Gamers OS of Choice...
12 November 2001, 05:01 PM
#1
PIII 600
128mb RAM
17" monitor
Geforce 2 32mb Graphics
Runs Quake 3 consistently at 85 fps
(1024 x 768 Res, 32bit textures, high detail, good shading etc)
Will need to upgarde when Quake 4 comes out tho!!
Edited to say i use 98 as OS and have no issues with it.
I have to use Linux (Red hat) at the computing lab tho, and
its pish for games
[Edited by Kosy - 12/11/2001 5:03:04 PM]
128mb RAM
17" monitor
Geforce 2 32mb Graphics
Runs Quake 3 consistently at 85 fps
(1024 x 768 Res, 32bit textures, high detail, good shading etc)
Will need to upgarde when Quake 4 comes out tho!!
Edited to say i use 98 as OS and have no issues with it.
I have to use Linux (Red hat) at the computing lab tho, and
its pish for games
[Edited by Kosy - 12/11/2001 5:03:04 PM]
12 November 2001, 08:00 PM
#2
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P3 667
256mb ddr ram
32mb ge force pro
27gig 7200 ide
19" monitor, SB live, 8*4*32 re-writer, dvd cd etc
about to be upgraded to
Palomino 1700+
60gig 7200 ide
all on 93se - waiting bit longer to change to XP maybe ?
gotta wait a bit longer til i get a geforce 3 64mb (dont see need at the moment ?)
[Edited by Steve Perriam - 12/11/2001 8:01:25 PM]
256mb ddr ram
32mb ge force pro
27gig 7200 ide
19" monitor, SB live, 8*4*32 re-writer, dvd cd etc
about to be upgraded to
Palomino 1700+
60gig 7200 ide
all on 93se - waiting bit longer to change to XP maybe ?
gotta wait a bit longer til i get a geforce 3 64mb (dont see need at the moment ?)
[Edited by Steve Perriam - 12/11/2001 8:01:25 PM]
11 December 2001, 02:12 PM
#3
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Ok - my PC (was Dual Boot Win98SE/Win2K Pro) screwed itself last night. So its a complete rebuild. What OS are people using for their Home/Game PC ?
Anyone using XP on an athlon Kt133 Via Chipset ?
Hardware is...
Athlon 1Ghz
Abit KT7A-Raid
Elsa Geforce GTS 2 (32Mb)
Soundblaster Audigy Player
256 Mb (no Brand PC 133)
45 Gb (IBM 7200 rpm disk though this may be screwed
so it will be a 40gb 540o rpm one)
Realtek 10/100 Network.
I may change the motherboard as to be honest I have no end of glitches with the KT7A Via chipset. (no matter what bios/4in1 driver/nvidia driver combination I've used).
Deano
Anyone using XP on an athlon Kt133 Via Chipset ?
Hardware is...
Athlon 1Ghz
Abit KT7A-Raid
Elsa Geforce GTS 2 (32Mb)
Soundblaster Audigy Player
256 Mb (no Brand PC 133)
45 Gb (IBM 7200 rpm disk though this may be screwed
so it will be a 40gb 540o rpm one) Realtek 10/100 Network.
I may change the motherboard as to be honest I have no end of glitches with the KT7A Via chipset. (no matter what bios/4in1 driver/nvidia driver combination I've used).
Deano
11 December 2001, 02:18 PM
#4
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Me is supposed to be pretty good
XP if you are going to get a new graphics card, its got a fair few tweaks when using like Geforce3, although as per usual wont be suported in most games for 6-12 months, and by then you will be putting it in the bin
Im still using 98SE and its very stable on my KT7 with a 1Ghz. Are you SURE you built it 100%?
Long time no meet, not going to make Scole tonight, but Im not far from BT (at home at the mo) so we could always meet up for a quick beer or something one lunch?
robski
XP if you are going to get a new graphics card, its got a fair few tweaks when using like Geforce3, although as per usual wont be suported in most games for 6-12 months, and by then you will be putting it in the bin
Im still using 98SE and its very stable on my KT7 with a 1Ghz. Are you SURE you built it 100%?
Long time no meet, not going to make Scole tonight, but Im not far from BT (at home at the mo) so we could always meet up for a quick beer or something one lunch?
robski
11 December 2001, 02:26 PM
#5
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I'm using winXP pro on a
Asus A7V mobo, KT133 chipset with a tBird 1ghz
512mb 133 sdram
hercules geforce 2 gts 64mb
ibm 30gig UDMA 100 HDD
soundblaster 1024 live
and... BT openworld DSL (problem free so far)
unfortunately, I only get 3500 on 3Dmark2001 (default benchmark) but I think that's pretty good for a 1ghz.
I had troubles with any BIOS beyond revision 1003, but it's fine with ADSL.
Playing quake3 and SoF online with no problems. Downloaded CS and HL updates last night and will apply them tonight. They haven't been happy on their original installations, but the updates should fix it.
IMHO, Windows 2000 has been the best online gaming OS I've used. I hate 9x with a passion and didn't even bother looking at Me.
Fosters
ps, there's a wealth of information on a7vtroubleshooting.com
Asus A7V mobo, KT133 chipset with a tBird 1ghz
512mb 133 sdram
hercules geforce 2 gts 64mb
ibm 30gig UDMA 100 HDD
soundblaster 1024 live
and... BT openworld DSL (problem free so far)
unfortunately, I only get 3500 on 3Dmark2001 (default benchmark) but I think that's pretty good for a 1ghz.
I had troubles with any BIOS beyond revision 1003, but it's fine with ADSL.
Playing quake3 and SoF online with no problems. Downloaded CS and HL updates last night and will apply them tonight. They haven't been happy on their original installations, but the updates should fix it.
IMHO, Windows 2000 has been the best online gaming OS I've used. I hate 9x with a passion and didn't even bother looking at Me.
Fosters
ps, there's a wealth of information on a7vtroubleshooting.com
11 December 2001, 02:30 PM
#6
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Robski
To be fair I had some problems early on (last march ish) which bios and nvidia upgrades seemed to sort out. It was never 100% stable in UT though. Had been fine for everything else for the last 4/5 months. Then I bought the audigy. I 1st noticed clicks in the headphones when you moved the mouse. Another round of bios/4in1/nvidia upgrades and the clicks had gown in crackles. Spent most of the last few days surfing every h/w style bbs I could find. It would appear I am not alone. Was trying various PCI BIOS tweaks last night when the disk must have take exception and started to corrupt large chunks. In the End I got all my data off so its just a rebuild.
Judging from everthing I've read none of the problems have been unique without actually having a definitive fix. The general performance has been great recently (especially in C/S) but I had to go and change something . I have been known to tinker (it triple booted with Mandrake for a long time..).
Lunchtime drinks sounds good maybe sometime in the new year ?
To be fair I had some problems early on (last march ish) which bios and nvidia upgrades seemed to sort out. It was never 100% stable in UT though. Had been fine for everything else for the last 4/5 months. Then I bought the audigy. I 1st noticed clicks in the headphones when you moved the mouse. Another round of bios/4in1/nvidia upgrades and the clicks had gown in crackles. Spent most of the last few days surfing every h/w style bbs I could find. It would appear I am not alone. Was trying various PCI BIOS tweaks last night when the disk must have take exception and started to corrupt large chunks. In the End I got all my data off so its just a rebuild.
Judging from everthing I've read none of the problems have been unique without actually having a definitive fix. The general performance has been great recently (especially in C/S
) but I had to go and change something . I have been known to tinker (it triple booted with Mandrake for a long time..).Lunchtime drinks sounds good maybe sometime in the new year ?
11 December 2001, 03:29 PM
#7
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PIII 850 (Not Celeron)
768mb RAM
W2K Advanced Server SP2 (NOT running AD)
ATI Radeon All in Wonder
ATA 66 10gb HD (*2)
It's a bit dated now, but ir runs fine, and is stable...
I run Rogue Spear online a lot these days (some might say too much ) and apart from the 56k problem (modem) it runs like a bomb!!!
I just need ADSL and i'll never leave the room
768mb RAM
W2K Advanced Server SP2 (NOT running AD)
ATI Radeon All in Wonder
ATA 66 10gb HD (*2)
It's a bit dated now, but ir runs fine, and is stable...
I run Rogue Spear online a lot these days (some might say too much
) and apart from the 56k problem (modem) it runs like a bomb!!!I just need ADSL and i'll never leave the room
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11 December 2001, 04:00 PM
#9
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ooooh tons mate tons!
Nah it came with my Direct access action pack so i thought i'd give it a whirl, I do in fact have one lonely client which is my whole empire! MUWAHAHAHAH....testing my COM+ components on the server - y'know all that N tier stuff.....
[DARTHVADERVOICE]
Use The Advanced Server Luke....
[/DARTHVADERVOICE]
Nah it came with my Direct access action pack so i thought i'd give it a whirl, I do in fact have one lonely client which is my whole empire! MUWAHAHAHAH....testing my COM+ components on the server - y'know all that N tier stuff.....
[DARTHVADERVOICE]
Use The Advanced Server Luke....
[/DARTHVADERVOICE]
11 December 2001, 04:10 PM
#11
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Ok, I'm gonna have to say what I run
Dual PIII - 1Ghz
1Gb Ram 2-2-2 timing
U160 SCSI drives total of around 85Gb
Zip, Jaz, CDRW, DVD, SB Live
Crap graphics from Matrox G400Max + Nvidia TNT2 (3 Monitor setup- only running 2 at mo)
Via chipset(not good but rock stable)
Loads more stuff, too much to mention
Runs on different drives(via target ids) Win2k Pro and Redhat Linux 7.2.
All I can say is this setup is Rock Solid for gaming, CS, UT, Quake etc...
IMHO and experience I now hate any Win OS using the 9x base code (95,98,98SE,ME) I'm NT Kernel all the way(except XP, it sucks)
Just MO
Dual PIII - 1Ghz
1Gb Ram 2-2-2 timing
U160 SCSI drives total of around 85Gb
Zip, Jaz, CDRW, DVD, SB Live
Crap graphics from Matrox G400Max + Nvidia TNT2 (3 Monitor setup- only running 2 at mo)
Via chipset(not good but rock stable)
Loads more stuff, too much to mention
Runs on different drives(via target ids) Win2k Pro and Redhat Linux 7.2.
All I can say is this setup is Rock Solid for gaming, CS, UT, Quake etc...
IMHO and experience I now hate any Win OS using the 9x base code (95,98,98SE,ME) I'm NT Kernel all the way(except XP, it sucks)
Just MO
11 December 2001, 04:23 PM
#12
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I haven't mentioned the PII 266 MP3 Win 98 File Server (Soon to be Win2k AS), the Dual Pentium Pro 200, 512mb Ram Mandrake 8 box (old Dell Server that was being Chucked from Work ) and my Cyrix 586 Linux ISDN Router. Its a bit noisy up there 
. All running of a serv switch in the study - I have a large bundle of video/mouse/keyboard/cat5/isdn/telephone cables coming through the ceiling - lol. Its important to "liberate" any old computer kit thats left unloved somewhere
Looks Like Win2K is getting the vote - pretty much what i was thinking.
) and my Cyrix 586 Linux ISDN Router. Its a bit noisy up there . All running of a serv switch in the study - I have a large bundle of video/mouse/keyboard/cat5/isdn/telephone cables coming through the ceiling - lol. Its important to "liberate" any old computer kit thats left unloved somewhere Looks Like Win2K is getting the vote - pretty much what i was thinking.
11 December 2001, 04:26 PM
#14
W2K Pro
850 PIII
SB Live 5.1
G450 DualHead (& 2x TFT )
512mb Cass2 133 (& on m/board)
Various SCSI HDDs & things
Also got W2K Adv Server on a simillar setup in the rack below, but not tried CS on it yet.
Going to try some of them fps & config tweaks at some point soon
850 PIII
SB Live 5.1
G450 DualHead (& 2x TFT
)512mb Cass2 133 (& on m/board)
Various SCSI HDDs & things
Also got W2K Adv Server on a simillar setup in the rack below, but not tried CS on it yet.
Going to try some of them fps & config tweaks at some point soon
11 December 2001, 04:29 PM
#15
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Bwah ha ha ha ha, all you lot have mega kit and I run a PIII 266 with 64 Mb and still hold my own nya ha ha ha ha
Erm not really
Athlon 1.3Ghz, 512Mb, Geforce II, 40Gb seagate UDMA66 , 17" Iiyama master pro and ISDN.
Windows 98 standard works fine for me
Erm not really
Athlon 1.3Ghz, 512Mb, Geforce II, 40Gb seagate UDMA66 , 17" Iiyama master pro and ISDN.
Windows 98 standard works fine for me
11 December 2001, 07:48 PM
#18
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AMD XP1800+
512MB DDR RAM
100GB 7200RPM WITH 2MB ON BOARD CACHE
RADEON 8500 64MB GRAPHICS CARD
ABIT MOBO
SCSI 12X WRITER
SCSI 24X READER
EIDE 54X READER
17" MONITOR
56K MODEM
SOUNDBLASTER 1024 5.1 PLATINUM
FIREWIRE CARD
SCSI CARD
WINDOWS 98SE
Mines runs extremely stable on Windows 98SE, but then with this spec it should do!!!!!!!!!!!
Shaun.
512MB DDR RAM
100GB 7200RPM WITH 2MB ON BOARD CACHE
RADEON 8500 64MB GRAPHICS CARD
ABIT MOBO
SCSI 12X WRITER
SCSI 24X READER
EIDE 54X READER
17" MONITOR
56K MODEM
SOUNDBLASTER 1024 5.1 PLATINUM
FIREWIRE CARD
SCSI CARD
WINDOWS 98SE
Mines runs extremely stable on Windows 98SE, but then with this spec it should do!!!!!!!!!!!
Shaun.
12 December 2001, 09:21 AM
#20
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Main machine,
Win2K Pro
Athlon XP1700 (1.4Ghz)
Gigabyte 7-DXR M/B with optional onboard Promise hardware RAID controller, and SoundBlaster A97 thingy
512MB 266 DDR RAM
ELSA Gladic 511 GeForce 2 64MB MX400 thingy
40GB ATA 100 HD (main drive NTFS)
20GB ATA 66 HD (games drive FAT32)
CDRW
CD
SB Live Platium
Cable Modem/SMC Wireless Barricade Router
100Mbit Switched UTP network & 11Mbit Wireless Network etc.etc.
IMHO, Win2K is the only MS games OS that's worth using at the moment!!!!
Matt
Win2K Pro
Athlon XP1700 (1.4Ghz)
Gigabyte 7-DXR M/B with optional onboard Promise hardware RAID controller, and SoundBlaster A97 thingy
512MB 266 DDR RAM
ELSA Gladic 511 GeForce 2 64MB MX400 thingy
40GB ATA 100 HD (main drive NTFS)
20GB ATA 66 HD (games drive FAT32)
CDRW
CD
SB Live Platium
Cable Modem/SMC Wireless Barricade Router
100Mbit Switched UTP network & 11Mbit Wireless Network etc.etc.
IMHO, Win2K is the only MS games OS that's worth using at the moment!!!!
Matt
12 December 2001, 09:25 AM
#21
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Well rebuilt last night with Win2K pro only. Used all the most recent stable drivers (which I had been using). Sound card now works a treat. It even bench marks quicker than it ever did before(6550 vs 6250 3Mark2000 default). The disk is a 5400rpm now instead of 7200 rpm. Go figure.
Chances of returning a dead disk to scan I bought 10 months ago are .......
Chances of returning a dead disk to scan I bought 10 months ago are .......
12 December 2001, 11:09 AM
#22
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Somebody give Lee a shout with his XP1900 and GF3 Ti 500. I know he's had 7800ish 3DMarks on his rig none OC'd and over 8200 when playing with the speeds.
I used to dualboot W2K Pro and 98SE. When I changed mobo's I left a partition for Win98 but many, many months later I still haven't installed 98.
Am I the only one who thinks Shaun is mad running 98SE on a machine of that spec? It's beging for 2000 IMO.
I used to dualboot W2K Pro and 98SE. When I changed mobo's I left a partition for Win98 but many, many months later I still haven't installed 98.
Am I the only one who thinks Shaun is mad running 98SE on a machine of that spec? It's beging for 2000 IMO.
12 December 2001, 12:36 PM
#24
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Well, not the best system t the moment, but here goes.
AMD 1.4ghz Thunderbird chip
Gigabyte KT something or other board
AT Rage Fury pro
40gb 7200 rpm hard drive
512mb RAM
CDRW
DVD-ROM
Soundblaster Gold
Win98 SE
logix 15" Flat Panel.
So the gfx card is not the best in the world. got my eye on Herclues Prophet III Ti 500 GeForce 3, which might up the ante a bit!
seems to run UT and B&W pretty well.
the screen is cool to.
pretty cheap to build as well (sub 650 quid)
AMD 1.4ghz Thunderbird chip
Gigabyte KT something or other board
AT Rage Fury pro
40gb 7200 rpm hard drive
512mb RAM
CDRW
DVD-ROM
Soundblaster Gold
Win98 SE
logix 15" Flat Panel.
So the gfx card is not the best in the world. got my eye on Herclues Prophet III Ti 500 GeForce 3, which might up the ante a bit!
seems to run UT and B&W pretty well.
the screen is cool to.
pretty cheap to build as well (sub 650 quid)
12 December 2001, 12:39 PM
#25
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ChrisB, Win98SE will offer better benchmark speed that Win2k - less overhead from the OS, but its marginal.
Personally I'd take Win2k over Win98SE anyday, but maybe's Sean just a speed demon. He probably has more aerodynamically efficient wingmirrors on his Scoob to give him that fraction of a second advantage too(!)
Is it me or do there not seem to be many 'original' GeForce3 cards about ? I guess the Ti200 and Ti500 are only being made now.
-DV
Personally I'd take Win2k over Win98SE anyday, but maybe's Sean just a speed demon. He probably has more aerodynamically efficient wingmirrors on his Scoob to give him that fraction of a second advantage too(!)
Is it me or do there not seem to be many 'original' GeForce3 cards about ? I guess the Ti200 and Ti500 are only being made now.
-DV
12 December 2001, 01:27 PM
#26
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If we are all just whacking out specs then here goes.....:
AMD Athlon 'Axia' 1Ghz@1.4Ghz
Abit KT7A Raid Mobo, Non ACPI config
768 MB CAS-2 7ns Crucial Ram
IBM 60 GXP 60Gb 7200 rpm Drive
IBM 20Gb 5400 rpm Drive
Acer 20x10x40 Re-Writer (CloneCD baby, yeah!)
Aopen AKU 40 Pro Cdrom
Hercules GF3 Ti 500 Graphics. (Just upgraded from a normal GF3)
Sound Blaster Audigy Soundcard
Dlink DFE 530TX LAN linked to home network, Dedicated UT server and ADSL
Samsung SM800 18.1" TFT Screen
OS of choice: After a good few reinstalls and tweakage..... XP Pro. Goes like schtink, stable 99.9% of the time (Apart from when ptholt touches it) and great for gaming IMO
Cheers,
Nick
AMD Athlon 'Axia' 1Ghz@1.4Ghz
Abit KT7A Raid Mobo, Non ACPI config
768 MB CAS-2 7ns Crucial Ram
IBM 60 GXP 60Gb 7200 rpm Drive
IBM 20Gb 5400 rpm Drive
Acer 20x10x40 Re-Writer (CloneCD baby, yeah!)
Aopen AKU 40 Pro Cdrom
Hercules GF3 Ti 500 Graphics. (Just upgraded from a normal GF3
)Sound Blaster Audigy Soundcard
Dlink DFE 530TX LAN linked to home network, Dedicated UT server and ADSL
Samsung SM800 18.1" TFT Screen
OS of choice: After a good few reinstalls and tweakage..... XP Pro. Goes like schtink, stable 99.9% of the time (Apart from when ptholt touches it
) and great for gaming IMOCheers,
Nick
12 December 2001, 01:43 PM
#27
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Okay I'll had this mine - Hasn't anyone got a cr@p P4????
AMD Athlon 1.4Ghz
Abit KT7A Raid Mobo
256MB CAS-2 Crucial Ram
IBM 40Gb 7200 rpm Drive
16x8x40 Re-Writer with Burn-proof
12x DVD Drive with hardward MPEG card.
ELSA GF3 O/C
Sound Blaster 1024
Crappy 56K hardware modem [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Ilimia Pro 17" Monitor
All wrapped up in W2KPro with a homepage link to www.gamecopyworld.com
Think thats it
rr
AMD Athlon 1.4Ghz
Abit KT7A Raid Mobo
256MB CAS-2 Crucial Ram
IBM 40Gb 7200 rpm Drive
16x8x40 Re-Writer with Burn-proof
12x DVD Drive with hardward MPEG card.
ELSA GF3 O/C
Sound Blaster 1024
Crappy 56K hardware modem [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Ilimia Pro 17" Monitor
All wrapped up in W2KPro with a homepage link to www.gamecopyworld.com
Think thats it
rr
12 December 2001, 02:04 PM
#29
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My turn!
windows 98 (not SE)
cyrix Pr200 (O/C to 233 woohoo!)
96Mb EDO 60ns
STB Nitro + Monster 3D II (8Mb)
8.4Gb Maxxtor 5400rpm UDMA33
some really ****e soundcard
18FPS in Q2 (yes, 2 not 3!)
can't watch Mpegs without massive frame dropping
Best bit?
I've had ADSL for 6 months at either 512/256 or 2Mb/512 for free!!!
I'm looking to go dual athlon after chrimbo, but I've heard that there's a new chipset coming out soon that I should wait for.
windows 98 (not SE)
cyrix Pr200 (O/C to 233 woohoo!)
96Mb EDO 60ns
STB Nitro + Monster 3D II (8Mb)
8.4Gb Maxxtor 5400rpm UDMA33
some really ****e soundcard
18FPS in Q2 (yes, 2 not 3!)
can't watch Mpegs without massive frame dropping
Best bit?
I've had ADSL for 6 months at either 512/256 or 2Mb/512 for free!!!
I'm looking to go dual athlon after chrimbo, but I've heard that there's a new chipset coming out soon that I should wait for.
12 December 2001, 04:39 PM
#30
Scooby Regular
You cheeky little gimps!!!!!!!
Daz,
I have an AMD ESCORT COSSIE not an INTEL PII 450 Subaru!!!!!! 
With the present configuration I have benched the system at 7700 with no OC'ing on 3dmark2001, to just over 8200 with just OC'ing the graphics card. I havent tried the CPU as well, but by present standards I would be able to maintain a score of over 9500 no probs, if I went this route. By the way these figures mean absolute tosh, as the framerate advantage of THESE figures is negliable. Also it has no resemblance on how quick ACTUAL games are. For instance, for certain games a Geforce Ti500 will beat my card as the drivers are still being optimizied (even though a Radeon can score better benchmark figures). But realistically when you can acheive figures of over 7000, the machine is going to be very quick.
The reason I find 98se fine, is because as of yet I have no problems with using it. All games run fast with full details at high resolution, so whereas WIN2k *maybe* better I have no need to change at the moment.
Regards.
Shaun.
PS Hadn't visited my benchmarks for sometime, but below is a link to my published scores on madonion.com .........
http://gamershq.madonion.com/product...&dprid=1974032
I acheived 7918 WITH NO OVERLCOCKING of anything!!!!! The above link shows what the program scanned as my CPU speed and FSB etc etc, so there is no cheating!!!! And those figures were on my previous Gigabyte motherboard, which my ABIT will cream...........must try it again and get some new scores.
[Edited by Shaun - 12/12/2001 4:52:54 PM]
[Edited by Shaun - 12/12/2001 4:55:17 PM]
Daz,
I have an AMD ESCORT COSSIE not an INTEL PII 450 Subaru!!!!!!
With the present configuration I have benched the system at 7700 with no OC'ing on 3dmark2001, to just over 8200 with just OC'ing the graphics card. I havent tried the CPU as well, but by present standards I would be able to maintain a score of over 9500 no probs, if I went this route. By the way these figures mean absolute tosh, as the framerate advantage of THESE figures is negliable. Also it has no resemblance on how quick ACTUAL games are. For instance, for certain games a Geforce Ti500 will beat my card as the drivers are still being optimizied (even though a Radeon can score better benchmark figures). But realistically when you can acheive figures of over 7000, the machine is going to be very quick.
The reason I find 98se fine, is because as of yet I have no problems with using it. All games run fast with full details at high resolution, so whereas WIN2k *maybe* better I have no need to change at the moment.
Regards.
Shaun.
PS Hadn't visited my benchmarks for sometime, but below is a link to my published scores on madonion.com .........
http://gamershq.madonion.com/product...&dprid=1974032
I acheived 7918 WITH NO OVERLCOCKING of anything!!!!! The above link shows what the program scanned as my CPU speed and FSB etc etc, so there is no cheating!!!!
And those figures were on my previous Gigabyte motherboard, which my ABIT will cream...........must try it again and get some new scores.[Edited by Shaun - 12/12/2001 4:52:54 PM]
[Edited by Shaun - 12/12/2001 4:55:17 PM]