The Zohan

I went to London From MK yesterday, planned to be picked up from MK on the way back so got a return ticket.

My lift from Mk called me whilst i am on the train to say there as a problem and could i get a lift back from Northampton to home (in Northampton) to cut a long story short Jenny works in MK but had to leave earlier than expected.

I travel into Northampton and when i get the ticket barriers i inform the guy collecting/checking tickets that i need to pay the extra and why.

He then referrs me to another jobsworth that informs me that i must pay a £ 20.00 fine for travelling without a ticket.

The jobsworths would not listen - i was in the wrong!

What a way to treat your customers. I was happy to pay the extra, however no conductor on the train checking tickets to ask advice or pay the extra to, Northampton ticket office was open but the jobsworth would not let me pay the extra. I refused to pay the £ 20.00 and claimed poverty as i did not have the £ 20.00 on me, just filled up the car prevoius and spent a fortune on cabs and coffees on hotels in the smoke!

I will dispute it but what a way to operate and treat people.

I will never ever use the train again unless it is a matter of life and death.

Scum jobsworths!

SJ_Skyline

It's freeloaders like you that push up the prices for us fare-paying, law-abiding people!

The Zohan

Ha!

Being insulted and my honestey brought into question by a well known fleabay fraudster - what is the world comming too.

mart360

Jobsworth w*nker

The fine for travveling without a ticket is £20 as you say, however thats for noty having a ticket full stop..

If i recall at my local station, you have a machine called a permit to travel machine (ticket), you purchase one of these, and on arrival at your destination, or if stopped by a guard/inspector, you pay the difference upto the correct fare.
and thus avoid a no ticket penalty.

if i recall the minimum price is 10p but the more you put on the permit, obviously the less you pay at the end.

I had similar when i took my nipper to brighton, i had a family railcard, but the jobsworth on the train refused to accept it and made me pay full fare for the boys. on quirying(sp) in brighton ticket office they gave it large on fare evasion etc, (i had all the correct tickets and rail cards) so when i got back to ,y local station i popped into there ticket office to clarify it... instant refund of the over charge


If, youve got your original ticket, i would go to you local ticket office and see if they can sort it.

Mart

SJ_Skyline

Paul,

I commute that line most days, Silverlink went mental around Christmas with posters all over the place saying that they were doing away with top-up fares and bringing in mandatory fines if you didn't have a ticket to cover your entire journey. To be fair, I think it is a very harsh policy.

Clarebabes

No wonder no one uses public transport outside of large cities! My friend had to wait 45 minutes this morning in the freezing cold for a bus. This is a route that is supposed to have one come every 15 minutes!

I live 4 miles from town and for me and my daughter to get a return to town it's £4.50. I might as well drive and pay parking for that.

Until the Government gets its **** out of London and realises that there is a country out here which doesn't have red buses that run after 6 o'clock - in Northampton buses rarely run after 6.15pm - and an underground system which is reliable and cheap, they may actually stop persecuting the motorist!



P.s. sorry for your fine Paul!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Have to agree with Clarebabes, it's the government's blinkered approach to public trasnsport that's to blame: they think everyone lives in London or the South East, and they think we all have public transport to match

Where I live, it's two miles to town, and costs £2.40 return on a bus, which, to be fair, does usually run every 20 minutes. However, they aren't averse to cancelling it, and it doesn't run in the evenings.

Trains are hopeless. Our line has the highest level of cancellatyions in the country

And just look at what the government have just done to Leeds: refused to fund the Leeds supertram AT ALL, while agreeing to pay £450 million for a new ticket office on the Underground in London

Apprently, there's £6.60 spent per head of population in the SE on public transport, and only £2.18 in Yorks and Humberside
It looks even worse if you take into account the actual populations!

Oh, but I forgot: there's no North-South divide, is there Mr. Bliar?

Alcazar

ODB

iTrader: (1)

Where have you got that from?

The SE commuter routes subsidise everyother train route in the whole country. If you look at revenue and expenditure the SE commuter routes have a small percentage of their revenue spelt on them despite carrying the most people. Its one of the reason they are so ****.

Back to topic, Ticker Inspectors are the biggest jobsworths going, failed the army, the police force and as Traffic Wardens. It gets my goat up when you're paying two and a half grand a year for a third world service and some jobsworth accuses you of fare dodgy and holding a fake ticket (the guy grabbed me by the throat and threatened me, so I floored him, interestingly neither the Transport police or SE Trains were interested in the actions of the ticket inspector).

vindaloo

I disagree, they're **** because of a lack of care, maintenance and growth over very many years and a complete shambles of a privatisation.

Buses are similar story. Everything is run as a business with small regard for providing services where the BS (Business statistics) state they're making a loss.

ODB

iTrader: (1)

The lack of care, maintenance and growth is a direct result of the commuter routes being used as a Cash Cow for the rest of the railways. Afterall monies are paid away to Railtrack/Network Rail/British Rail to keep the tracks in a good state but the same amount is not spent on doing exactly this. Privatisation merely added to an existing problem which had its roots back in Beeching's original idea, which predates privatisation.

The problem is not new and in fact privatisation has had a benefit as many commuter routes have seen new stock that otherwise might not have been seen for several more years. Though what is given with one hand is taken away by the higher subsidies that they now take.

SJ_Skyline

Compared to 5 years ago, my commute is far better. I get a seat most days, the trains are usually on time and the modification of the west coast main line has taken up to 5 minutes out of the journey.

I still pay through the nose for it though

I would rather sit and read on the train than the 45 miles round the M25 I occasionally have to do which takes anywhere up to 3 hours.

dsmith

When I used to commute into London, the season ticket was £3600. the company ran the typical scheme where they buy the ticket and you pay monthly. One renewel got lost in the internal post - but BR couldnt issue a replacement until after the start date of the ticket.

So that left me needing to travel for a day or so without the season ticket. I had the last 2.5 years though - i.e. proof of having spent in excess of £10K with the company.

Jobsworth conductor would not accept my "story" and accused me of theft and trying it on. I mean I sat on the same bloody seat every day ffs !

I cant think of any other situation where - having spent over 10K with a business, they would treat you like filth at the drop of a hat.

David Lock

If it's have a moan time......

My daughter had booked a ticket to come home for the weekend. Bristol to Chichester, changing at Southampton. She was shivering on the Bristol platform when she learnt that her train would be delayed and she would miss the Southampton connection which would would bugger it all up.

I managed to find someone in south Delhi and explained the situation saying the next train out of Bristol was going to Guildford and I could change my collect plans and go to Guildford instead. Would her ticket be valid for this route change?? No. Reason being that they hadn't actually cancelled the service, it was just that the train wasn't there and they didn't know when it would be turning up. Keep calm, David.........

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

'Twas on morning TV about a week ago. They had a local Leeds MP complaining about it, and a non-local minister explaining that the SE "needed" the investment, and after all Labour had doubled the spend on our region so what were we complaining about?

Both admited that the £450million spent on a tube ticket office would have PAID for the Leeds supertram, and more besides

No longer: they're all different Franchises, and the SE commuter routes attract the largest governement subsidy by far, (Source: "Rail" magazine, and "Modern Railways" magazine.

In any case, the "spend" I'm talking about is for ALL public transport, buses, trams, underground, trains etc etc.

Alcazar

Moonloops

Silverlink - ha I'm well shot of that bunch of hamtouchers cheaper to drive in to London

ODB

iTrader: (1)

The Franchises still have to pay fees to Network Rail in order to have access to the network. When you look at these fees you see that the amount spent on maintenance does not equate the amount received. Yes they receive the biggest subsidies but htey also make the largest track access payments.

I don't know where this £450 million Tube Station is though, I do know that is the amount rumoured to have been spent imporving current stations, which has all been needed.

Again I've no idea where this is from and sort of downloading the entire Tranport Department's statistics I can't prove or disprove this. But considering that the SE region effectively subsidises the rest of the UK I can't see it not being the case.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Strange, then, that the Labour transport minister, Stephen Twigg, didn't mention that when interviewed on TV about it then?

You'd have thought that if what you say is true, he'd have jumped on that for an excuse straight away

PS: still can't see where you get the idea thast the SE region subsidises the rest of the UK from. I'd have thought that it was the other way round?
Judging by the spend, that is. The one the government don't dispute?

Alcazar

ODB

iTrader: (1)

Well about 50% of the GDP comes from the South East Region (including London) and out of that only 30% is spent within the same area leaving roughly a 20% deficit then I'd say it is the case.

All figures come from the National Statistics Office (so from the government's own mouth piece).

TDT

They are absolute molluscs!

I get free travel on their services, but I would rather walk! Never been treated so badly by a rail company.

Plus those new units they use make me feel sea-sick!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Ah come on............one minute we're talking rail companies, next we're talking GDP

It's obvious why GDP is so high in the SE: most of the UK's population lives there.

But WHY is the "spend per head" so high for the south east, 3 times what it is for Yorks/Humberside...........note I said "spend per head" not just spend.

It's NOT justifiable.

Alcazar

ODB

iTrader: (1)

What???

So you're saying that spend per head should be universally the same irrespective of tax collected? (And by the way the average spend by head in London is less than £900 more than the amount for Humberside and York and Humberside is larger than the spend per head for the South Region by nearly £1000. Then factor in the tax collected and you see that you comments ring true).

You want just the Transport figures well London does well but the rest of the South East infact is has a nearly comparable expenditure per head figure than York and Humberside (but loses out on nearly everything else). Is this surprisingly not really considering that London has one fo the largest public transport networks in the world and suffers from some of the worst congestion (both roads and public transport) so is it surprising they are spending that amount on it? Then when you look at percentage of expenditure shown against income collected Humberside has a percentage of 50% (meaning that 50% of the income received is directly spent within the region) with London and the South East only has 30%. People in the SE and London have a more justifiable right to complain than anyone else within the UK and are subsidising the rest of the UK.

I'm tired of this now, the facts speak for themselves.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Spend per head: YES!
Amount spent: No, not at all.

My figures show, (and are NOT disputed by government, who USUALLY dispute owt they can that makes them look bad ), that THREE times as much per person is spent in the SE on public transport than is spent up here.

NOTE: "ON PUBLIC TRANSPORT", and "PER PERSON".

Are you suggesting that it's justifiable? You should TRY the fekkin public transport up here, it's virtually non-existant, but we're still expected to use it. And vilified by governemt and their lackeys for not so doing

Yet they find it OK to spend less than ONE THIRD of the amount they spend PER PERSON in the SE on our needs WHY?

I'm tired of this now, you obviously don't understand simple mathematics

Alcazar

ODB

iTrader: (1)

Wrong, the actual amount is twice. Have you considered the level of infastructure (roads, rail and other) that is in evidence in these areas? London and the South East are more Urban than Humberside, what about the influx of commuters? The existance of London Weightings? Just ask yourself one question, is/are roads and public transport three times better than anywhere else?

Yes because there a Public Transport utopia down here with seats for all and flexible timetables the envy of the world.

Yet they spend more on housing, trade and industry, law and order, sport and healthcare per head in Humberside than in the SE and in fact many of Humberside's amount rivals that of London's. Is that fair to the South East or London, does it solve their needs? Is it fair that they are collecting in excess of double the tax Humberside is yet only receiving £10 to £20 million more in expenditure than Humberside, despite all the extra people present?

Yet you seem to get the figures wrong and have no discernable understanding of influencing factors.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

No mate, I've quoted ONE set of figures, explained them and stuck to my guns.

You, on the other hand, have flitted from GDP to God Knows What in an effort to muddy the waters.

Clear as a bell: AS REGARDS PUBLIC TRANSPORT, WE ARE BEING RIPPED OFF

Alcazar

Foot_Tapper

Hi Paul, back on topic for a second....
I expect you have checked all the conditions of travel, but have unearthed some coz i had nowt better to do at work.
From the Nation Rail website :-
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...ngers.htm#secb
Briefly states, section 7 ( If you travel without a valid ticket ) states.
If you cannot buy an appropriate ticket for a journey you want to make because the range of tickets that is available at the station from which you want to start your journey is restricted, before you travel you must (if you can) buy a ticket or permit to travel that entitles you to make at least part of the journey. Then, if you buy appropriate additional or replacement tickets as soon as is reasonably practicable, you will be entitled to complete your journey and the first paragraph of this Condition will not apply.

BUT then see section 8 ( Penalty Fares )
Penalty Fares are operated by Train Companies at some stations and on some trains. Where this is the case warning notices will be displayed at stations. If:
you travel on a train without a ticket or permit to travel;
or
you travel in a class of accommodation where your ticket does not allow you to do so;
or
you are present in a Compulsory Ticket Area without a valid ticket or permit to travel you may be liable to pay a penalty fare and Condition 7 will not apply.

SO, if you go to here,
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/compan...keting_&_fares
still part of Nation Rail website, about Silverlink, it states in the ticketing and fares section.
Penalty Fares Note Penalty fares are not in operation on Silverlink services.

BUT if you go to the Silverlink website here :-
http://www.silverlink-trains.com/
the scoll down ( below the unbeleivable offers), it states PENALTY fares introduced from Jan 4th 2006.
If you click on the link, " Further Information" it states :-
"Passengers who feel that they have a valid reason for not having a ticket and that they should not have been issued with a Penalty Fare, can appeal to the Independent Penalty Fares Appeal Service at Portsmouth which is not affiliated to any Train Operating Company and whose decision is final"

Dont know if it helps , go for it.