moses

plz no trolling, this is a question to the sensible people plz


the question is


lads, if a british born muslim see's injustice, but goes to a different country, lets say palestine or afghanistan or chechnya and fights against destruction, if he is caught, they will call him a terrorist and lock him up


but if a british born jew, whos parents and grandparents were jewish too and have nothing to do with israel only that its a jewish state so they can go their for hols, if he can join the idf an israeli army not british and commit atrocities and kill innocent lebanese or palestinians

how come thats allowed and he aint even an israel but a brit, born here

i dont understand that, why the double standards, also we have ex army fighters the british army ones who go to the african states and get paid to be mercenaries and kill people, innocent or bad

they r allowed and only difference is, they do it for money and the muslim youth see atrocities happening against the muslims and r doing it for justice and dont get paid for it, rather do it for what they stand for

plz explain, why the double standards

cheers

davegtt

Whens the first troll going to turn up then? I give it 2 minutes before your thread is hijacked....

DCI Gene Hunt

The 'first' TROLL turned up at exactly 11:06

moses

lol cheers dude they always mess up a good thread


peace

davegtt

bluenosewrx

iTrader: (2)

Moses,

how do you know that the said palestinian or lebanese person is Innocent ???

IMHO religion is pure crap and to top it all if Muslims are not happy living inour country they are free to express their opinions or even better they should leave!!!, not something that they could do in their own country.

Islam=persecution and no freedom of speach.

And before you start mate you can forget all the cut and paste nonsense you usually do.

Sorry if it offends but its my opinion and i am entitled to it as you are.

Mac

OllyK

Mercanaries are not well regarded and if you went to Afghanistan to fight for the Telban as a mercenary, you'd be treated pretty much the same as British Muslim that has gone over there to fight for them.

If Muslims want to go an fight to help their brothers, that's fine, the problems start when they end up fighting against; our own troops, countries we consider to be allies or comitting attrocities to civillians within the country they reside.

moses

mate the sad thing is how can a british jew and fight for another country and commit atrocities and get away with it, its not right mate

if not fighting their own troops which i agree they shouldnt unless they revoke their citizenship, surely they should be allowed to fight israel and the usa and russia in chechnya etc

cheers , always nice to talk to u bud

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Moses,

I agree with some elements of your argument and not others.

I feel the that Judaeic plight has been put back years by their recent behaviours. If it were any other country then I am sure we would have been first in the queue to cry out 'war crime'. Indeed The Independent newspaper had the ***** to do this some weeks ago.

However there is a complex political web in support of the state of Israel, rightly or wrongly.

There is also a powerful argument that the real war is one where the strings are being pulled by Syria and Iran who are equally guilty.

In terms of mercenaries in Africa I do not entirely agree with your argument. Many of the Angolan mercenaries were executed or jailed on various offences. The most recent 'mercenary' behaviour in Africa was fronted by Simon Mann who will probably die in jail in Malabo (a god awful prison) following extradition from Zimbabwe in exhange for oil contracts.

Mann

Whilst his backers including Thatcher got off fairly lightly, those leading the gun toting did not and indeed one of them has already died in Malabo, probably from the regime of chronic torture.

Same rules, different application, it's all politics at the end of the day.

Rannoch

OllyK

I'm not saying it is, I'm saying the USA is our ally, and the USA is an ally of Israel. Politically we are seen to support Israel.

moses

thanks alot mate for your post , nice one, its happening in iraq too bud, alot of these companies r hiring ex marines or ex british sas and other military folk and african woz the main concerne coz its happening quite alot and the warlords r paying these soldiers thousands a month to do their work


thanks alot bud, i appreciate that


and olly mate i know bud, its true what u say, just dont like the double standards of it, its ok for a british jew to not fight for britain but israel, stay their for a couple of yrs kill a few palestinians for the occuping force and then come back and lead a happy life and sell diamonds or work in your daddys firm by being a lawyer or something, if u happened to be a muslim and do the same, your screwed and locked up and in the daily mail everday

thanks bud, God bless u both

SJ_Skyline

moses,

I think the situation with western mercs in Iraq is quite different. They are being hired for close protection rather than the destabilisation and overthrow we see reported in Africa.

As to your original question, I don't know the answer but I'm sure there are elements of there being more than one set of rules.

oh - and don't bother reading the Daily Mail!

Shark Man

From what I am generally aware of. So far the British Muslims caught abroad fighting are ones that have been in coutries fighting against our own troops and allies (Afghanistan, Iraq etc). Countries we were driectly at war with.

They are traitors, not terriorists. As they are fighting military people, NOT innocent members of the public.

Can you see the difference between being a traitor and being a terrorist? As per a UK citizen killing UK public citizens - regardless of their religion or cause, whilst in a UK city.

We are not at war with Israel, but technically we are allies. Think about who our governemnt considers who is the enemy, before crying about why our government persecutes any UK citizen for fighting for them.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Skyline is right - it would be very confusing to mix 'security' hired by many multinationals and mercenaries who infamously run amok in Africa and other areas of the world.

Of course in Africa some activity is carried out under the auspices of oil or diamond mine security, some is legitamate and some is not!

If I was working in the Middle East I would be pleased to know that my security at least knew which end of the gun to hold. However their activity is passive/defensive so not really in the same category as those who have gone astray!

Rannoch

moses

sorry shark man, thats where i differ, afghanistan woz a different story mate before the invasion

see the muslim youth were already in afghanistan,what they believed to be a just war against the northern alliance, they the northern alliance and taliban were bad as each other and taliban woz good to do business as long as they gave the oil and gas contracts to unicol usa

and young lads went their to learn about islam and also fight against northern alliance, olly k and rannoch or bravo will tell u, what kind of man abdul rasheed dostum woz, an evil ******* and a part of the northern alliance, where sheikh ahmad masood woz a nice and righteous person the leader of the northern alliance

when the brits and the usa invaded a whole nation to kill one man osama and slaughter hundreds and thousands of poor people , what did u want those british boys to do, when the british and american soldiers where gonna kill them

the choice woz, be killed or kill or get arrested and get sent to gitmo for being in afghanistan yrs before the invasion

so u cant really compare, they didnt go their to fight the brits, they were already their and they saw this invasion of another nation and slaughtering afghans as an atrocity some fought back and some didnt

lets say british muslims went specially to kill british soldiers, thats treason, thats a different story

cheers

moses

lol no worries mate wont do, daily mail, just makes me sick and so does the sun and news of the world

im glad we got papers like the mirror, independent and guardian and the daily record

at least we get half decent views

cheers

dharbige

Is this theoretical "british born muslim" joing the "official" armed force of those countries, fighting in uniform in a declared war according to the rules of the Geneva Convention? Or have they just picked up an AK-47 and gone around shooting "enemy" soldiers?
If the former, fair enough. I don't think he should be treated like a terrorist.
If the latter, he IS a terrorist.

Fighting for the IDF, in uniform, is not a terrorist activity. The killing of innocent lebanese and palestinians is deplorable, regretable but not an "atrocity". Non-combatants always suffer in war zones.

If they stand for the total eradication of another people, then I don't see that this justifies their actions.

Personally, I think Israel has seriously over-reacted in the current crisis. However, there was certainly SOMETHING to react to and they are by no means totally to blame for the current situation. Neither are they totally innocent.

It seems to me that there are too many followers of the Muslim faith who support (or at least do not criticise) the actions of other so-called Muslims, just because they call themselves Muslims. To me, there is nothing "Muslim" about blowing up an airplane, shooting poeple with AK-47s, or lobbing rockets into populated areas. These people are terrorists, nothing more, and they don't deserve anybody's support.

moses

mate it woz in the bbc those lads were trigger happy, killed a few non insurgents and got away with it

kill a few brownies no one asks, so they drop them like flies

thanks for the reply bud

cheers

Shark Man

Doesn't matter if they were there or not. If they are British, and fight against them and their allies. They are traitors.

They failed to realise what having a British nationality means...allegiance to the UK and her Allies.

They are lucky they were not born 80 years ago where they would have been hung or shot for their crimes.

moses

dude i agree , the people who slaughter innocents or plan too, r terrorists, im talking about people helping others suffering from occupation and oppression

and dont u think thats betrayel when a british jew joins the army and works for a fascist occupying regime and do kill civilians and bulldoze their homes


cheers

moses

shark, what would u do , if u r about to be shot from a fellow british soldier, would u say ok kill me or would u wanna protect yourself and shoot him first

DCI Gene Hunt

He probably wouldn't get himself in that position to start with you thick ****......

Shark Man

Drop the gun, hold a white flag, and shout in a loud cockney accent.

That's if I was stupid enough to get in such a poistion anyway.

moses

lol what if the next stop woz gitmo

moses

stop sucking my ding dong like a troll and go away u parasite troll

and let this discussion be

DCI Gene Hunt

What if you actually made feckin sense................

MJW

Moses, I can see the point you're trying to make but I would reckon its nigh on impossible for a foreign national, Jewish or not, to join the IDF.

dharbige

Serveral points to consider here:
Nope, I don't see that as a betrayal.

I'm afraid I don't agree that the Israeli goverment is "fascist", "occupying", or for that matter a "regime" with the usual negative conotations.

If this is done deliberately, it is deplorable and the offenders should be court-martialled. However, I have not seen any evidence of this.

Bulldozing buildings that have already been bombed and could be unsafe is not in itself a bad thing. I do not know if this is what you are referring to. I have not seen any evidence of Israeli forces bulldozing houses just for the sake of it.

moses

mate it isnt, i swear, british jews can go and serve in the idf and train too during the summer months

one of my jewish customers son went to a idf bootcamp and he is gonna join them in a yr or 2 time, i woz pi55ed aff and said, to oppress palestinians, how could u , he couldnt say much , but i gave him a few of my words

their woz a report too in one of the papers a few months ago, british jews joining the idf

and no foreign national if he aint jewish can join the idf, u have to be jewish, ashkenazi, mizrahi or falashmura african jews

cheers

moses

sorry dude if u dont see the israeli regime as fascist and an oppressing regime and bulldozing a stone throwing kids house as an injustice thats sad

u r entitled to your views as i am with mines

so its cool

cheers