imi

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4641588.stm

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Utter and absolute bollox, spin lies, call it what you will.

The baseline is that if One MILLION people come off benifits, they ALL have to find jobs. There just aren't that many jobs available, especially since all the eastern europeans came in last year, and especially in the north.

Does ANYONE honestly believe that even thicko Labour are going to allow the unemployment rate to rise by that sort of amount? No, nor do I.

It's being talked up to appease the right wingers, and will quietly be allowed to die, you see if it's not

Alcazar

||VaNDaL||

right here goes the urine on your bonfire (or perhaps not, we'll see)

5 years ago i was earning approx £50k and the world was my oyster, i had always paid my taxes and N.I even when i could have been paid abroad and kept more. I had never been out of work, never claimed any form of benefit

one incident on a sunny day left me with a broken spine, broken pelvis and some paralysis (july 23, 2000) since then i have been unable to work due to repair work(surgery), recovery and rehabilitation/physio.

lost my house, lost all my savings - not entitled to any help until i was destitute - my help incapacity benefit.

it is payed direct into my bank (tony's idea) it is a pittance. Every time our tony has announced he is going to solve the problem of incapacity, the dwp has stopped my pittance whilst they investigate - they send to my doctors for reports and demand i fill in 2 fifty page questionaires. my doctors produce reports send copies of x-rays,scans, etc, always the same stuff.

"only following directives" and yes they know at DWP but they are told by tony that i should be working, so they go through the motions. all the time i go without food because i have no money.

on top of this because out of my pittance i have to pay a small amount of rent my account goes overdrawn before i realise no money again and my bank then heap on charges normally totaling circa £107 as i am no in an unauthorised overdraft - leading me to when i get my payment restored the bank swallows most and i have a further period of intense lack of basic necessities. this happens about 3/4 times a year.

i am now reduced as a grown man who left home 20 years ago to having to live with my elderly parents and be treated as scum by all the new labour spin believers

if tony and his friends can really cure people on incapacity perhaps he should have started the laying on of hands a long time ago


your thoughts????

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

As I said, it's spin for the New Labia right wingers. Disgusting.

Alcazar

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Dont think anybody (Tony included) has a problem with real incapacity, hardship and paying people what they are due, I just think they feel they need to (and be seen to) clamp down on those that abuse what is a vital service, like the old F*cker on the tv last week, claiming thousands for not being able to walk more than a few steps yet managed to get ladders off the roof of a Transit so he could continue his day job of building, b4stards like that spoil it for those in actual need.

There are 2.7 million on incapacity benefit (thats what I heard), I say weed out the spongers and give more to the genuine cases.

There is a misconception in this country that the government provide us with free money for all sorts of things and if you are clever you can take more than you are due, we put up with it, we turn a blind eye to people working and claiming, people fiddling tax returns, people claiming pensions for dead relatives because its only government money, well guess what, its not the governemnts money, they extracate it from our pockets and then give it back to those who 'need' it. I have no problem with the way its done, taxation is essential to provide the society we live in, I do have a problem with aging builders claiming thousands in incapacity even though they are working, whilst carers for disabled kids havent got a pot to p1ss in. People moan about the government being unfair ?

||VaNDaL||

ok so out in the real world - I hope you never actually have to cope with politicians who wind the populace up with countless spin, making you a pariah.

I also wish you permanent good health and hope you never get injured or ill, because you write with what appears to be a total lack of real knowledge about how difficult it is to actually get the benefit, let alone survive on it.

yes it costs a lot, should i be put down to save money???

and yes there are some who fiddle, but do you know people who buy dodgy ****??, people who prefer to be payed cash, people who try and avoid paying various taxes all these cost the country money.

I cant be picked on just because i'm in no condition to fight back- the biggest problem with this is the country have been successfully convinced by carefully placed speeches and news items that* all on incapacity are scroungers - what a way to treat those who most need help

* the same people who announced we had to invaid iraq to stop world terror and remove weapons of mass distruction - well that was really true

imi

Hey Vandal...

Sorry about your case....do sympathize with your situation. However I am more concerned about the people who are sponging on the system and stealing from the needy like yourselves. and they are wasting my money.

the system isnt perfect by any means, however clamping down on those parasites gets a green light from me.

fast bloke

VaNDal - My sister has been claiming incapacity for near enough 15 years now. SHe has been 'too sick to work', but has managed to have two kids and raises them while her hubby works and she still gets the incapacity. Annoys the **** off me, cos if my wife wants to stop working to raise our kids I have to earn more. From these earnings Mr Brown creams off near enough half in Tax and National Insurance contributions - which he uses to keep my sister and a million others sitting about the house.

Her situation and yours are very different, but once you know how to pull the right strings it can be a lifetime occupation.

OllyK

Expect 1 million new civil service jobs to be created over the next 10 years.

Stueyb

I think the kind of people "our tone" is after are like my girlfriends parents. To cut a long story short, her father spent from age 25 to 50 not working at all staying at home, in his council flat claiming benefits and watching tv whilst the wife went out to work cash in hand and claiming all the benefits going

Recently he got a part time job, but because of some new fangled labour thing, he gets his 16 hours a week topped up full time hours. Disgraceful me thinks, but you aint heard the best of it.

The mother still works cash in hand, but they are a huge drain on resources because he has had multiple things go wrong with him and so has she.

The best thing is that he gets a disability car due to heart attack, and now because the wife is semi disabled (bad hip) she now wants a disability car. Best thing is she cant even drive.

These are the type of people T B Liar should target as they need a swift kick up the rectum and shown the real world.

What makes it even worse is that out of all of them and their kids (only my gf has worked full time and supported herself) The rest of them, with trogs in toe think a council house is a good given sodding right ! Pisses me off when I have to pay my mortgage and on top of that council tax to support people like them.

unclebuck

Why don't you report them? If they are committing benefit fraud, it's a crime and they should be prosecuted.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

He ha, I love this "get a job" stance labia have

Did it ever occur to them that the people "choosing" not to work and leech of society on a lame excuse do it because the jobs they "could" get are a load of crap. Get a job is easy...getting a job you like and want to do and pays its way is very difficult.

I know I'd rather sit and do nothing than work in a crap job that I don't like and pays peanuts. Fact is, most jobs in this country are mind numbing desk driving or "Go-For" jobs requiring no brains or intiative...daytime TV probably gives the mind more stimulation.

ru'

Hmmm, I knew lots of people sponging, and they worked hard at it - never really understood how working hard at that was better than working hard at a real job. Makes me sick.

Oh, and the first job I had was dull, repetitive and paid peanuts. I worked hard, and now I have a better job.

Work is generally dull though. wtf? Lazy *****. This whole thing about being entitled to benefits makes me laugh - yes, some people are but lots are just playing the system.

Don't know what the answer is, maybe ship them off to some of the countries like cosovo (?) to re-dress the balance of immigrants people think are stealing all our jobs.

imi

So watching TV at home and scrounging off the rest of us stimulates your mind then....

I'd like to see that mind in formalin.

22BUK

Perhaps we should take a leaf out of Clinton's book...

"On August 22, 1996 President Clinton ended “welfare as we know it” by signing the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act (PRWORA or Act) into law. The stated purpose of the 1996 legislation was to “assist needy families, fight welfare dependency by promoting work and marriage, reduce non-marital births, and encourage the formation and maintenance of two-parent families.”

To further the objective of fighting welfare dependency, Congress limited the receipt of welfare benefits to a lifetime limit of only 60-months (five years)."

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Hello, hypothetical Not me.

But, say, if the only employment you could find was as a teleworker, or maybe 12hours shifts loading boxes, with a ratty middle manager constantly on at you about targets. Then taking home less than what you'd get on incapacity due to taxes etc.

Trisha starts to sound more inviting

imi

Why is that the only employment available.....are you a complete looser? a reject of society with no qualifications...have you done jack **** in life so hence dont qualify for a decent job??

Not saying the system is perfect....but nevertheless, clamping down on scroungers is a good thing. If the scroungers get less by doing menial jobs...then even better......bastids.

||VaNDaL||

err.... am i the only one here here who has actually read about this proposal???

yes 100% right to stamp F*cking Hard on fiddlers,Cheats,and the workshy....

but now read it again - it aint about that it is a way of villifying the injured/sick/incapacitated

As you are all proving here - no comment about the people like me who get shafted while tony takes action without checking what is real and what is fake.

OK SO I LOSE £10.21 IF I DONT ATTEND AN INTERVIEW - you tell me how much pain i have to be in, just getting there, to then get well sorry we cant take you on as our liability insurance/health and safety/ you might hurt yourself....

for 4 years even to go to the hospital to see my consultant required a lot of help(2 people to help me in and out of car or use ambulance).

As I have previously stated.. Yes I used to think on the sick was all scroungers, but by god none of you realise how bad things can get and when you are at your weekest to have a smug grinning politician and lots of the ill-informed spouting off about all should be out getting a job; then you will know the truth...

i wish no ill on anyone and i sincerly hope you never end up in a situation where you need incapacity benefit, but it makes me sad how little you care about the infirm

lucylastic

Well said

But hey - don't tar us all with the same brush

imi

Vandal...I certainly heard you loud and clear the first time.....dont think I was referring to the sick as scroungers...dont think any of us on this thread have so far...

_RIP_

Unfortunately Ali is correct. You seem to have completely missed his point though

_RIP_

Oh and recent reports state that in the 100 constituencies with the highest number of long term sick, there were 730,700 claiming IB, but only 175,161 available job vacancies. Work it out.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I never said it was a bad thing.

But you need to look at WHY they decide to go on the scrounge. Remember, a happy worker, is a good worker

They become lazy scroungers because they don't like their job and want better in life. But do not have the brains to so. If they can't get what they want - then why bother? This bunch will always be the nail in Labia's **** - as it's the welfare stae that feeds these types of no-hopers. As you and I already know that no employer in their right mind will want to employ anyone with overinflated self worth who has no care for what job they will be doing.

Then there is the other scienario of claimants that are more experienced and edcucated people especially of an older working age that worked their way up the career ladder. Something health related happens resulting in job loss or not be able to do that line of specialism in work again. And subsequent offers of alternative employment is an insult to their intelligence and potential capabilities (in their eyes).

We are already infested with half-arsed incompetent twits in almost every low level line of work (and even upper managerial these days) who already earn far too much wage than what they are worth. I'd rather get rid of tehse before the scroungers, as they cost the economy billions in lost revenue.

Myself being a Righty in politics, would happily take the I'm alright jack" attitude and scrap the whole incapacity and benfits system, and probably do away with the NHS too and tell everyone to get stuffed and sort themselves out.

BUT whilst we're being ran by Labia. I like to poke fun at why all their attempts at welfare reform never seem to work

unclebuck

I heard one of them on the radio telling of how they can't work because they are too stressed. Then they said that even the thought of having to work again was stressing them out.

These people are proffessional bullshi**ers, they have an excuse for everything. And of course they are all loyal New Labour supporters, hence nothing will actually change as Tony relys on their votes.

_RIP_

The big problem has aready been stated. Many if not most employers wont want to take the risk of the person becoming ill again. And why take the chance on someone who's only looking for a job becauase they have been coerced. And what about mental health? As the stress card is the new bad back this scares the **** out of employers. So again where will the million jobs come from?

Spoon

VaNDal, never lose sight there are far worse than yourself either. You are fortunate that you can still walk and look after yourself.

I don't think anybody on here would dispute genuine claimants receiving financial help but they also won't actually have a real clue what a genuine disability entails, unless of course they are in close contact with it.

Whatever the government do, rest assured the genuine claimants will not be affected.

It's a well overdue proposal.

imi

I think thats a bit on the extreme side...



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