HI SOOB

Heres one for those in the know.
Female reception manager, pregnant, and about to start maternity leave next week.
Has been on the receiving end off hassle at work from another manager in another dept for many months now.
She found a pile of E mails between the person in question and another manager and also another member of staff.
In the emails there are many horrible comments about her not being fit for the job, not going to be allowed back and if she comes back she will only be allowed to clean the toilets.
Also comments about how the poor baby will have to suffer its ***#**##* mother, etc when its born.
Many more nasty comments that I dont have to hand.

There is much much more to this than I can be bothered typing, but Im trying to put across the basic outline of it all.
My question is, where do you stand with this if you take it down the legal route?
This has surely got to be some form of victimisation or bullying at the workplace hasn't it?
After she found these mails and printed them off as evidence , and sat down and read them, she has now become very distressed about it. Ending up crying over this bunch of **** holes and their comments.
With only three more days to work, I have suggested that she gets signed off in some way from the doctor as I dont feel its wise to be under this stress at such a late stage in the pregnancy.
Has anyone got any pointers with regards to how you start the ball rolling here.
I want the people brought up for this and the matter dealt with properly.
She cant approach the overall manager as hes corrupt too.
Do I take this to citizens advice?
Any help appreciated
Cheers

Brendan Hughes

Weird. Apparently she wasn't meant to see the emails? So not really bullying or victimisation. And not sure if she could get constructive dismissal, either...

Clarebabes

How did she manage to get copies?

///\oo/\\\

What's your interest?

Clarebabes

Probably just being a nice colleague... Unbelievable, but might be true?

Brendan Hughes

Bit puzzled here that a) you're trying to sanction a number of management views about a certain employee, which are legitimate topics for work emails (even if offensive), and b) a number of people seem to think the same thing about her.

I wouldn't go to Citizen's Advice, I'd go straight to JobSeekers.

If you're lucky, you could get the "hassle for many months" as a form of constructive dismissal. But these emails, if not intended for her eyes, are not easy.

HI SOOB

Shes my Wife

///\oo/\\\

And you are therefore quite correctly concerned

How did she come by the emails?

HI SOOB

The three memebers of staff in question, two are sleeping together and the other is wanting to take her job.

///\oo/\\\

TBH mate, she's better off looking for another job after her maternity leave finshes.

Regardless of who is at fault, there can be no amicable resolution in these circumstances.

If her contract requires her to work once her maternity leave is over or face financial penalty, she could use the emails as a means of agreeing a quick and hassle free departure.

HI SOOB

She had to go onto the other managers computer to do some other work which involved E mailing. thats when she came across them.

DCI Gene Hunt

It is constructive dismissal, as well as deformation of character and bullying. You will probably find that this is against your companies ethical policy for treating staff & use of computers at work as well as a host of other disciplinary considerations.

If the tale is in fact true I would arrange for all the emails to be forwarded to my home address and then request an emergency meeting with my line manager, HR rep and SHE rep (as bullying is now a hazard as she is pregnant).

Table you findings, ask for a formal statement on the contents of said letters/emails and request that the company undertakes a formal investigation.

Then sit back watch them all go grey faced......

PeteBrant

I'm not sure she could, it's very shaky ground - unless the emails were forwarded to her personally by one of those people responsible, then the only way she could have seen them is either sat at that persons computer and read through them, or someone in IT could have sent them on. Either way, you wouldn't be confident of winning any sort of case or bargain with the "evidence".

The Chief

Print the e-mails out walk in and slap them in front of the people in question whilst saying 'Eh *****, whats the meaning of this?'


watch their jaws drop

The Chief

You could say they were forwarded onto her by another concerned collegue whom you cannot possibly name.

Heard it all before

Crap advice !!! She is still working

Great Advice

Daryl

How exactly is the following legitimate?

Jesus Brendan, I'm glad I don't work for you!

HI SOOB

Thanks folks, I think I will contact C A B and see what their advice is.

Just cant see how people can get away with this. Wouldnt be so bad if there was an element of truth in the comments, but shes turned the place around since she started. She didnt want the position as she only wanted a part time job. She was boosted up by the general manager as she is good at her work.

DCI Gene Hunt

It's still great advice! you don't need to have left to sue for constructive dismissal

Daryl

The usual mix of rubbish and half decent advice...

See a solicitor asap.

Brendan Hughes

Daryl - fair comment.

Stephb1986

if she has a union at work go to them first i.e ACAS they would kick their ***** for that as it is constructive dissmissal definatly get a union in on it CAB are not really trained on this sort of thing. Hope this helps
Steph

turbomatt

iTrader: (1)

just done a short course on bullying in the workplace and those emails definately amount to harrasment or bullying cant remember which lol

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

from personal experiences, i wouldnt bother with any hr department or health & safety. if theyre anything like where i work, they will be more corrupt than the people in question...

id go make an immediate appointment at the local c.a.b. and be in touch with a.c.a.s. and also a solicitor too.

at the end of the day, its bullying / victimisation etc, whether or not she was supposed to see said emails. admittedly you cant stop someones opinion of someone else, but when you have hard evidence in the form of emails, and not just some office hear'say, thats over stepping the mark.

also if shes been getting comments from said manger, other employees, has she anyones word to support her, for instance if someone overheard the things they have said?

like i said, imho forget about all communication via hr etc, go straight to where it hurts them the most, bad press.

all in my honest opinion,

andy

Heard it all before

Please explain how

Heard it all before

This is where the employee leaves their job due to the employer's behaviour. For example, the employer has made the employee's life very difficult and the employee feels that they cannot remain in their job. When this happens the employee's resignation is treated as an actual dismissal by the employer, so the employee can claim Unfair Dismissal. The employer's actions must have amounted to a fundamental breach of contract.

Examples of Constructive Dismissal can include:

1. Not supporting managers in difficult work situations.

2. Harassing or humiliating staff, particularly in front of other less senior staff.

3. Victimising or targeting particular members of staff.

4. Changing the employee's job content or terms without consultation.

5. Making a significant change in the employee's job location at short notice.

6. Falsely accusing an employee of misconduct such as theft or of being incapable of carrying out their job.

7. Excessive demotion or disciplining of employees.

An employee can resign over one serious incident or due to the build up of a number of incidents. However, the employee must resign soon after the incident in order to be able to rely upon it. Generally the actions of the employer must be a serious breach of contract.

Constructive Dismissal & Unfair Dismissal
An employee being constructively dismissed only proves that they were dismissed, it does not automatically prove that the dismissal was unfair. The employee has to go on and prove that the dismissal was also unfair.

This can be a tricky area, an employee can resign and claim Constructive Dismissal due to the employer's behaviour, but the employer could turn around and say that he (the employer) breached the employment contract, but that it was done, for example, because of the reorganisation of the business. The chances are that the employer will be given the benefit of the doubt. The reason for this is that Employment Tribunals do not like to interfere with business management.

If on the other hand the employee resigned because he or she thought that they had been treated too harshly over a disciplinary matter, it would be easier for the Tribunal to look for and find unfairness.

If the Constructive dismissal is connected to one of the Unfair Dismissal Exceptions it will be simple to prove that it was unfair.

Heard it all before

Hence the advice

Get to a solicitor

I also read on your SIDC thread the advice to see a Doctor as this is causing both your wife and your baby stress.

THAT IS VERY GOOD ADVICE IMHO of course

DCI Gene Hunt

I am still correct.......

PeteBrant

We still dont know how she got the emails.

HI SOOB

This is how she found them.