Deep Singh

Anybody done this?

Any tips about what to look for in a good school?

Any recommendations for a good school in Essex?

Deep

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Looking too

Cambs area

Simon C

My mates just about to fly out to the states to do his. He's going to the same school that trained the terrorists!!! He is currently trying to get all the american jokes out of his system now.

Leslie

Hope you are well off!

Les

KiwiGTI

Cabair are good. Well the Elstree one anyway.

www.cabair.com

JackClark

Ouch, £100.00 an hour for a Cessna 172!

Get a Paramotor and take off from your garden, much easier and no licence or insurance needed.... but recommended.

Simon C

Yes its expensive, my mate is paying £4k to do it in the states all in, inc flights and hotel.

Flatcapdriver

First of all I'd ask yourself some questions as to why you want to do it because its not a cheap past time and way too many people get their PPL, never to fly again mainly due to the prohibitive costs.

On the downside there are various negatives to flying in the UK.

Wet or dry - renting aircraft is expensive ranging from £100.00 to £145.00 per hour on top of which you'll have landing fees.

The weather is against you over here with true VMC difficult to come by with low cloud base/poor visibility/rain or just plain **** weather which limits your time in the air. Most clubs will insist that fly at least once per month which can be difficult in winter and expensive for cloud dodging.

Air space is fairly restrictive around the UK due to lack of space and number of airports, particularly around London so routing can be a bit of a 'mare sometimes.

In my opinion the general standard of UK aircraft is not that high compared to countries such as RSA but there are newer aircraft such as Katanas/DA 40s and Cirrus which are nice to fly with modern avionics.

Having said that there are some real benefits.

The lack of Class D airspace etc is a benefit and you get a great sense of achievement once you've negotiated round Heathrow or pulled of a MATZ penetration and wound up Les's mates.

France, Spain and Africa are on your doorstep so there is plenty of touring to be had and a cheap meal and some booze from occupied France kinda makes you think you're getting a deal.

When you finally get blue skies there is nothing better than pootling along the south coast over the white cliffs imagining you're a Spitfire ace waiting to ambush the Hun until some berk requests a radio check which brings you back to earth - not literally.

I can't recommend any schools but I would recommend the following:

Check whether the rental costs are chock to chock or start time.

Find out what the landing fees are.

Make sure the club has adequate insurance and that you are covered on their policy.

Never stump up a large sum for hours in advance unless you are 100% sure the club is financially sound.

Give up dreaming about becoming an airline pilot because it aint gonna happen.

Prepare to shell out circa 8 to 10 thousand to get the PPL as you have to factor in bad weather and its unlikely you'll do it in 45 hours although I managed it in 43 but I was lucky with the weather.

Wait until about hour 20 before you buy your own head set.

Use several different instructors so that you get a good range of teaching and don't pick up one instructor's bad habits.

Do some gliding - this will teach you use the rudder effectively which most powered pilots don't.

I could go on...

Leslie

@ FCD, but so true!

Good advice above, it is very expensive and if you take to it, a wonderful hobby,Wish I could afford to do it now.

Its true about use of the rudder, particularly on single piston aircraft. Funnily enough on the Vulcan you had to use more rudder than aileron at slow speeds due to the adverse yaw due to the controls in the aileron sense.

Have a trial flight which most clubs offer to see if you take to it or not, you will soon know.

Les

Nicci

My dad got his ppl at stapleford (near M11/m25) 2 or 3 years ago.
It took him a few months longer than expected due to the poor weather (so lessons were cancelled).

He was happy with the training and continues to fly there on a regular basis.

Deep Singh

Thanks for the input. Some responses to issues raised

I am not thinking of becoming a pilot, I have a full time job!

Don't fancy a Paramotor,think I'd look a bit of a prat

Expensive yes. But is it really anymore expensive than for example doing regular track days after dialing inthe cost of car/tyres/brakes etc?

I take the point on weather, other people have mentioned that also. I want a new hobby and counted out learning to sail because of the weather!

FCD, you reckon £10k but I've seen some clubs advertising the whole thing for circa £5k. Are they not telling me about hidden costs?

Many thanks for the help so far

Deep

Flatcapdriver

If you do one of the intensive courses such as those advertised in Fat Land, then you may come out with a bit of paper but a good pilot you aint. The trouble with intensive courses is that you are schooled to pass the GFT and the experience leaves little time for making mistakes and subsequently learning. You can do these for £5k.

Due to weather interruptions in the UK its unlikely that you'll complete the course in the required 45 hours. I think the average is around 60 hours and most clubs aren't going to give you a realistic figure as it sounds too much.

On top of this you have landing fees plus exam costs which most schools don't advertise but by all means go with the cheapest option if that's what you want. Remember though, you pays your money and you get your goods.

Sailing is far cheaper and the UK has an abundance of good water so why not try that? The weather doesn't matter so much and you can reliably sail in winter too. I'm not trying to put you off but I've seen too many people "waste" their money and not fly after their PPL and although my income is fairly good I still can't fly as much as I should nor as much as I want to.

andy97

iTrader: (1)

£5k is the price if you manage to reach the standard in 45 hours, but it can take a bit more flying time, hence upto £10k if your a Dot from Eastenders in flying ability


Andy

scoobyloopy

well thats popped my bubble.

what would it take to become a airline pilot?

Deep Singh

FCD, useful info. Why is the regular flying so prohibitive? If its about an hour or two a month at £100/hour then thats no more than I used to spend on cigarettes a month!

Andy I should hope I can better Dot Cotton a little!!

Deep

scoobyloopy

if only I had 40k but will check easyjets website

scoobyloopy

Had a read on easyjet website and this is what it takes:

Need to pay £60,000 to get on the training

pay £3000 to get your PPL

then after all that they pay ****

First Officer £21,060
Senior First Officer £28,584
Captains £54,938

I've dont better going to Uni

dsmith

LOL - From someone who used to fly Bulldogs with NUAS from Leeming and got shunted off to orbit everytime some bloody Tornado jock even thought about landing at some point that afternoon

cheddar bob

Is it similar sort of costs for a helicoptor licence~?

dsmith

from here

The Private Pilot's Licence (PPL(H))

This is the entry-level qualification, which allows you to fly yourself and your friends or colleagues for purely private purposes. Flying "for hire or reward" (even in kind) is expressly forbidden, which means you cannot charge for your services.



The JAA approved flying course stipulates a minimum of 45 flight hours, gained both under instruction and solo (a current fixed wing PPL entitles you to a 10% (maximum of 10 hours) dispensation on that). Ground exams in related subjects and an aviation medical must also be taken, and the entire package is available in your local area from any Registered Training Facility (RTF). Charges do vary, however as a rough guide you might expect to pay between £175 and £280 per flying hour, so a PPL(H) can cost upwards of £10,000. In addition, fees are levied by the CAA for such things as a medical certificate, flight skill test, examinations and of course to issue the actual licence once you have qualified!

Unlike a driving licence, once the PPL is attained it is important to remain in practice as the regulations call for a minimum of 2 hours flying for each helicopter type or group of types per year plus an annual proficiency test with an examiner. Additionally, to enable you to carry passengers you must have completed at least one flight within the preceding 90 days.

Brit_in_Japan

A friend of mine has a PPL. I know that he has had some great trips, but just as many disappointments with bad weather ruining plans. One of the highlights was when his flying club got a new aircraft and they sold the old one to another flying club. Part of the deal was they deliver it, to Cyprus! I forget how many little airfields they had to call in at en route with this Cessna, but they had a fine old time. I still remember getting a phone call at work on Monday morning and him telling me he would be a day late returning because he had to stay in Greece an extra day as the airfield was closed on Sundays

JackClark

If image is more important than the ability to take off, navigate and land you're on the wrong foot already. The planes rented out for £100 p/h are not exactly stylish.

bugsti

I have a ppl A (fixed wing) with around 200 hours.

You should be able to learn for around £4500 in the UK. Some schools do packages. Try to go to a school where landing fees are included (you will do a lot of them). If you learn in the UK it will take longer than one of the US intensive courses. However, if you learn the skills quickly over a short period of time you may also forget them quickly. Something learnt over a longer period of time tends to stay in the brain longer.

In my experience the most cost effective way to fly after getting your ppl is to buy a share in a group owned aircraft. This could easily cut the hourly cost by a half.

There is a new licence called a NPPL which requires less training (therefore less cost) but restricts flight to Visual Flight Rules, daytime and UK only.

Flatcapdriver

I don't recall saying flying is prohibitive. What do you mean? In my opinion you should be doing around three hours per month - minimum. Say one hour of circuits and a couple of cross country flights landing at unfamiliar airfields to increase your experience but all this will do is maintain a standard of airmanship, it won't improve your skills. The cost for this is around £390.00 for the aircraft (wet) plus landing fees which could add another £100.00 for landing fees and touch and bumps so you're looking at £500.00 per month.

This is assuming the weather is on your side and you don't get sidelined. I'm not trying to put you off but the industry is full of people trying to get your money by preying on the naivete and dream like stance people take when taking up flying. You only have to look at the amount of people quoting £5K as the cost of the PPL - flying schools are going to make it as attractive as possible and aren't going to give you anything like the true costs.

Look at Nat's example. How on earth was his mate accepted for a cadetship without passing a Class 1 medical - it beggars belief and you only have to look at the wannabes section of PPrune to work out how many dreamers there are wanting to become pilots. I was one of them before I realised that the costs involved were disproportionate to the salaries and levels of job satisfaction. I would have to take a massive drop in salary which would take at least 12 years to make up to my present level, pay for my Type Rating and then have to sit on a Flight Deck with some IT geek for the rest of my flying days - no ta.

By all means go out and get your PPL but make sure you enjoy it and use it for the rest of your life as it is worth it and you will learn to multi task like never before but go into it with your eyes open.

Good luck.

Deep Singh

Jack, I'm not image obsessed even though my reply may have seemed that way. Its just flying around with a parachute and a lawnmower engine strapped to my back seems a little dangerous. No offence meant. Maybe you could explain a little more about it?

FCD, very useful insight. I thought it would be £5k and then about £100 a month which is not bad for a great past time. But at £10k and £500 a month its a different matter. Even more so if I make time to fly and then have to cancel due to weather.Thanks for the heads up.

Maybe I should think about a paramotor....

Deep

Nicci

Deep, just go for it.

JackClark

My pleasure.

The Parachute you refer to is in fact a development of the Paraglider designed specifically for paramotoring, the wing I fly is one of the fastest available with a top speed of around 60kph, it has trims for fast through to slow and a reflex section when on fast trim to provide stability in turbulance.

The lawnmower engine is a Paramotor specific 100cc two stroke engine producing 17bhp which coupled to my 1.10m prop gives around 50kg of thrust, it's amazingly quiet when compared to other units. This motor is attached to a frame and harness produced by Bailey Aviation, the same company that produces the motorsport dump valves and tanks.

As long as you're not in restricted airspace, have permission from the landowner and are at least 500ft from everything you can take off. This is achieved by setting up the wing then running with the engine pushing you along. Take off for my weight and setup is about 20ft in nil wind. When training this is a lot of effort, but now it's very easy.

The engine does not provide forward motion when in the air. The hand throttle makes you go up, you want to go down, turn off the engine. Left and right turns are initiated via weight shift, swing your legs left or right, sharper turns and even spiral dives are achieved by pulling the left of right brakes. 90% of the time my hands are free to do other things, like read the map or take photographs.

When landing both brakes are applied at the same time in order to slow the wing to a running/walking speed just before you touch down.

My longest flight is two and a half hours before running out of fuel, I had put 8 out of a maximum 10 litres of fuel in the tank. When you're good, and I'm not, you can utilise thermals to extend your range, people have flown huge distances in reasonable times.

At the moment, or perhaps not now, paramotors are within an exemption to the air navigation order, this has a few restrictions like not being able to fly over populated areas, this exemption may will have been lifted now, but I haven't heard anything official as yet.

The equipment new will set you back at least £4,000 and training although not needed to fly will be at least another £800.00.

The whole set up fits in the boot of my Subaru with ease.

Any questions feel free to ask.