Dragons den
30 November 2005, 12:09 PM
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Dragons den
Hi
Is it me or do these people that go in to pitch their ideas have no concept of the value of their business, I mean for instance that chap with the student accomodation place, I mean it is sooo true that anyone could do what they are doing. As to the value, they (as a collective) seem to think because they have a website, with a few visitors its worth £1,000,000. Same with that other series on Channel 4 where they all thought they were worth a million. Quite laughable really.
The other thing is, these people are living in lala land when they think they can get away with 15% for the investment. As most (sane) people know, the VC companies wont touch you for anything less than 35% really.
Its just these dreamers annoy me somewhat when they think they are special because they have a website, usually that still hasnt turned a profit.
Am I being too harsh here ?
Is it me or do these people that go in to pitch their ideas have no concept of the value of their business, I mean for instance that chap with the student accomodation place, I mean it is sooo true that anyone could do what they are doing. As to the value, they (as a collective) seem to think because they have a website, with a few visitors its worth £1,000,000. Same with that other series on Channel 4 where they all thought they were worth a million. Quite laughable really.
The other thing is, these people are living in lala land when they think they can get away with 15% for the investment. As most (sane) people know, the VC companies wont touch you for anything less than 35% really.
Its just these dreamers annoy me somewhat when they think they are special because they have a website, usually that still hasnt turned a profit.
Am I being too harsh here ?
30 November 2005, 12:23 PM
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No ,i dont think your being too harsh,but what youve got to bear in mind is that i think anyone who has the drive/contacts/ability and money can make a million at selling virtually anything.Of course there is the odd exception ,usually seen on the dragons den.
I think that a lot of them are going wrong with the basics on dragons den,remember as an investor your investing in the person aswell.Some of them seem to have trouble stringing a sentence together.Not the sort of person you want to hand over £150,000 to.
Heres a quicky:If you had £200,000 and had to make as maximum a return on it as possible in 1 year,how would you invest it?
I think that a lot of them are going wrong with the basics on dragons den,remember as an investor your investing in the person aswell.Some of them seem to have trouble stringing a sentence together.Not the sort of person you want to hand over £150,000 to.
Heres a quicky:If you had £200,000 and had to make as maximum a return on it as possible in 1 year,how would you invest it?
30 November 2005, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by pete1977
No ,i dont think your being too harsh,but what youve got to bear in mind is that i think anyone who has the drive/contacts/ability and money can make a million at selling virtually anything.Of course there is the odd exception ,usually seen on the dragons den.
I think that a lot of them are going wrong with the basics on dragons den,remember as an investor your investing in the person aswell.Some of them seem to have trouble stringing a sentence together.Not the sort of person you want to hand over £150,000 to.
Heres a quicky:If you had £200,000 and had to make as maximum a return on it as possible in 1 year,how would you invest it?
I think that a lot of them are going wrong with the basics on dragons den,remember as an investor your investing in the person aswell.Some of them seem to have trouble stringing a sentence together.Not the sort of person you want to hand over £150,000 to.
Heres a quicky:If you had £200,000 and had to make as maximum a return on it as possible in 1 year,how would you invest it?
i have a little something on the side so to speak. £200,000 would make me a lot of profit, but how much I dunno. I have a website, so it must be a mill
30 November 2005, 12:34 PM
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You should invest it in a daft woman that has four friends selling baby things for her, next year you'll have five hundred people selling them and be turning over six million 
30 November 2005, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Karl 227
You should invest it in a daft woman that has four friends selling baby things for her, next year you'll have five hundred people selling them and be turning over six million
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30 November 2005, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by sti-04!!
Cocaine
HTH
HTH
.He used to tell people he was in the "distribution" business.
30 November 2005, 01:27 PM
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I am a lover of the Dragons Den being an entrepreneur and business owner myself. What most of the people pitching ideas don't seem to grasp is that businesses tend to have a finite life unless they are prepared to radically evolve and change products/services. The dragons (VC's) all have exit strategies in mind when they are playing with figures. Only when you become too wrapped up in your product/service are you unable to see the end or when you have maxed the potential.
As for a £200k investment. Either property or speculating a little and purchasing leisure products/gadgets from the Far East.
As for a £200k investment. Either property or speculating a little and purchasing leisure products/gadgets from the Far East.
Nearly ckoked on my tea 
13 December 2005, 10:21 PM
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saw one good guy on it. He had secured exsculsive contracts for wireless internet on every marina in the country they were falling all over themselves to buy his stuff but the business was already running. And it lookd a good investment
13 December 2005, 10:34 PM
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How funny was that KMX bloke at the end..??!!!!
"So, do you owe the VAT man any money?"
<pause>
".....Probably". I nearly fell off me chair. His comic timing would've made Tommy Cooper look like a Wednesday night at Butlins. Classic moment and Peter Jones hanging his head in his hands spoke volumes.
And *still* people turn up in scruffs like they've just staggered out of a pub. How much DO they really want the investment?
Simon
"So, do you owe the VAT man any money?"
<pause>
".....Probably". I nearly fell off me chair. His comic timing would've made Tommy Cooper look like a Wednesday night at Butlins. Classic moment and Peter Jones hanging his head in his hands spoke volumes.
And *still* people turn up in scruffs like they've just staggered out of a pub. How much DO they really want the investment?
Simon
13 December 2005, 10:38 PM
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Bollywood Trivial Pursuit anyone?
I personally think that was a good idea to make money. Bet there would be a huge market for it. Obviously aimed at the Asian communities but could also sell units abroad.
Sometimes it's a pity nerves get the better of the pitchers.
Nick
I personally think that was a good idea to make money. Bet there would be a huge market for it. Obviously aimed at the Asian communities but could also sell units abroad.
Sometimes it's a pity nerves get the better of the pitchers.
Nick
14 December 2005, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by skoobidude
Bollywood Trivial Pursuit anyone?
I personally think that was a good idea to make money. Bet there would be a huge market for it. Obviously aimed at the Asian communities but could also sell units abroad.
Sometimes it's a pity nerves get the better of the pitchers.
Nick
I personally think that was a good idea to make money. Bet there would be a huge market for it. Obviously aimed at the Asian communities but could also sell units abroad.
Sometimes it's a pity nerves get the better of the pitchers.
Nick
14 December 2005, 09:10 AM
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Yes, Bollywood triv is a good idea.. but the makers of Trivial Pursuit (Horn Abbot ?) can easily make an edition, in the same way that you can buy trivia of the 80s etc..
The lad that was selling the trikes will make it without them IMO.
The lad that was selling the trikes will make it without them IMO.
14 December 2005, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidBrown
Yes, Bollywood triv is a good idea.. but the makers of Trivial Pursuit (Horn Abbot ?) can easily make an edition, in the same way that you can buy trivia of the 80s etc..
The lad that was selling the trikes will make it without them IMO.
The lad that was selling the trikes will make it without them IMO.
14 December 2005, 09:37 AM
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Yes non payment of VAT is a serious issue, the guy was too calm about it. I agree having sold 2000 of em he's bound to sell a few here in the UK. Thats the thing the dragons only really want to invest in businesses with proven sales behind them, realistic forecasts and have confidence in the persons ability.
14 December 2005, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by SD
How funny was that KMX bloke at the end..??!!!!
"So, do you owe the VAT man any money?"
<pause>
".....Probably". I nearly fell off me chair. His comic timing would've made Tommy Cooper look like a Wednesday night at Butlins. Classic moment and Peter Jones hanging his head in his hands spoke volumes.
And *still* people turn up in scruffs like they've just staggered out of a pub. How much DO they really want the investment?
Simon
"So, do you owe the VAT man any money?"
<pause>
".....Probably". I nearly fell off me chair. His comic timing would've made Tommy Cooper look like a Wednesday night at Butlins. Classic moment and Peter Jones hanging his head in his hands spoke volumes.
And *still* people turn up in scruffs like they've just staggered out of a pub. How much DO they really want the investment?
Simon
I tell you what!;
I bet the first phone call he has this morning is from his local VAT office closely followed by a visit.
What a tw@t even if he did not know exactly what he owed he should have lied!
He seem to have an eye for the products bit his presentation (or lack of it) was just ****e, delivery and content was just a joke.
I thought the dragons where hard but fair on him.
14 December 2005, 10:21 AM
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Bollywood trivial pursuit sounds like a stupid idea. As said before Triv Pursuits can make a version and instantly put you out of business. Best ones so far(in all series)
Marina internet man
Baby rocker(they as individuals were muppets though)
Automatic plant feeder
Marina internet man
Baby rocker(they as individuals were muppets though)
Automatic plant feeder
14 December 2005, 10:31 AM
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The guy was laughing nervously about the VAT, it wasn't because he found it truly funny.
He had already done lots of ground work, getting liability insurance, shifting units etc.
Not only did they disregard him because of the VAT issue, but also because they felt it was a fad.. so what ? It's a fad, it sells sh1tloads, they all make their money, and it ends.. So what ?
Like the woman that did RedLetter days that went **** up ?
The problem with the show is that if the product/company is too much in it's infancy, then they don't want to know as it's unproven, yet if the product is already flying, they want too much of a share, when the company is already turning a profit. It's easy to get in on something when a product is designed, developed, and selling.
If any of the dragons had been presented with themselves, they wouldn't have got a deal.
If any of the dragons had been presented with any of the major recent innovations they wouldn't have done a deal.
He had already done lots of ground work, getting liability insurance, shifting units etc.
Not only did they disregard him because of the VAT issue, but also because they felt it was a fad.. so what ? It's a fad, it sells sh1tloads, they all make their money, and it ends.. So what ?
Thats the thing the dragons only really want to invest in businesses with proven sales behind them
The problem with the show is that if the product/company is too much in it's infancy, then they don't want to know as it's unproven, yet if the product is already flying, they want too much of a share, when the company is already turning a profit. It's easy to get in on something when a product is designed, developed, and selling.
If any of the dragons had been presented with themselves, they wouldn't have got a deal.
If any of the dragons had been presented with any of the major recent innovations they wouldn't have done a deal.
Last edited by DavidBrown; 14 December 2005 at 10:36 AM.
14 December 2005, 10:53 AM
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[QUOTE=DavidBrown]The guy was laughing nervously about the VAT, it wasn't because he found it truly funny.
He had already done lots of ground work, getting liability insurance, shifting units etc.
Not only did they disregard him because of the VAT issue, but also because they felt it was a fad.. so what ? It's a fad, it sells sh1tloads, they all make their money, and it ends.. So what ?
QUOTE]
The bloke did not have a clue how much he owed the VAT man answered £ 30k or maybe £ 40k but not sure, well thats a lot of money not to be sure about. , he did not really know what his liabilities where - creditors, debtors, VAT, etc. He mumbled on about paying them (VAT) and cashflow problems and excuses but i would love to be in the meeting where he tells them to wait until things pick up before he pays them. Anyone with 1/2 a brain puts the VAT in a high interest account until time to pay and then pay on time.
He claimed to have sold 2000 units in Ireland, assume for arguements sake a unit sale cost of £ 150.00 + VAT per unit so £ 300.000 of sales + vat dependant on his costs he could easily have a vat bill of 30-40k (theoretically £ 52k if no supplier costs) if dependant on his supplier costs (Disclaimer - i am no accountant but have a very basic grasp of this stuff
).
He may have hot on a good idea and no doubting his ability to spot a good product but he looked like a muppet when asked basic questions about his business little wonder the two potential investors decided to keep their money.
He had already done lots of ground work, getting liability insurance, shifting units etc.
Not only did they disregard him because of the VAT issue, but also because they felt it was a fad.. so what ? It's a fad, it sells sh1tloads, they all make their money, and it ends.. So what ?
QUOTE]
The bloke did not have a clue how much he owed the VAT man answered £ 30k or maybe £ 40k but not sure, well thats a lot of money not to be sure about. , he did not really know what his liabilities where - creditors, debtors, VAT, etc. He mumbled on about paying them (VAT) and cashflow problems and excuses but i would love to be in the meeting where he tells them to wait until things pick up before he pays them. Anyone with 1/2 a brain puts the VAT in a high interest account until time to pay and then pay on time.
He claimed to have sold 2000 units in Ireland, assume for arguements sake a unit sale cost of £ 150.00 + VAT per unit so £ 300.000 of sales + vat dependant on his costs he could easily have a vat bill of 30-40k (theoretically £ 52k if no supplier costs) if dependant on his supplier costs (Disclaimer - i am no accountant but have a very basic grasp of this stuff
).He may have hot on a good idea and no doubting his ability to spot a good product but he looked like a muppet when asked basic questions about his business little wonder the two potential investors decided to keep their money.
Last edited by The Zohan; 14 December 2005 at 11:04 AM.
14 December 2005, 10:59 AM
#27
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has anyone seen those bloody KMX things on the road , they are a bloody menace , the reason i say this is because you cannot see the ****** things , they have a stupid flag on them which is supposed to warn you they are there but watching kids on the promenade where i live , how non of them got crushed by a lorry or bus i will never know , as soon as i saw the thing on the programme i thought " please , no , not more of these death traps "
14 December 2005, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by RAJ27
I know the girl who "presented this" very well. She has a good idea and it will sell. BTW she did not go to Harvard.
14 December 2005, 07:24 PM
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I think the KMX bloke justified the Dragon's decision when he was interviewed afterwards. When asked about the VAT he said "I'm an entrepreneur (sp?), I'm taking risks." I'm sure those were just risks that the Dragon's didn't want to be associated with. I was behind him up to then but playing hide and seek with the VAT man? No thanks. And yes I have been VAT registered and know exactly about what's involved...!
14 December 2005, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Flatcapdriver
She didn't say she went to Harvard, she said Stamford. Either way, a pretty disappointing presentation given her academic background but at the end of the day if they were all great pitches which attracted heaps of dosh it wouldn't make good telly.
Soz, meant Stamford. She went to Bristol AFAIK.
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