschwitz (sp) was !.
Maybe if the BBC didn't hide these programs on BBC2 then more people would be aware, or are they just worried about upsetting our German neighbours, oh and don't forget the French, they seemed pretty keen to hand over anyone of Jewish origin to save their own skins.
Education, education and more education, this period of history should NOT be forgotten. Oh and don't forget the Jap's they wern't exactly following the geneva convention either.
Maybe if the BBC didn't hide these programs on BBC2 then more people would be aware, or are they just worried about upsetting our German neighbours, oh and don't forget the French, they seemed pretty keen to hand over anyone of Jewish origin to save their own skins.
Education, education and more education, this period of history should NOT be forgotten. Oh and don't forget the Jap's they wern't exactly following the geneva convention either.
#21
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Geezer
Inside the cemetry it is eerily quite. Outside yes birds sing,******* bizarre. Belsen Concentartion Camp is in fact a few miles north of the main Camp.The Main Naafi shop "The Round House" (Squaddie TESCO) is the old SS HQ. Much architecture still in tact. The range complex (military tank range and exercise area) close by has a big bunker in the middle called the "Hitler Hof". He used to watch his troops exercising and developing panzers. Now every one shots the **** out of it. Funnily enough for years I hear the germans have tried to get the Naafi back to there ownership.
Inside the cemetry it is eerily quite. Outside yes birds sing,******* bizarre. Belsen Concentartion Camp is in fact a few miles north of the main Camp.The Main Naafi shop "The Round House" (Squaddie TESCO) is the old SS HQ. Much architecture still in tact. The range complex (military tank range and exercise area) close by has a big bunker in the middle called the "Hitler Hof". He used to watch his troops exercising and developing panzers. Now every one shots the **** out of it. Funnily enough for years I hear the germans have tried to get the Naafi back to there ownership.
Last edited by The Trooper 1815; 26 January 2005 at 11:57 AM. Reason: update
#22
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Originally Posted by Geezer
Yes he was. He was elected as Chancellor in 1933, but seized ultimate power upon Bismarcks death. Thereafter, he just consolidated his power through the methods we all know and love.
Geezer
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Regards
Simon
#23
I have visited Dachau and Sachsenhausen and can back up what has been said about such terrible places. The locals say that Dachau was not a death camp, but the prisoners used to be marched down the road to another place to be executed.
Sachsenhausen, near eastern Berlin was pretty awful. The prisoners who went there were specially selected and were told the only way out was feet first! On the way round it I came to the place where the medical experiments were carried out on the prisoners until they expired from the effects of them. That was when I became overcome with anger and just had to walk out.
I spoke to an elderly German who lived near there and he said that when the Russians arrived at the end of the war, the prisoners in there were not released and also that the camp was used for the same purposes as the ***** until 1968!
British commandos who were caught during WW2 were imprisoned and murdered there. They in particular were hated by the ***** for their successes against them.
All this could easily happen again!
Les
Sachsenhausen, near eastern Berlin was pretty awful. The prisoners who went there were specially selected and were told the only way out was feet first! On the way round it I came to the place where the medical experiments were carried out on the prisoners until they expired from the effects of them. That was when I became overcome with anger and just had to walk out.
I spoke to an elderly German who lived near there and he said that when the Russians arrived at the end of the war, the prisoners in there were not released and also that the camp was used for the same purposes as the ***** until 1968!
British commandos who were caught during WW2 were imprisoned and murdered there. They in particular were hated by the ***** for their successes against them.
All this could easily happen again!
Les
Last edited by Leslie; 26 January 2005 at 12:16 PM. Reason: spelling
#24
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This is why it is essential to get a grip on immigration.
Only a Government that has learned nothing from history could act otherwise.
Only a Government that has learned nothing from history could act otherwise.
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Actually I know several Austrians, (from rural Austria) and you couldn't hope to meet a nicer bunch of people. I've heard several pretty harrowing first hand stories of what the germans did to them (or would do to them) if they didn't comply. Also been shown around a couple of churches etc where firing squads were set up (bullet holes are still in the walls).
Been to a lot of places in Austria, and pretty much everyone I've spoken to has a strong dislike for the Germans. Including a couple I know from the Austrian armed forces and police...
That this history isn't being taught in German schools etc is unforgivable in my book. The only way to ensure something like this doesn't happen again is to make people aware of the horrors of what did happen. Sweeping it under the carpet isn't going to help the situation at all....
Been to a lot of places in Austria, and pretty much everyone I've spoken to has a strong dislike for the Germans. Including a couple I know from the Austrian armed forces and police...
That this history isn't being taught in German schools etc is unforgivable in my book. The only way to ensure something like this doesn't happen again is to make people aware of the horrors of what did happen. Sweeping it under the carpet isn't going to help the situation at all....
#27
Originally Posted by Iain Young
That this history isn't being taught in German schools etc is unforgivable in my book...
#29
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I've been to Dachau, and Mauthausen in Austria, and in the mid 70's, stayed in Nuremburg, where I actually stood on the spot Hitler did during the rallies. Makes you feel weird!
Funnily enough, I spoke to quite a few older Germans while we were there, and although many remembered, and some even admitted that the death camps were known about by late on, I couldn't find ONE person who admitted having voted for, or supported the *****!
So who the hell were all those folk you see on the newsreels giving it the old sieg hiel?
Anyone else been to Oradour sur Glane in France? Now that's awesome too!
On my first visit, there'd been a storm and there were branches down everywhere. It looked like the Germans had just left!
Alcazar
Funnily enough, I spoke to quite a few older Germans while we were there, and although many remembered, and some even admitted that the death camps were known about by late on, I couldn't find ONE person who admitted having voted for, or supported the *****!
So who the hell were all those folk you see on the newsreels giving it the old sieg hiel?
Anyone else been to Oradour sur Glane in France? Now that's awesome too!
On my first visit, there'd been a storm and there were branches down everywhere. It looked like the Germans had just left!
Alcazar