Flatcapdriver

A simple straw pole to see how people see things currently. I'm open to suggestions as to how we solve this whole problem - constructively.

Patt@firstime

Whats 'cave in' though

Matt

OllyK

Give in and it will get 10 times worse IMO.

davegtt

Just give more guns out.. anyone looks suspicious shoot lol

Flatcapdriver

Strewth, you lot are voting before I've even finished the poll! IT - not my strong point.

Flatcapdriver

What? Like a grown ups version of British Bulldogs? Last man standing - I can think of a few neighbours I'd like to have a chat with.

davegtt

LOL... I said suspicious people not just anyone you hate

Flatcapdriver

I've just moved from one house that had no neighbours whatsoever to one with about ten. They all look suspicious to me. What happens if they want to talk to me? I'm not used to it.

davegtt

fire the scoob up and keep revving it til you cant hear them, if that fails get a louder exhaust

unclebuck

Where is the - 'Sack Blair and hope this pacifies the bombers'. option?

moses

its a no win situation if u cave in, they will say we defeated them and any foreign interest in other countries they will attack all the time

and if u dont, still stuck they will use the excuse to bring more terror and brainwash more

its fecking hard olly i agree

and i dont understand if tomorrow iraq is free, whats going to happen, r zarqawis mob gonna take over or is it gonna be like the taliban style or r the iranians gonna get the shia muslims to change the face of iraq in life with iran

or r the people gonna be free without bloodshed

so fecking hard to tell whats gonna happen

CoobyS

Given that most people have said 'terrorism won't deter us...' does that mean those people advocate the what the West is doing in the Middle East?

Petem95

I think the bombers will stop when the UK becomes an Islamic state, and is under Islamic law, isnt that their overall goal?

OllyK

Nope, the Middle East policy of the west has got us in to the mess. We need to sort it out, but caving in to the terrorists is not the way.

OllyK

I wasn't aware any of the bombers had made any claims. I know an ostensibly Islamic Fundamentalist group has claimed responsibility, but I haven't heard if they have provided a reason or any demands, if you know different can you enlighten us?

vindaloo

We have to see the lot of it through. Though even if we pull off some kind of amazing coup in Iraq and end up with an integrated, democratic, wealthy Iraqi society, it still won't stop though.

So long as the Israeli, Palestinian issue remains and so long as we need to dig minerals out of the middle east to support our infrastructure, there are going to be problems.

I want to see a working Iraqi state, post invasion. If we pull out before that, then I'm sorry but Blair and Bush need locking up. Not that we'll ever pull out IMO.

J.

moses

no bull**** if the archbishop was our prime minister and the usa had john kerry

their would have been so much peace in the world i have so much faith in these 2 guys


its a pity it will never be

OllyK

It depends, the US have fought and lost a guerilla war before, if the US casualties start to rise dramatically they could well pull out, they don't want a Vietnam 2

CoobyS

Whats the difference between 'caving into the terrorists' and 'We need to sort it out'???

OllyK

Caving in means we do whatever the terrorist want - I assume that's mostly getting the west off muslim territory.

Sorting it out - if I had the answer to that I'd be up for the Nobel peace prize.

We can't just give in or we'll become an even bigger target, but on the other hand we can't just carry on doing what we are doing either.

CoobyS

The logical fallacy I see in your argument is that you don't know what 'sorting out' is however you assert it is distinctive from 'caving in'.

What if the terrorist wants us to 'sort it out', then isn't that caving in?

OllyK

And unknown is not a logical fallacy, it is just that, an unknown.

To pull out of Iraq now would be disasterous, but we do need to pull out as quickly as possible without leaving the country in mayhem. There is a sublte difference there. How we go about achieving sufficient stability and security to allow us to pull out and let the Iraqi's govern themselves without incurring these attacks in the meantime is the million dollar question.

CoobyS

Taking an unknown and equating it to something that is known, absolutely, is a logical fallacy.

Whilst I agree that pulling out of Iraq quickly in a structured manner may go some way to solving the problems and caving in to the terrorists demands, it still leaves the question about the rest of the middle east the West has been involved in rather open.

Nothing seems to suggest that the terrorists demands is indifferent to solving the problems of the West being in the middle east.

JohnRoly

Doesn't matter what we do in the middle east, there will always be a reason for them to hate the west, it is our lifestyle and our ideals they are against.
The only way we can hope to combat this is by the Muslim communities breaking their silence and naming names. No outsiders can get inside, so the information must come from within.

Until then, unfortunately my view is tainted - I will be warming my hands by the nearest burning mosque tonight if anybody needs me (joke, before you all start throwing your toys!!!)

Martin_Aimless

That's what Tony Blair tells us, so it must be untrue.

AsifScoob

Why not just engage in hostilities, with countries/organisations that represent a genuine threat to us?

If you use this policy with consistency, I see no reason why people will attack you if they know they will get it back, seemed to work during the Cold War, think it also works in the schoolyard. With that we can formulate an exit strategy from these sorts of places, but with that warning in the background.

Before anyone says I know this is different, not a Cold War etc. However, the basic principle of "Talk softly and carry a big stick" is a clearly understood political principle, IMO.

Afghanistan and Iraq, as nations had done nothing to us, but we attacked them, people dont like that and are responding in various ways, Suicide Bombing being one of them.

I know OBL was hiding out with the Taliban, but I am sure that if there had been a (political) will there would have been a (political) way. No country in the World, even friends of theirs like Pakistan would have supported them and the Taliban would have simply handed him over, be it for a ransom or perhaps even recognition as a sovereign govt. (or some other political benefit)

So it might have taken a few months, no govt likes to be ridden roughshod over, but thats what we did to the Taliban because we wanted to take them out.

Thats what happened to Saddam too, he had dismantled everything he had in terms of WMD and just got thoroughly hacked off with continual demands for inspections etc. so threw them out. That provided the flimsiest of excuses and war was inevitable.

Just my tuppence.

Asif

AsifScoob

What a strange post?

You've read all this have you? This isn't the Mafia we're talking about, its millions of people, spread all over the country, who dont all know each other. So I should know the bombers from Leeds should I? Because I am a Muslim from London?

Oh silly me! I remember now, my old mate Abdul from Leeds was just saying the other week that he was popping down to London for a day trip on the train. I told him he could get a Same Day Saver, but he said he just wanted one way, told me he was looking for an explosive time down here! If only I had called the police!!

If only I had that sort of clairvoyancy. Get real.

As for burning mosques, I suggest someone like you shouldn't play with matches.

Asif

JohnRoly

I am not suggesting for one minute that the entire Muslim community is so close that everybody knows everybody, and I am by no means a racist (you are probably right about the matches though!!). But are you telling me that you do not live in a tight knit community?
I have been an active protestor against the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and whole heartedly disagree with our foreign policy, yet by working in London I am at risk of becoming a statistic, and that annoys me.

moses

if u do that i swear me personally will burn your *** and spread the ashes in river ********

the rook

its actually rather funny to see all you english guys ****ting yourselves now bombers are in your backyard, rather strange to think i've lasted through 25 years of ira murder and now where i live, northern ireland, is more than likely the safest part of the uk.