Former Russian spy murdered in UK ?
24 November 2006, 09:21 AM
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Former Russian spy murdered in UK ?
43 Year old Alexander Litvinenko, who may have been poisoned, has died in a London hospital.
He was a former KGB Officer and a fierce critic of the Putin regime.
His friend Anna Polikavskaya, was shot dead in Moscow last month.
One might have thought that the Ruski's would have changed their ways post communism - it seems not !! Keep quiet if you disagree with Putin and value your safety !!
He was a former KGB Officer and a fierce critic of the Putin regime.
His friend Anna Polikavskaya, was shot dead in Moscow last month.
One might have thought that the Ruski's would have changed their ways post communism - it seems not !! Keep quiet if you disagree with Putin and value your safety !!
24 November 2006, 09:46 AM
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Not in the least ! Can recall watching a D-Day documentary where an ex squaddie described seeing German prisoners throats cut by us Brits !
It's a rough old world !
It's a rough old world !
24 November 2006, 08:20 PM
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Certainly murdered, almost certainly murdered at the request of Putin.
A sad loss seeing as he left behind his wife and kids. Comes across as a very honorable guy in the statement he made on his dead bed.
A rare example where being granted asylum and citizenship in this country has been both appreciated and deserved.
Full statement;
A sad loss seeing as he left behind his wife and kids. Comes across as a very honorable guy in the statement he made on his dead bed.
A rare example where being granted asylum and citizenship in this country has been both appreciated and deserved.
Full statement;
I would like to thank many people. My doctors, nurses and hospital staff who are doing all they can for me; the British Police who are pursuing my case with vigor and professionalism and are watching over me and my family.
I would like to thank the British Government for taking me under their care. I am honored to be a British citizen. I would like to thank the British public for their messages of support and for the interest they have shown in my plight.
I thank my wife, Marina, who has stood by me. My love for her and our son knows no bounds.
But as I lie here I can distinctly hear the beating of wings of the angel of death. I may be able to give him the slip but I have to say my legs do not run as fast as I would like.
I think, therefore, that this may be the time to say one or two things to the person responsible for my present condition.
You may succeed in silencing me but that silence comes at a price. You have shown yourself to be as barbaric and ruthless as your most hostile critics have claimed.
You have shown yourself to have no respect for life, liberty or any civilized value. You have shown yourself to be unworthy of your office, to be unworthy of the trust of civilized men and women.
You may succeed in silencing one man but the howl of protest from around the world will reverberate, Mr. Putin, in your ears for the rest of your life.
May God forgive you for what you have done, not only to me but to beloved Russia and its people.
I would like to thank the British Government for taking me under their care. I am honored to be a British citizen. I would like to thank the British public for their messages of support and for the interest they have shown in my plight.
I thank my wife, Marina, who has stood by me. My love for her and our son knows no bounds.
But as I lie here I can distinctly hear the beating of wings of the angel of death. I may be able to give him the slip but I have to say my legs do not run as fast as I would like.
I think, therefore, that this may be the time to say one or two things to the person responsible for my present condition.
You may succeed in silencing me but that silence comes at a price. You have shown yourself to be as barbaric and ruthless as your most hostile critics have claimed.
You have shown yourself to have no respect for life, liberty or any civilized value. You have shown yourself to be unworthy of your office, to be unworthy of the trust of civilized men and women.
You may succeed in silencing one man but the howl of protest from around the world will reverberate, Mr. Putin, in your ears for the rest of your life.
May God forgive you for what you have done, not only to me but to beloved Russia and its people.
24 November 2006, 08:27 PM
#7
Originally Posted by mpr
live by the sword....
he was hardly a boy scout was he? I'm not losing any sleep over it
he was hardly a boy scout was he? I'm not losing any sleep over it
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24 November 2006, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Not really acceptable to have a foreign state sanctioned killing in the UK though is it.
24 November 2006, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Not really acceptable to have a foreign state sanctioned killing in the UK though is it.
24 November 2006, 10:58 PM
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Ok, it's been on the news again.
Now they say traces of Polonium 210, a radiation based poison, were found in his urine. And it would have to be a fairly sophisticated organisation to have this poison at it's disposal, like, say, the Russian secret service. And just by coincidence, he was considered to have "betrayed" the Russian secret service, which he was once a member of ! Motive and modus operandi !!
But how does the British Govt react if the evidence leads to the Kremlin ?
After all, we're trying to broker a deal where our gas supples come from Russia, so we can't upset them too much !
What do you reckon ?
Now they say traces of Polonium 210, a radiation based poison, were found in his urine. And it would have to be a fairly sophisticated organisation to have this poison at it's disposal, like, say, the Russian secret service. And just by coincidence, he was considered to have "betrayed" the Russian secret service, which he was once a member of ! Motive and modus operandi !!
But how does the British Govt react if the evidence leads to the Kremlin ?
After all, we're trying to broker a deal where our gas supples come from Russia, so we can't upset them too much !
What do you reckon ?
25 November 2006, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Bubba po
Anyone remember Dubya's pet name for Putin? "Pooty-poot"! FFS, this from the premier of the most powerful country in the world. 
25 November 2006, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by andythejock01wrx
After all, we're trying to broker a deal where our gas supples come from Russia, so we can't upset them too much !
What do you reckon ?
What do you reckon ?
25 November 2006, 11:21 AM
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Not only are we at their mercy commercially, but no one takes any notice of the lame duck liar either, unless he promises a large financial grant from our taxes and then they will pay lip service, for a short time.
I feel very sorry for him, it must have been a horrible lingering death for him. Saying things like "**** happens" is no answer at all. It is just a convenient way to push an evil act to one side because you can't be bothered. This kind of assassination in another country should never be tolerated.
Les
I feel very sorry for him, it must have been a horrible lingering death for him. Saying things like "**** happens" is no answer at all. It is just a convenient way to push an evil act to one side because you can't be bothered. This kind of assassination in another country should never be tolerated.
Les
25 November 2006, 11:23 AM
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It was Montgomery Burns he went to lunch with and there was no intent... Ask blinky the fish 
30 November 2006, 11:07 PM
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They're apparently finding very small trace amounts. Polonium 210 is an Alpha emitter and for scientific reasons I won't go into completely harmless when outside the body (which is better than can be said for a lot of "conventional" poisons). So it's only if you've breathed it in/eaten it/punctured the skin with it that it could present any risk at all. Polonium is sodding heavy (technical term - it's dense) so any particles won't be randomly floating around in the air, they'll have settled very quickly.
Nick - Remember that it's relatively straightforward to detect tiny amounts of radiation, such as the amount given off by a couple of grains of instant coffee (which by the way is mildly radioactive, as are an awful lot of every day substances). I don't have the facts about what was on the planes, but I'd give you odds of 100-1 that you'd have more radiation exposure from flying at 30,000ft than you would have done from being on the same place as the Polonium. Polonium 210 wouldn't naturally be found everywhere, as it has a short life (half life 138 days IIRC), and Polonium is not a common natural occuring element. However, alpha emitting substances are all over the place in trace amounts, and fundamentally an alpha particle is just a helium atom with the electrons removed. You'll be breathing in millions of Helium atoms every hour, as it's a common trace element in normal air.
Finishing the nuclear physics lecture and going on to the original subject. It clearly is wrong that someone is murdered anywhere, by anyone. That's irrespective of whether it was sanctioned by a government or an individual act (and this one is getting a lot higher priority in the media than most murders because of the alleged political links). However, unless evidence is found to clearly implicate the Russian government, the world really can't reasonably take any action against them. It's the same principal as is behind our justice system - any one (including foreign governments) have to be believed to be innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. The fact it seems pretty likely and there's a lot of circumstantial evidence and an accusation from the dying man is probably not yet proof beyond reasonable doubt.
Nick - Remember that it's relatively straightforward to detect tiny amounts of radiation, such as the amount given off by a couple of grains of instant coffee (which by the way is mildly radioactive, as are an awful lot of every day substances). I don't have the facts about what was on the planes, but I'd give you odds of 100-1 that you'd have more radiation exposure from flying at 30,000ft than you would have done from being on the same place as the Polonium. Polonium 210 wouldn't naturally be found everywhere, as it has a short life (half life 138 days IIRC), and Polonium is not a common natural occuring element. However, alpha emitting substances are all over the place in trace amounts, and fundamentally an alpha particle is just a helium atom with the electrons removed. You'll be breathing in millions of Helium atoms every hour, as it's a common trace element in normal air.
Finishing the nuclear physics lecture and going on to the original subject. It clearly is wrong that someone is murdered anywhere, by anyone. That's irrespective of whether it was sanctioned by a government or an individual act (and this one is getting a lot higher priority in the media than most murders because of the alleged political links). However, unless evidence is found to clearly implicate the Russian government, the world really can't reasonably take any action against them. It's the same principal as is behind our justice system - any one (including foreign governments) have to be believed to be innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. The fact it seems pretty likely and there's a lot of circumstantial evidence and an accusation from the dying man is probably not yet proof beyond reasonable doubt.
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