pslewis

It seems to me, with all the reliance upon electronics these days in cars that the art of driving has been lost .......

The ability to 'feel' the car you are driving .....

The sympathy that goes with feeling as one with the car .......

The detection by ear, by feel, by sense that something is amiss .......

The skill in knowing when the tyres are about to lose grip .......

The knowledge of what is going on around you ........

All I seem to see these days is Playstation Style driving, the looking at CockLink Lights, the panic if a red is seen, the inability to hear the car, the lack of feel, the lack of sympathy for the machine ............

I shall continue to drive by the seat of my pants and with MY brain .... not some electronic brain ............

Pete

16vmarc

So are you saying the Impreza is also guilty of this or are you saying its one of the exceptions and that it is indeed an involving drive?

I know that my car is an involving drive and occasionally i have to work it, I agree though that some cars are very uninvolving.

ru'

Yeah, and we should go back to side-valve engines producing 1.2 hp from 3 litres. Maybe a bit extreme? How about points and carbs?


I kinda understand about driving skills, but what the hell has knocklink got to do with this?

Maybe we should ditch the engine management systems totally, and have an 'advance/retard' lever on the steering wheel - I guess you'd be old enough to remember these, eh pete?

As I see it the main issues with driving are the amount of traffic there is, and the fact that most of it is piloted by dead people.

pslewis

I am saying that some drivers place too much reliance upon toys, rather than driving as one with the machine ..........

It could be a skill that comes from many years driving cars where the only electric was the starter and bulbs, where you had to steer on ice with cross-ply tyres, where the brakes were pumped in an emergency, where you had to be a real man to turn the wheel left or right, where the gearbox had 4 gears, where the grease nipples needed attending to, where a red light on the dash meant that your dynamo belt had snapped and your girlfriends tights were tied round to get you home, where the clutch was cable operated and where the driving was for real ..............

We have bred a bunch of girlies, girlies who poop themselves about Oil Changes, MAF Sensors, re-maps, Octane ratings, Boost values, Rolling road results, what Oil?, what filter? what this what that

Pete

phelpsa

Get a Seven style car Pete, like a Locost!!!

Adam

Oldfella

iTrader: (3)

Hmmm, sounds like you've been driving my landrover Pete

scoobywentbang

This'd be from the "knocklink activity" thread in technical then?
Mate, gadgets are a good thing - they make things easier. Try driving an F1 car without them....
The fact technology filters down to road users is a good thing. It lets you drive without worrying whether your biggles hat will fly off (roof), your eyes will pop out (windshield), your engine will melt (knocklink).
If, as you indicate in the other thread, you're really telling me you can feel when a car is pre-igniting while remotely displaced from the engine in your seat at speed, then that's amazing....
No hard feelings eh?

Oldfella

iTrader: (3)

Scoobywentbang, why this username?

pslewis

Thats exactly the skill I'm saying has been lost ............... you say its amazing, its just feeling when something is wrong or right.

If the CockLink lets you drive without worrying then please explain why you are beside yourself because its showing a RED??

Sorry, these things are sent to scare the fooking crap out of you!

Pete

ru'

Hasn't this kinda discussion been running since man used any other form of transport than his legs?

scoobywentbang

I'm worried when the knocklink is showing a red because that means there's engine detonation. That equals piston holing or meltdown, which equals expense and inconvenience - both needlessly.

It doesn't mean I can't drive - I used to race bloody motorbikes for a living so a Scooby seems well slow. It means, here's a gadget that could and should indicate the presence of a shortcoming in fuel-burning and therefore, if I pay attention, it could save me money and more than repay the 230 quid cost of buying it and getting it fitted.

To expound your stance, you obviously don't need to look at a fuel gauge to judge whether you're going to run out on a motorway. You should as you say be able to "feel" it.

Cobblers mate, having a Knocklink does not remove the ability to drive a car.

Anyone else think
a) a Knocklink is a ***-off bit of cack that doesn't save your engine AND makes you unable to drive or
b) a sensible electronic stand-alone unit that alerts you to potential problems.

I'm called scoobywentbang cos my old engine went bang btw, thanks to a failed lamda. Guess what, I didn't thrash the car but I couldn't tell the lamda had gone either (does a lamda turn us into playstation drivers, too? er, nope). Aside from a little hesitation/surging at 3000rpm, the dead engine (for sale btw) felt the same as the type r one I've got in the car now.

pslewis

It could also mean that some other sound is lighting up the lights ............. which is exactly my point.

I have never heard of a Lambda sensor failure destoying an engine before

I have had a hesitation at 2500-3000 RPM on mine since the day I drove it away from the forecourt with 12 miles on it ................ now sitting at close to 60,000 miles with the same MAF Sensor and brake pads ..

Pete

scoobywentbang

Is yours an sti version 5 import? They eat lamdas and mafs, no question.

A stone could smack the sump and mimic top-end detonation as you say but it could just as easily (and more likely) be detonation.

The lamda can easily take the motor out. What happens to the unburnt fuel in an overly rich environment? It doesn't all go out the exhaust mate....

pslewis

Where the hell else does it go??

When I had a problem on my Calibra it destroyed the CAT, blowing apart the ceramic .............

How can unburnt fuel destroy an engine??

Pete

brihoppy

gadgets dont necessarily make it easier to drive, they make it easier (and safer) to drive at higher speeds (when appropriate of course)...why do so many people appear to think progress is a bad thing...?!

scoobywentbang

Pete, if you phone Roger Clark, Graham Goode, TSL or XtremeScoobies they'll explain.....

Alternatively, look up "bore wash" on Google....

peachy wrx

he won't bother.....so many people on SN know it all........

scoobywentbang

lol

www.ultrapartsltd.co.uk/Techdata/Timing/timing004.htm is a good place to start.

After, premature ring wear, assuming you're way too rich, what's next?

Back to you....

steffiraf

I agree with PSL. So many people on here think that more BHP equates to better driving. I dont profess to be the worlds greatest driver, but i think i might shock some of you. Its not about how much BHP you have, its how you use it. Smoothness and gear selection is the key. A good driver in a Golf TDI would wipe the floor with most of you. You will all mock and you will profess that that is not the case, but I have seen the proof. BHP does not make a better driver, it makes a bigger fool. But boys will be boys

BedHog

You've missed the point - no one is saying that electronics make them a better driver. Start a poll and ask how many people look at the knocklink while powering around a corner. I would hazard a guess most are actually looking ahead at the road......

But they do help protect the engine - and with engines running towards the limit that is necessary. I doubt anyone where with a non-turbo impreza has a knocklink - probably not many with an unmodified UK turbo have bothered. But with an import or a highly modded one it's peace of mind. Or maybe no one should modify there car - we should all drive around in standard silver turbos (no offence to anyone that has one) and talk about stamp collecting instead (no offence to anyone who collects stamps )

Who cares? If you don't want one then don't get one.

I suppose he'll suggest we are wimps cos we have an alarms fitted next. Stand outside all night with a baseball bat instead.

Or maybe we better go back to hand cranking the engine - bloody starter motors are for poofs.

NotoriousREV

scoobywentbang, ignore pslewis, he's an absolute fake in every sense of the word.

As for listening for pre-detonation, it's not always audible det that kills engines, why do you think experienced mappers (at least one mapper on here has been tuning cars since the days of points distributors and carburettors ) use det cans? Thats right, it's because it can't be heard.

If pslewis was any kind of engineer (which he clearly isn't) then of course, he'd know this.

scoobywentbang

Rev, my point EXACTLY.

How are your ears, *** or fingers gonna hear or feel detonation sitting in a comfy padded seat in a semi-sound-proofed cabin? Course they aren't - it rarely manifests outside the cylinder head.
I only have to watch my knocklink accelerating hard in 1st or 2nd to know it's telling me something I can't possibly feel. That makes me back off and contemplate a UK map (seems a shame cos I've got 320bhp at the mo from not a lot of mods).
By previous arguments, world class rally drivers should never spin off on corners either because they should be at one with the car. Ballcorks.

ru'

Same brake pads? You total girl (sorry to all the girls on here!).

jasonius

iTrader: (1)

Ahhh but you're all forgeting on important point, Worthers Originals (AKA PS Lewis) has the benefit of having his hearing aid on 'T loop' maximum. He can hear every injector pulse, every valve, any slight det infact he can hear everything.......apart from the constant DRIVEL that comes from his mouth (keyboard)..!

Plus he has a thing about the Knocklink reminding him of his 70+ cockshrink..!

pslewis

Errrrm, FALSE!!

They do NOT protect the Engine at all ... Do they retard the ignition? Do they cut the fuel? Do they undo the Mods you have made? Do they re-map the ECU for you? Do they eject that nasty, nasty petrol and inject some Octane Booster? NO!!!

The only thing that protects the Engine and car is the driver, whether they have modded the car beyond its design, whether they are thrashing the bollox off it, whether they think its cool to have a Whoooosh, whoooosh dump valve .................

And if you claim that the drivers rarely look at the CockLink lights then what is the bloody point in having them at all????????? It's because you 'think' it makes your mates think you have a really special rally car - thats why!! lets not all kid ourselves!

Pete

pslewis

Because if he didn't you would all post that he was useless, thats why

A true mechanic can hear det., can tune an engine by ear, and doesn't get taken in by the myths spoken by some hobbyist geeks ............ but then, you will all post on here that he's crap - he doesn't use Mickey Mouse stuff to make you feel special enough!

Pete

Oldfella

iTrader: (3)

Nice going Pete, I see you have initiated a "healthy" debate again.

pslewis

It's called pre-emptive driving ............ you wouldn't understand it because you clearly drive like a complete dork!! Derrrrrrr, one pedal is ON and this pedal is OFF, Derrrrrrr.

Illustrates my point beautifully, the art of driving has been lost.

Give me a 50BHP car from the 1970's and I could thrash the living daylights out of you kiddies with your 400BHP, Cocklink lit, Bass sound filled cabins ....................... you would be so tied up in your own vanity that I would slide past effortlessly on my cross-ply tyres!

Pete

pslewis

nowt wrong with a laugh on a Sunday is there now?

Pete

Oldfella

iTrader: (3)

Agreed, I have to admit it's kept me amused I'll catch up with this one later, too much work to do on my grossly overmodified and gadget reliant automobile