Dracoro

I'd like to know, by example how this will stop/combat terrorism, illegal immigration etc.

This is NOT, I repeat NOT a thread for those for or against the scheme (there's another thread for that). This is about HOW the scheme will (or not as the case may be) work.

thanks in advance.

darts_aint_sport

Because the Bomb shop will only sell to customers who have an ID card, derr!

22BUK

From no2id.net:

Will an identity card help prevent terrorism?

The government appears to have no idea. On July 3rd 2002, in response to a question by Chris Mullin MP, David Blunkett said “I accept that it is important that we do not pretend that an entitlement card would be an overwhelming factor in combating international terrorism”. Six minutes later, in answer to a question from Sir Teddy Taylor MP, he said he would not rule out the possibility of “their substantial contribution to countering terrorism”.

The Government’s current line is that an ID card will help in the fight against terrorism. However the essential facts are disputed. David Blunkett has told parliament that the security services have advised him that 35 per cent of terrorists use false identification, However Interpol general secretary Ron Noble told the House of Lords Home Affairs Committee that all terrorist incidents involve a false passport. He was unable to present evidence to support this claim. The published evidence refutes these claims. In 2004 Privacy International published the findings of the only research ever conducted on the relationship between identity cards and terrorism. It found that there was no evidence to support the claim that identity cards can combat terrorist threats.

The report stated: “The presence of an identity card is not recognised by analysts as a meaningful or significant component in anti-terrorism strategies.”

“The detailed analysis of information in the public domain in this study has produced no evidence to establish a connection between identity cards and successful anti-terrorism measures. Terrorists have traditionally moved across borders using tourist visas (such as those who were involved in the US terrorist attacks), or they are domicile and are equipped with legitimate identification cards (such as those who carried out the Madrid bombings).”

“Of the 25 countries that have been most adversely affected by terrorism since 1986, eighty per cent have national identity cards, one third of which incorporate biometrics. This research was unable to uncover any instance where the presence of an identity card system in those countries was seen as a significant deterrent to terrorist activity.”

“Almost two thirds of known terrorists operate under their true identity. The remainder use a variety of techniques to forge or impersonate identities. It is possible that the existence of a high integrity identity card would provide a measure of improved legitimacy for these people.”

“At a theoretical level, a national identity card as outlined by the UK government could only assist anti-terrorism efforts if it was used by a terrorist who was eligible and willing to register for one, if the person was using their true identity, and if intelligence data could be connected to that identity. Only a small fraction of the ninety million crossings into the UK each year are supported by comprehensive security and identity checks.”

The Bill also contains a fundamental condition that nullifies most of its claims to support counter-terrorism. David Blunkett has told the Home Affairs Committee that in order to prevent the creation of “ID card martyrs” the government would not make it a criminal offence to refuse to be registered for a card. Instead, refuseniks would be liable for a civil penalty. In view of the widespread and entrenched hostility to the scheme, this approach makes tactical – and politically essential - common sense. However, astute critics have pointed out that wealthy people or those backed by criminal organisations can avoid an ID card or registration simply by paying the recurring £2,500 fine. This fine would effectively become a tax on criminals and terrorists operating in the UK.


The government appears to be incrementally backing away from its original assertion that the card system would be a tool to prevent terrorism. In a recent press briefing, Home Office minister Des Browne said "It (the ID system) does not stop it but it helps you police it and interdict it".

Freak

That line says it all............ wait for the signs outside the cop shops- 'terrorist register this way'

rik-1

Which means when you lose your card, expect a rough ride from the police, whilst terriorists will walk by with their false ID cards.

suprabeast

they may as well just tattoo everyone with a barcode and people wont need to bother with official names... we can all just be numbers

OllyK

ID cards will stop terrorism, however, there is quite a large caveat on that. The Gestapo will need to be located at all stations, ports, airports etc checking everybody through. There will need to be large random checks carried out on the streets and you will have to show you ID card before you purchase so much as a can of coke. If they do that and arrest anybody without an ID Card you may cut the number of terrorists carrying out suicide bombings in this country from....err how many suicide bombings have we had in this country in the last couple of years???

OllyK

No - that's the joke - carrying the card will not be mandatory. So you are arrested and have to take them to your house to show them your ID card. Not sure why you can't just show them your passport, birth certifcate or driving licence at that point.

davegtt

Olly, thats what I thought, surely an ID card is nothing more than a second passport? Frigging stupid, if anything an ID card is just another form of identity which could be faked or duplicated.... giving terrorist/immigrants/any bugger else who would like another form of ID.

Bonehead

Just ANOTHER tax

Holy Ghost

[i'm shrugging & scratching my head].

i've looked at this forward, backwards, upside down, right way up, from on top, from underneath ... and the answer's still "it won't" - or rather "can't".

the only way it can get close to working as a counter-terror weapon is by compulsory application and by DNA encoding or chip implantation at birth, backed by the internment and/or deportation of those whose identity cannot be established 100%. plus the indefinite internment of anyone on the secret service's **** list. even then, the system will inevitably have loop holes that smart, motivated and well-funded people can manoeuvre around because major public sector IT projects are handled by cack-handed retards.

which leads me to the only conclusion that ID cards are a trojan horse to catalogue the law-abiding majority for reasons of civic control. or in other words, a large bag of to55!

Freak

http://www.offoffoff.com/film/2004/i...checkpoint.jpg

'"Your papers please..."
"But...im only nipping out for a pint of milk......."

"You are under arrest as we think you are bin laden"

Jonathan Davies

Carrying the card will not be mandatory initially, but the government now say (on Newsnight last night) that their intention is make them compulsory. Why do they want it? I guess cos Blunkett thinks it will make it easier to lock people up.

OllyK

That would be Clarke would it not, or has Blunkett been reinstated without me noticing?

Holy Ghost

"But I haven't got a beard!"

"Not having a beard is no defence sir."

"And I've only got one leg!"

"Lose it at the Tora Bora caves did you sir?"

"No in an accident."

"Ho ho ho, well, we can't be sure of that can we sir. Would you kindly hold still while I put these handcuffs on you and watch out for my baton sir, it seems to have a mind of its own ..."

unclebuck

I've had these lyrics in my head for a few days now:

Cruisin' down the center of a two way street
Wond'rin' who is really in the driver's seat
Mindin' my bus'ness along comes big brother
Says, "Son, you better get on one side or the other."

I'm out on the border, I'm walkin' the line
Don't you tell me 'bout your law and order
I'm try'n' to change this water to wine.

After a hard day, I'm safe at home
Foolin' with my baby on the telephone
Out of nowhere somebody cuts in and
Says, "Hmm, you in some trouble boy, we know where you're been."

I'm out on the border
I thought this was a private line
Don't you tell me 'bout your law and order
I'm try'n' to change this water to wine

Never mind your name, just give us your number, mm
Never mind your face, just show us your card, mm
And we wanna know whose wing are you under
You better step to the right or we can make it hard

I'm stuck on the border
All I wanted was some peace of mind
Don't you tell me 'bout your law and order
I'm try'n' to change this water to wine

The Eagles - On The Border.

The Zohan

They will not combat terrorism.
It is New Labias justification for their introduction.

What will help combat terrorism is better intelligence and stronger border controls.

I am not against the idea of ID cards as such but i do not like being treated like a idiot by this government.

OllyK

I am against the idea, becuase there is no real justification for having them and so the government are trying to sell some **** and bull story to get the masses to accept it. If there was a real need for them, then it may be different.

CrisPDuk

Why don't you ask the Spanish, the ID cards were a great help in prevent three separate bombs on trains from killing and injuring hundreds of people

Plus they've also been of massive assistance over the years in tracking and apprehending countless members of ETA who could otherwise have planted bombs in various tourists resorts


Oh, silly me, they're of **** ALL use in either situation, because unbeknown to politicians,

TERRORISTS DO NOT USE THEIR OWN NAMES WHEN THEY ARE COMMITTING THEIR ATROCITIES

Jap2Scrap

Presumably the cards will be made of super dense material so they weigh the same as a housebrick. They can therefore be used at airports as an effective weapon against terrorism by twatting guys with turbans and beards around the head as they step off of planes from Afghanistan.

Freak

Holy Ghost

quite.

unfortunately, the masses still are, for the most part, selfish, stupid, shallow, short-sighted, ignorant and gullible. **** & bull? they consume it for breakfast. bullsh1t? that's for lunch. mumbo-jumbo? that's supper, followed by a quick nip of unbridled to55 before bed. but such is life: it ain't perfect.

for this rubbish to be tossed in the bin of invidious, cr@p legislation, we'll be relying on a united front from the opposition benches at every bill reading plus common sense and contemptuous dismissal from the house of lords. i can't see blair risking the parliament act again.

i mean, how can you take charles clarke seriously? politically he makes tony adams look like the world's most naturally poised and graceful athlete; he hasn't managed to find the "close" setting on his razor after half a life of shaving; his suits are ill-fitting; he's got ears like the FA cup, looks like mr potato-head and has the intellectual rigour of jade goody - and that's doing jade a disservice. and ever since he had that excellent picture taken wearing a too-small plod helmet with the chin strap digging in to all 17 of his chins (which the press love to use)... well i just pee my pants and bray like a donkey everytime i see it.

sorry if that seems like unreasonably personal criticism but he's a ****. not that i've met him obviously but if i ever do i'll naturally ask him when was the last time he saw buzz lightyear.

Brendan Hughes

Hey, don't knock buzz lightyear.

Charles Clarke

i see your point. it was totally unintentional and i apologise.

Charles Clarke

damn. blown my own cover.

Holy Ghost

clarke you are a tw@t for all eternity.

Charles Clarke

correct.

OllyK

Here die-eth another sock puppet