The man who stole your futures to be exposed...
#1
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The man who stole your futures to be exposed...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5099428.stm
Details of Gordon Brown shocking pensions raid, where £5billion was raided by Labour in 1997, are to be released.
Will be interesting to see if Brown knew at the time that the effects would be so dire...
Labour have done so much damage its impossible to ever repair it - we'll be living with the conseqences of these things for decades
Details of Gordon Brown shocking pensions raid, where £5billion was raided by Labour in 1997, are to be released.
Will be interesting to see if Brown knew at the time that the effects would be so dire...
Labour have done so much damage its impossible to ever repair it - we'll be living with the conseqences of these things for decades
#2
Utter nonsense.
Removing the tax credit on dividends encourages firms to reinvest their profits for the longer term rather than paying them out to shareholders in the sohrt term. The extra growth thus generated over the long term is good for shareholders i.e. pension funds. Surely only an idiot would think otherwise.
Removing the tax credit on dividends encourages firms to reinvest their profits for the longer term rather than paying them out to shareholders in the sohrt term. The extra growth thus generated over the long term is good for shareholders i.e. pension funds. Surely only an idiot would think otherwise.
#3
Originally Posted by Suresh
. Surely only an idiot would think otherwise.
That man is a genius.Whatever could go wrong with his flawless plan.
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The pensions crisis is due to an aging population expecting to live for years having saved bugger all.....the current generation who belive "pensions are bad" are going to be completly screwed because they have been encouraged NOT to save up some money to live on.
the tax credit issue is tiny in relation to the issue of people not saving.
the tax credit issue is tiny in relation to the issue of people not saving.
#6
Originally Posted by The Snug Rhino
Tthe current generation who belive "pensions are bad" are going to be completly screwed because they have been encouraged NOT to save up some money to live on.
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#8
It's very clear:
- companies pay dividends. yes, the tax credits may have encouraged them to pay more, but shareholders often seek cash yields. Many companies don't have profitable ways to invest the profits they create and so return them to shareholders.
- Brown's £5bn a year raid has to date removed £40bn cumulatively from UK pensions. i.e. a recent actuarial review of the UK showed that the total pension pot today would have been £140bn rather than the actual £100bn, had the £5bn a year not been lost.
- The ageing population is nothing new - actuaries have been calculating their figures on this basis for a long time. The issue is the shortfall that was unforeseen, created by Brown.
- New Labour have been largely culpable for the mess pensions are now in. Couple with that the lies around unemployment and hosing away our money on the public sector means we are now in a pretty shaky position financially. If they were a main board, they would have been removed by now.....
- companies pay dividends. yes, the tax credits may have encouraged them to pay more, but shareholders often seek cash yields. Many companies don't have profitable ways to invest the profits they create and so return them to shareholders.
- Brown's £5bn a year raid has to date removed £40bn cumulatively from UK pensions. i.e. a recent actuarial review of the UK showed that the total pension pot today would have been £140bn rather than the actual £100bn, had the £5bn a year not been lost.
- The ageing population is nothing new - actuaries have been calculating their figures on this basis for a long time. The issue is the shortfall that was unforeseen, created by Brown.
- New Labour have been largely culpable for the mess pensions are now in. Couple with that the lies around unemployment and hosing away our money on the public sector means we are now in a pretty shaky position financially. If they were a main board, they would have been removed by now.....
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The tax credit change was made at a time when corporates and their pension schemes were fairly healthy. It wasn't helpful and I don't agree with it, but there's more to the pension problem than that. Which is demonstrated imo by the fact that national and corporate pension schemes all over Europe and the world are in trouble... what they have in common is an ageing population and lack of compuslory pension saving. Not a new problem, that, although no government is likely to tackle unless they really have to.
Any govt. could have imposed compulsory pension saving, but the idea that individuals are responsible for their own old-age financing is not a vote winner, and so they won't. And why should they? Their pensions will be quite good.
Any govt. could have imposed compulsory pension saving, but the idea that individuals are responsible for their own old-age financing is not a vote winner, and so they won't. And why should they? Their pensions will be quite good.
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Davies
Not a new problem, that, although no government is likely to tackle unless they really have to.
Any govt. could have imposed compulsory pension saving, but the idea that individuals are responsible for their own old-age financing is not a vote winner, and so they won't.
Any govt. could have imposed compulsory pension saving, but the idea that individuals are responsible for their own old-age financing is not a vote winner, and so they won't.
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Originally Posted by TopBanana
Pensions aren't the only way to provide for retirement.
no, but people arent saving at all.
#13
The simplistic way I look at it. I made provision for my future by selecting a decent pension, and paying in an appropriate amount under the terms at the time - to allow me to live comfortably after retirement.
Then Gordo changes the rules, and I have to massively increase my contribution to get the same final pension I would have before.
What gets my goat, is that all the sponging doleite scum who put away nothing for their futures didn't even notice. They expect to live on handouts and don't contribute anythign to themselves or society, so it didn't affect them at all. Wheras decent hardworking people got raped in the a$$ by New Labour, "friend of the non-contributor".
I hope GB and TB both rot in hell.
Then Gordo changes the rules, and I have to massively increase my contribution to get the same final pension I would have before.
What gets my goat, is that all the sponging doleite scum who put away nothing for their futures didn't even notice. They expect to live on handouts and don't contribute anythign to themselves or society, so it didn't affect them at all. Wheras decent hardworking people got raped in the a$$ by New Labour, "friend of the non-contributor".
I hope GB and TB both rot in hell.
#14
yep maybe the pension problem wasnt just created by gordon brown but his tax credit trick sure as hell was the biggest single reason why im after leaving this country
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Originally Posted by Petem95
Things are different in Australia - employees and employers have to contribute 10% of the employees salary into pension schemes, and as a result they have some of the richest pensioners in the world. Combine this with a very tough immigration policy, only really allowing in skilled workers, and they are looking like theyre in a very healthy position (total opposite to the UK).
I don't see what immigration has to do with underfunded corporate pensions though.
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Davies
I expect someone will explain before long.
Will be interesting to compare Australia to the UK in 20 years time....
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right then lets burn all the immigrants, force every employer large and small to pay in 10% worth of every employees annual salary every year
we'll see lots of old people in nice cars in nice clothes while they watch all the jobs they used to do that earned their pensions fly off to a far eastern country in which labour costs are one tenth of the UKs?
why pay £50 to fu<k a 19 stone english prozza who's smoking a rolly on the job when you can fly to india for £20 pay a £5er for a 8 stone indian prozza who'll polish your shoes on the way out after nailing your brains out?
thats why all the jobs are slipping away its CTE (cost to employ)
if it was your money in your business and your accountant said simply shifting ops to india would mean you make more money you wouldnt say well wait a minute what about all those pensioners who need my hard earned money to live on, they would of done it for me if they had the chance!
yeah, thats why your 70 year neighbour is drivng his brand new 3 series down to tesco.
we'll see lots of old people in nice cars in nice clothes while they watch all the jobs they used to do that earned their pensions fly off to a far eastern country in which labour costs are one tenth of the UKs?
why pay £50 to fu<k a 19 stone english prozza who's smoking a rolly on the job when you can fly to india for £20 pay a £5er for a 8 stone indian prozza who'll polish your shoes on the way out after nailing your brains out?
thats why all the jobs are slipping away its CTE (cost to employ)
if it was your money in your business and your accountant said simply shifting ops to india would mean you make more money you wouldnt say well wait a minute what about all those pensioners who need my hard earned money to live on, they would of done it for me if they had the chance!
yeah, thats why your 70 year neighbour is drivng his brand new 3 series down to tesco.
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Originally Posted by Greatnorth
thats why all the jobs are slipping away its CTE (cost to employ)
if it was your money in your business and your accountant said simply shifting ops to india would mean you make more money you wouldnt say well wait a minute what about all those pensioners who need my hard earned money to live on, they would of done it for me if they had the chance!
if it was your money in your business and your accountant said simply shifting ops to india would mean you make more money you wouldnt say well wait a minute what about all those pensioners who need my hard earned money to live on, they would of done it for me if they had the chance!
#21
Originally Posted by Petem95
I was expanding on the point of Australia being in a good state as a country, and one plus point is they have an immigration policy which favours skilled workers, unlike here where we seem to favour unskilled immigrants with criminal backgrounds, who dont want to intergrate with our culture...
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And here was me thinking that National Insurance WAS a compulsory contribution to my future pension.
People aren't saving because they're too busy paying off credit cards.
People aren't saving because they're too busy paying off credit cards.
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Originally Posted by Lum
And here was me thinking that National Insurance WAS a compulsory contribution to my future pension.
#25
Not sure why the ageing population should have an effect on private pensions being paid for by the individual personally on the premise that the pension firm would invest it wisely so that he would get the sort of pension that was promised to him at the beginning, only to find that Flash's thieving grab of their money has ruined their aspirations. Have I missed something here? The State pension is paid for by further contributions by that individual through National Insurance. Funny how government pensions just seem to get better though!
Suresh,
Did you miss the question I asked you earlier. or can't you answer it anyway?
Les
Suresh,
Did you miss the question I asked you earlier. or can't you answer it anyway?
Les
#26
Originally Posted by Leslie
Suresh,
Did you miss the question I asked you earlier. or can't you answer it anyway?
Les
You asked "what happened to people's pensions then, and why?" Can you quantify what you mean by your statement and give a credible source? i.e. not the Shadow chancellor.
Suresh
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Originally Posted by douglasb
You're half correct. NI is a compulsory contribution. It goes to fund current spending though and is not invested for the future. It will be paying pensions to pensioners who are currently receving pensions, but not a penny is going towards your future pension.
If it's not going towards my pension then why don't they just admit fact and call it Income Tax Part 2
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In effect, it is Income Tax part 2. When I look at my payslip each month and see what has been deducted, it feels exactly the same to me.
However, something that makes it a bit different from a top-up income tax is that NI is only paid on earnings. If you win the lottery, give up your job, stick the money in the bank and live off the interest, you won't be paying NI.
You're correct in that you need to have paid NI to qualify for a State pension, but that pension will be paid for by the people who are paying tax and NI when you have retired.
By paying NI you are not funding your future pension; you are paying for your entitlement to a future pension. It's a subtle difference, but think of it this way. If you pay into an employer's pension or a private pension then, broadly speaking, the more you have paid in the bigger a pension you will receive. No matter how much NI you pay it will have no effect on the amount of your State pension.
However, something that makes it a bit different from a top-up income tax is that NI is only paid on earnings. If you win the lottery, give up your job, stick the money in the bank and live off the interest, you won't be paying NI.
You're correct in that you need to have paid NI to qualify for a State pension, but that pension will be paid for by the people who are paying tax and NI when you have retired.
By paying NI you are not funding your future pension; you are paying for your entitlement to a future pension. It's a subtle difference, but think of it this way. If you pay into an employer's pension or a private pension then, broadly speaking, the more you have paid in the bigger a pension you will receive. No matter how much NI you pay it will have no effect on the amount of your State pension.
#29
[QUOTE=
why pay £50 to fu<k a 19 stone english prozza who's smoking a rolly on the job when you can fly to india for £20 pay a £5er for a 8 stone indian prozza who'll polish your shoes on the way out after nailing your brains out?
Any idea where I can book a package for the latter?
why pay £50 to fu<k a 19 stone english prozza who's smoking a rolly on the job when you can fly to india for £20 pay a £5er for a 8 stone indian prozza who'll polish your shoes on the way out after nailing your brains out?
Any idea where I can book a package for the latter?
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The Government is also entitled to 50% of any surplus from the Mine Workers Pension Scheme.
It was not believed that a labour government would cream off the Miners pension scheme but they have infact take £1.3 Billion out of the scheme.
Of course there is currently no surplus for the Government to cream off.
Cheers
Lee
It was not believed that a labour government would cream off the Miners pension scheme but they have infact take £1.3 Billion out of the scheme.
Of course there is currently no surplus for the Government to cream off.
Cheers
Lee