U.S. rave bust, caught on camera!
22 August 2005, 07:54 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 9,368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
U.S. rave bust, caught on camera!
right heres the story.
A rave goes off in Utah in the US. By all accounts its 100% licenced and legal. But Dubya is in town the next day, so the rave gets busted.
Not with coppers in riot gear, but with the national guard, automatic rifles, attack dogs and helicopter support!
video of the bust can be found here http://www.unnet.net/crap/facism.mov I like the bit at the end where the cameraman is "persuaded" to put the camera down, you can hear a gun being cocked!
The rave I was at on saturday was policed by one copper in a patrol car and he said he had better things to do and let us go on till 10am!
Americans, dont you love their sense of proportionality? American ravers are predominantly candy kids, they look like this ffs:
http://bieniosek.com/gallery/view_ph...andy_ravers_25
I think automatic rifles and helicopters are a little ott.
astraboy.
A rave goes off in Utah in the US. By all accounts its 100% licenced and legal. But Dubya is in town the next day, so the rave gets busted.
Not with coppers in riot gear, but with the national guard, automatic rifles, attack dogs and helicopter support!
video of the bust can be found here http://www.unnet.net/crap/facism.mov I like the bit at the end where the cameraman is "persuaded" to put the camera down, you can hear a gun being cocked!
The rave I was at on saturday was policed by one copper in a patrol car and he said he had better things to do and let us go on till 10am!
Americans, dont you love their sense of proportionality? American ravers are predominantly candy kids, they look like this ffs:
http://bieniosek.com/gallery/view_ph...andy_ravers_25
I think automatic rifles and helicopters are a little ott.
astraboy.
22 August 2005, 08:08 PM
#2
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Holy Jesus
I've been reading up recently about the supposed Police State(Patriot Act, National Guard use as police etc) being implemented in the United States, I was finding it hard to believe but this pretty much confirms it for me.
That is total insanity, I feel sick watching it.
Was there any US mainstream media coverage of this?
I've been reading up recently about the supposed Police State(Patriot Act, National Guard use as police etc) being implemented in the United States, I was finding it hard to believe but this pretty much confirms it for me.
That is total insanity, I feel sick watching it.
Was there any US mainstream media coverage of this?
Last edited by Angry; 22 August 2005 at 08:31 PM.
22 August 2005, 08:15 PM
#3
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 9,368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apparantly they are trying to stir as much media up as possible, but with every major network being controlled by those lloyal to bush then its not going to get far.
Here's the sherriff's dept. press release, to get both sides of the story. According to them it was not 100% legal, although I like the fact they admitted to nicking security for posession of drugs which they had confiscated at the gate
astraboy.
Here's the sherriff's dept. press release, to get both sides of the story. According to them it was not 100% legal, although I like the fact they admitted to nicking security for posession of drugs which they had confiscated at the gate
astraboy.
22 August 2005, 08:15 PM
#4
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 9,368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
22 August 2005, 09:19 PM
#6
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 430
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was Djing at an all nighter at the weekend in an old Scottish castle. Absolutely awesome vibe, it went on till 12pm the next day. 250 people two rooms one techno one house! Fantastic!
Iain
Iain
22 August 2005, 09:50 PM
#7
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Throwing myself down a mountain at every opportunity...
Posts: 6,794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by astraboy
right heres the story.
A rave goes off in Utah in the US. By all accounts its 100% licenced and legal. But Dubya is in town the next day, so the rave gets busted.
Not with coppers in riot gear, but with the national guard, automatic rifles, attack dogs and helicopter support!
video of the bust can be found here http://www.unnet.net/crap/facism.mov I like the bit at the end where the cameraman is "persuaded" to put the camera down, you can hear a gun being cocked!
The rave I was at on saturday was policed by one copper in a patrol car and he said he had better things to do and let us go on till 10am!
Americans, dont you love their sense of proportionality? American ravers are predominantly candy kids, they look like this ffs:
http://bieniosek.com/gallery/view_ph...andy_ravers_25
I think automatic rifles and helicopters are a little ott.
astraboy.
A rave goes off in Utah in the US. By all accounts its 100% licenced and legal. But Dubya is in town the next day, so the rave gets busted.
Not with coppers in riot gear, but with the national guard, automatic rifles, attack dogs and helicopter support!
video of the bust can be found here http://www.unnet.net/crap/facism.mov I like the bit at the end where the cameraman is "persuaded" to put the camera down, you can hear a gun being cocked!
The rave I was at on saturday was policed by one copper in a patrol car and he said he had better things to do and let us go on till 10am!
Americans, dont you love their sense of proportionality? American ravers are predominantly candy kids, they look like this ffs:
http://bieniosek.com/gallery/view_ph...andy_ravers_25
I think automatic rifles and helicopters are a little ott.
astraboy.
How often are you in london?
I'm moving back, and need to get rid of some stuff as my new place is much smaller than here.
I have a huge number (hundreds) of late eighties and early nineties rave flyers and mix tapes if you want em????
Trending Topics
22 August 2005, 11:09 PM
#10
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: JFK/LHR
Posts: 3,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ed pm me too- especially if you have some 12" up for grabs
With regards to the event- i was told it was fully 100% legal....and i saw that video earler today along with another few.
This is a supposed very relaxed state too.
With regards to the event- i was told it was fully 100% legal....and i saw that video earler today along with another few.
This is a supposed very relaxed state too.
23 August 2005, 02:41 AM
#11
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Edcase
astraboy.
How often are you in london?
I'm moving back, and need to get rid of some stuff as my new place is much smaller than here.
I have a huge number (hundreds) of late eighties and early nineties rave flyers and mix tapes if you want em????
How often are you in london?
I'm moving back, and need to get rid of some stuff as my new place is much smaller than here.
I have a huge number (hundreds) of late eighties and early nineties rave flyers and mix tapes if you want em????
At least keep the flyers. I trawled all over London for some of them at the tender age of 14!Re: the subject. Where's the footage gone? Blocked by the Feds?
Reading the text, it reminds of the scene from The Wall when Pink and his neo-facists raid that gig. IIRC Walters chose to set the scene in the States and Pink's "Party" was formed off the back of him descending into madness - very prophetic.
Also, the sleeve artwork from Music for the Jilted Generation, where the ravers are seen defending themselves against the riot police. The prominent figure being a lad cutting the rope bridge which, for me, always spanned the metorphorical gap between "us and them".
Would be grateful to any one who can repost the footage. Afterall, we don't need no thought control.....
Last edited by JTaylor; 24 August 2005 at 12:40 AM.
23 August 2005, 04:34 AM
#12
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by unclebuck
That's Mormon country.
Jeez, you're not even allowed alchohol there. A 'rave' would be considered the devil's work.
Jeez, you're not even allowed alchohol there. A 'rave' would be considered the devil's work.
Still not a state I would have guessed to be accepting of even a legal rave.
23 August 2005, 08:50 AM
#15
Scooby Senior
Rave in Utah = Bull in a China Shop. I'm all for raving, but if they had any sense they'd have crossed the border into Nevada. Saying that, on my last trip to Burningman the police were very much present.
23 August 2005, 11:19 AM
#16
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 9,368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
23 August 2005, 04:59 PM
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
as posted by Knick/Evol Intent (One of the DJs booked that nite)
-------------
Last night, I was booked to play an event about an hour outside of Salt Lake City, Utah. The hype behind this show was huge, they presold 700 tickets and they expected up to 3,000 people total. The promoters did an amazing job with the show.. they even made slipmats with the flyers on them to promote in local shops.
So, we got to the show around 11:15 or so and it was really cool. It was all outdoors, in a valley surrounded by huge mountains. They had an amazing light show flashing on to a mountain behind the site, the sound was booming, the crowd was about 1500 people thick and everything just seemed too good to be true really. Well...
At about 11:30 or so, I was standing behind the stage talking with someone when I noticed a helicopter pulling over one of the mountain tops. I jokingly said "Oh look, here comes big brother" to the person I was with. I wasn't far off.
The helicopter dipped lower and lower and started shining its lights on the crowd. I was kind of in awe and just sat and watched this thing circle us for a minute. As I looked back towards the crowd I saw a guy dressed in camoflauge walking by, toting an assault rifle. At this point, everyone was fully aware of what was going on . A few "troops" rushed the stage and cut the sound off and started yelling that everyone "get the *beep* out of here or go to jail". This is where it got really sticky.
No one resisted. That's for sure. They had police dogs raiding the crowd of people and I saw a dog signal out a guy who obviously had some drugs on him. The soldiers attacked the guy (4 of them on 1), and kicked him a few times in the ribs and had their knees in his back and sides. As they were cuffing him, there was about 1000 kids trying to leave in the backdrop, peacefully. Next thing I know, A can of *beep* TEAR GAS is launched into the crowd. People are running and screaming at this point. Girls are crying, guys are cussing... bad scene.
Now, this is all I saw with my own eyes, but I heard plenty of other accounts of the night. Now this isnt gossip I heard from some candy raver, these are instances cited straight out of the promoters mouth..
- One of the promoters friends (a very small female) was attacked by one of the police dogs. As she struggled to get away from it, the police tackled her. 3 grown men proceeded to KICK HER IN THE STOMACH.
- The police confiscated 3 video tapes in total. People were trying to document what was happening out there. The police saw one guy filming and ran after him, tackled him and his camera fell, and luckily.. his friend grabbed it and ran and got away. priceless footage. That's not all though. Out of 1,500 people, there's sure to be more footage.
- The police were rounding up the staff of the party and the main promoter went up to them with the permit for the show and said "here, I have the permit." The police then said, "no you don't" and ripped the permit out of his hand. Then, they put an assault rifle to his forehead and said "get the *beep* out of here right now."
Now.. let's get the facts straight here.
This event was 100% legal. They had every permit the city told them they needed. They had a 2 MILLION DOLLAR insurance policy for the event. They had liscenced security guards at the gates confiscating any alcohol or drugs found upon entry (yes, they searched every car on the way in). Oh, I suppose I should mention that they arrested all the security guards for possession.
Oh another interesting fact.. the police did not have a warrant. The owner of the land already has a lawsuit against the city for something similar. A few months ago, she rented her land for a party and the police raided that as well. And catch this, the police forced her to LEAVE HER OWN PERSONAL PROPERTY. That's right. They didnt arrest her, but made her leave her own property!!!
Don't get it twisted, this is all going down in probably THE most conservative state in the USA. And this is scary.. a gross violation of our civil liberties. The police wanted this party shut down, so they made it happen. Even though everything about this event was legal. The promoters spent over $ 20,000 on this show and did everything they had to to make it legit, only to have it taken away from them by a group of radical neo-con's with an agenda.
This was one of the scariest things I have ever witnessed in person. I can't even begin to describe how surreal it was. Helicopters, assault rifles, tear gas, camoflauge-wearing soldiers.... why? Was that really necessary?
This needs to be big news across the USofA. At least in our music scene (edm as a whole)... this could happen to any of us at any time. When we're losing the right to gather peacefully, we're also letting the police set a standard of what we can get away with. And I think that's BULL****!
The system *beep* up last night... They broke up a party that was 100% legal and they physically hurt a lot of people there at the same time. The promoters already have 6 lawsuits ready to file with their lawyers and the ACLU is already involved.
I'm sure some pictures (and hopefully some video) will surface soon. I'll make sure to post them up here on 404, so you can see the Police State of America at work.
-------------
Last night, I was booked to play an event about an hour outside of Salt Lake City, Utah. The hype behind this show was huge, they presold 700 tickets and they expected up to 3,000 people total. The promoters did an amazing job with the show.. they even made slipmats with the flyers on them to promote in local shops.
So, we got to the show around 11:15 or so and it was really cool. It was all outdoors, in a valley surrounded by huge mountains. They had an amazing light show flashing on to a mountain behind the site, the sound was booming, the crowd was about 1500 people thick and everything just seemed too good to be true really. Well...
At about 11:30 or so, I was standing behind the stage talking with someone when I noticed a helicopter pulling over one of the mountain tops. I jokingly said "Oh look, here comes big brother" to the person I was with. I wasn't far off.
The helicopter dipped lower and lower and started shining its lights on the crowd. I was kind of in awe and just sat and watched this thing circle us for a minute. As I looked back towards the crowd I saw a guy dressed in camoflauge walking by, toting an assault rifle. At this point, everyone was fully aware of what was going on . A few "troops" rushed the stage and cut the sound off and started yelling that everyone "get the *beep* out of here or go to jail". This is where it got really sticky.
No one resisted. That's for sure. They had police dogs raiding the crowd of people and I saw a dog signal out a guy who obviously had some drugs on him. The soldiers attacked the guy (4 of them on 1), and kicked him a few times in the ribs and had their knees in his back and sides. As they were cuffing him, there was about 1000 kids trying to leave in the backdrop, peacefully. Next thing I know, A can of *beep* TEAR GAS is launched into the crowd. People are running and screaming at this point. Girls are crying, guys are cussing... bad scene.
Now, this is all I saw with my own eyes, but I heard plenty of other accounts of the night. Now this isnt gossip I heard from some candy raver, these are instances cited straight out of the promoters mouth..
- One of the promoters friends (a very small female) was attacked by one of the police dogs. As she struggled to get away from it, the police tackled her. 3 grown men proceeded to KICK HER IN THE STOMACH.
- The police confiscated 3 video tapes in total. People were trying to document what was happening out there. The police saw one guy filming and ran after him, tackled him and his camera fell, and luckily.. his friend grabbed it and ran and got away. priceless footage. That's not all though. Out of 1,500 people, there's sure to be more footage.
- The police were rounding up the staff of the party and the main promoter went up to them with the permit for the show and said "here, I have the permit." The police then said, "no you don't" and ripped the permit out of his hand. Then, they put an assault rifle to his forehead and said "get the *beep* out of here right now."
Now.. let's get the facts straight here.
This event was 100% legal. They had every permit the city told them they needed. They had a 2 MILLION DOLLAR insurance policy for the event. They had liscenced security guards at the gates confiscating any alcohol or drugs found upon entry (yes, they searched every car on the way in). Oh, I suppose I should mention that they arrested all the security guards for possession.
Oh another interesting fact.. the police did not have a warrant. The owner of the land already has a lawsuit against the city for something similar. A few months ago, she rented her land for a party and the police raided that as well. And catch this, the police forced her to LEAVE HER OWN PERSONAL PROPERTY. That's right. They didnt arrest her, but made her leave her own property!!!
Don't get it twisted, this is all going down in probably THE most conservative state in the USA. And this is scary.. a gross violation of our civil liberties. The police wanted this party shut down, so they made it happen. Even though everything about this event was legal. The promoters spent over $ 20,000 on this show and did everything they had to to make it legit, only to have it taken away from them by a group of radical neo-con's with an agenda.
This was one of the scariest things I have ever witnessed in person. I can't even begin to describe how surreal it was. Helicopters, assault rifles, tear gas, camoflauge-wearing soldiers.... why? Was that really necessary?
This needs to be big news across the USofA. At least in our music scene (edm as a whole)... this could happen to any of us at any time. When we're losing the right to gather peacefully, we're also letting the police set a standard of what we can get away with. And I think that's BULL****!
The system *beep* up last night... They broke up a party that was 100% legal and they physically hurt a lot of people there at the same time. The promoters already have 6 lawsuits ready to file with their lawyers and the ACLU is already involved.
I'm sure some pictures (and hopefully some video) will surface soon. I'll make sure to post them up here on 404, so you can see the Police State of America at work.
23 August 2005, 05:27 PM
#20
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Police State Definition
"Police state refers to a state in which the government maintains strict control over the population, particularly through suspension of civil rights, usually by means of a force of secret police. Given that it thwarts, or at least ignores, the will of its citizens, a police state is inherently anti-democratic"
this site, although not always entirely objective, makes for interesting reading.
"Police state refers to a state in which the government maintains strict control over the population, particularly through suspension of civil rights, usually by means of a force of secret police. Given that it thwarts, or at least ignores, the will of its citizens, a police state is inherently anti-democratic"
this site, although not always entirely objective, makes for interesting reading.
23 August 2005, 06:57 PM
#21
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That site belongs to Alex Jones, as you say not always objective, but he sure does raise a helluva lot of pertinent questions on a lot of sensitive issues.
It looks like this is also happening elsewhere in the world. I posted this up on the PhaseIII.org forums and a member there posted this up:
It looks like this is also happening elsewhere in the world. I posted this up on the PhaseIII.org forums and a member there posted this up:
Originally Posted by baztrad from PhaseIII.org Forums
Whats going on in the world? The military should be sent to the White house or the houses of parliament to do them. Not ordinary people having fun.
Thats harsh.
It's funny you should mention this as I've come across something the same, but this time in the Czech republic.
I had to quote the text from: http://control-alt-delete.ca/v-web/b...highlight=rave
as you need to register in order to view the thread.
Theres some video links but the host's transfer rate sucks.
A 1mb file took ages.
I could attack the url's for the vid links but they are honestly slow as ****.
Thats harsh.
It's funny you should mention this as I've come across something the same, but this time in the Czech republic.
I had to quote the text from: http://control-alt-delete.ca/v-web/b...highlight=rave
as you need to register in order to view the thread.
"Czechtek is open-air international and multicultural music festival with 12 year tradition. Not only different genres of music,mostly Tekno offcourse, also some Acid,Core,Jungle, .... but also videoart and other art performances take place on this unique event of free culture.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In all history of festival there were no significant damages or problems,
participants while leaving clean the land and take responsibility for
their action.
Contract with the owner of grass plain was clearly shown to police. There
is no indicaion that festival was in any way illegal, every aspect was
according to law of Czech Republic.
Although police stated throughout friday 29th several different reasons
for blockage of access to the place of festival, all were later shown as
lies or desinformation. The final reason for brute attack was "threat of
damaging the surrounding private pieces of land".
The presence of attending young people on surrounding land was caused by police blockage of all roads and the police action was not taken against
this people, but against the people on legally borrowed property.
Woman from near willage, owner of adjoining land, said she had been woken up by police friday morning, long before people began to arrive, taken to police station and by false arguments encouraged to sign complaint.
Most of the people did not hear any appeal to leave the place, many of
them had drunk alcohol-containing beverages and could not go away with
cars, many of them believed that by taking part on legally organized
festival they cannot be targeted by police.
The first police action on saturday 30, 16:30PM took several hours and was badly coordinated. On the place was 1000 policemen, water cannon, armoured tank and low-flying helicopter.
The second night attack at 22PM was led with extreme brutality.
Police in heavy suits without identifying numbers refused to give
identifying information, information about their command and information
about first aid location.
Police used massive amounts of tear gas and desorientation grenades, in
many cases they threw tear gas granade into a car and did not let people
inside for long time get out, in other cases they broke car windows by
iron bars, threw grenade in and forced people to get out.
All people were beaten up, including teenage girls, which cried in pain.
Witnesses described attack on lone staing girl, who was pulled down by her hair and kicked on the ground by four policemen.
There were hundreds of injuries, including cuts, bruises, burnings, broken
arms, shock. Many people were in shock still the next day afternoon with
red faces from tear gas.
Police intentionally damaged cars, electronic equipment and other
property. Attack was led with clear intention to cause injuries.
People were forced to go to near highway, which was closed several hours
and then the waiting trucks were allowed to go dangerously among the
desoriented people. Police confirmed death of young man attending the
festival. Reportedly he was killed by truck which left. The reason of this
death can be manipulated by police, no wittnesses were found to confirm
police statement.
Police brutality continued on scattered people till the sunday morning.
Czech state television Czech TV did not inform about the night attack,
it's news were not balanced, mainly repeating police statements. Czech TV
in its news also under estimated political value of call of freedom and
resignation of minister of interior on sunday's demonstration in Prague,
reporting briefly about techno-goers.
This is a call to foreing media to publish information about unlawful
police brutality and state of democracy and human rights in Czech Republic. !!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In all history of festival there were no significant damages or problems,
participants while leaving clean the land and take responsibility for
their action.
Contract with the owner of grass plain was clearly shown to police. There
is no indicaion that festival was in any way illegal, every aspect was
according to law of Czech Republic.
Although police stated throughout friday 29th several different reasons
for blockage of access to the place of festival, all were later shown as
lies or desinformation. The final reason for brute attack was "threat of
damaging the surrounding private pieces of land".
The presence of attending young people on surrounding land was caused by police blockage of all roads and the police action was not taken against
this people, but against the people on legally borrowed property.
Woman from near willage, owner of adjoining land, said she had been woken up by police friday morning, long before people began to arrive, taken to police station and by false arguments encouraged to sign complaint.
Most of the people did not hear any appeal to leave the place, many of
them had drunk alcohol-containing beverages and could not go away with
cars, many of them believed that by taking part on legally organized
festival they cannot be targeted by police.
The first police action on saturday 30, 16:30PM took several hours and was badly coordinated. On the place was 1000 policemen, water cannon, armoured tank and low-flying helicopter.
The second night attack at 22PM was led with extreme brutality.
Police in heavy suits without identifying numbers refused to give
identifying information, information about their command and information
about first aid location.
Police used massive amounts of tear gas and desorientation grenades, in
many cases they threw tear gas granade into a car and did not let people
inside for long time get out, in other cases they broke car windows by
iron bars, threw grenade in and forced people to get out.
All people were beaten up, including teenage girls, which cried in pain.
Witnesses described attack on lone staing girl, who was pulled down by her hair and kicked on the ground by four policemen.
There were hundreds of injuries, including cuts, bruises, burnings, broken
arms, shock. Many people were in shock still the next day afternoon with
red faces from tear gas.
Police intentionally damaged cars, electronic equipment and other
property. Attack was led with clear intention to cause injuries.
People were forced to go to near highway, which was closed several hours
and then the waiting trucks were allowed to go dangerously among the
desoriented people. Police confirmed death of young man attending the
festival. Reportedly he was killed by truck which left. The reason of this
death can be manipulated by police, no wittnesses were found to confirm
police statement.
Police brutality continued on scattered people till the sunday morning.
Czech state television Czech TV did not inform about the night attack,
it's news were not balanced, mainly repeating police statements. Czech TV
in its news also under estimated political value of call of freedom and
resignation of minister of interior on sunday's demonstration in Prague,
reporting briefly about techno-goers.
This is a call to foreing media to publish information about unlawful
police brutality and state of democracy and human rights in Czech Republic. !!!!
Theres some video links but the host's transfer rate sucks.
A 1mb file took ages.
I could attack the url's for the vid links but they are honestly slow as ****.
23 August 2005, 08:39 PM
#22
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That really ***** me off.
It's this sort of thing that I think of when arguing against serveillance, ID cards etc. If it became so bad (I already think it is) that people wanted to organise a rebellion / resistance - we wouldn't be able to because we'd be pinned and dealt with straight away. It would be virtually impossible to go underground.
In days gone by the myriad threats of revolution, uprising and couq have meant the west remained governed by the people, for the people. My concern is that as all encompassing control becomes a reality, dissent will be oppressed rather then heeded as a warning of a pending threat to power and the status quo.
The most appaling arguement I hear in favour of the Policed State is "well, if you've got nothing to hide". That just kills me and yet, it's so popular.
It's this sort of thing that I think of when arguing against serveillance, ID cards etc. If it became so bad (I already think it is) that people wanted to organise a rebellion / resistance - we wouldn't be able to because we'd be pinned and dealt with straight away. It would be virtually impossible to go underground.
In days gone by the myriad threats of revolution, uprising and couq have meant the west remained governed by the people, for the people. My concern is that as all encompassing control becomes a reality, dissent will be oppressed rather then heeded as a warning of a pending threat to power and the status quo.
The most appaling arguement I hear in favour of the Policed State is "well, if you've got nothing to hide". That just kills me and yet, it's so popular.
Last edited by JTaylor; 23 August 2005 at 11:57 PM.
23 August 2005, 08:56 PM
#23
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by JTaylor
My concern is that as all encompassing control becomes more of a reality, dissent will be oppressed rather then heeded as a warning of a pending threat to power and the status quo.
The new legislation that our Gov't wan't to bring in mirrors the Patriot Act quite scarily.
We need to oppose this on any level possible, as well as ID cards which go hand in hand with everything that I see on the horizon.
Originally Posted by JTaylor
The most appaling arguement I hear in favour of the Policed State is "well, if you've got nothing to hide". That just kills me and yet, it's so popular.
23 August 2005, 09:15 PM
#24
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Angry
I always just rebuff "nothing to hide except my privacy"
I've got loads more to add to this thread (sorry) but need to pop out. BBL.
24 August 2005, 12:32 AM
#26
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"yeah, but it'll be safer" is another blood boiler.
Lots of people really couldn't give a **** and many are in favour. "ID cards? So what". "If you aren't speeding you don't have to worry about the cameras" "Serveillance, ah well at least they can ID anyone tryng to nick my car". Which raises the question of hoodies. I've heard so many people say they are in favour of the ban on hoodies; this translates as a yes vote for surveillance (I'd rather the Chav scum and thieving smack heads were dealt with (fairly) by the local hierachy, this would be far more effective in terms of encouraging sociable behaviour).
I don't feel paroniod when out and about and I don't feel overly conscious about posting my views on a public forum. There is however, something eerily reminiscent of Orwellian literature on the horizon in the States and often, when America sneezes we catch the cold. For now, I don't feel as though Britain is oppressive, but I do believe those that care should make it their responsibility to warn and inform others of the potential dangers.
As you alluded to in an earlier post, much legislation has been rushed through under the guise of security and safety both here and across the pond (more so in the States, at the moment). Fear seems to be fostered via the media, constant stories of theft, murder, terrorist threats and the chavette "singer" from X factor are flashed across our screens and splashed atop the papers. No wonder John Bull and his family are beginning to embrace the hand of their protector.
Orwell summed it up rather more succinctly:
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
Lots of people really couldn't give a **** and many are in favour. "ID cards? So what". "If you aren't speeding you don't have to worry about the cameras" "Serveillance, ah well at least they can ID anyone tryng to nick my car". Which raises the question of hoodies. I've heard so many people say they are in favour of the ban on hoodies; this translates as a yes vote for surveillance (I'd rather the Chav scum and thieving smack heads were dealt with (fairly) by the local hierachy, this would be far more effective in terms of encouraging sociable behaviour).
I don't feel paroniod when out and about and I don't feel overly conscious about posting my views on a public forum. There is however, something eerily reminiscent of Orwellian literature on the horizon in the States and often, when America sneezes we catch the cold. For now, I don't feel as though Britain is oppressive, but I do believe those that care should make it their responsibility to warn and inform others of the potential dangers.
As you alluded to in an earlier post, much legislation has been rushed through under the guise of security and safety both here and across the pond (more so in the States, at the moment). Fear seems to be fostered via the media, constant stories of theft, murder, terrorist threats and the chavette "singer" from X factor are flashed across our screens and splashed atop the papers. No wonder John Bull and his family are beginning to embrace the hand of their protector.
Orwell summed it up rather more succinctly:
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
24 August 2005, 02:39 AM
#29
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Tiggs
Did Orwell go to many raves to get high on illegal drugs while a variety of crime went on around him?
24 August 2005, 03:08 AM
#30
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
seriously ya'll. utah's not the place for a rave. the vatican is more likely to consent to it than salt lake.
i've got family out there. no one drinks. caffiene is frowned upon, do you seriously think they'll let anyone drink? or party hard?
having the place trashed while w comes through is bad for the community. but i don't think they should've done what they did. the feds shouldn't have busted it. but there's better places to have a party tho, nothing would've happened if it was in nevada or wyoming or colorado.
i've got family out there. no one drinks. caffiene is frowned upon, do you seriously think they'll let anyone drink? or party hard?
having the place trashed while w comes through is bad for the community. but i don't think they should've done what they did. the feds shouldn't have busted it. but there's better places to have a party tho, nothing would've happened if it was in nevada or wyoming or colorado.