Wish

iTrader: (2)

I have met some one recently that keeps telling me they are a socialist.
A dumb question maybe, but what is a socialist, and why the need to keep telling me they are?

TopBanana

Someone young and naive, or old and stupid

OllyK

define: socialist - Google Search

Holy Ghost

**

couldn't have put it better myself. can i add "... or jealous of wealth creators who work hard for justly earned rewards." badly wired brains the lot of them.

Wish

iTrader: (2)

Thank You ... That sums them up to a 'T'

PeteBrant

To play devils advocate...

"Supporters of a system where the ideal is no extremes of wealth or poverty. Rejecting entirely the notion of capitalism where 90% of a countries wealth is owned by 5% of its population. Supporters of redistribution of wealth and a re-nationalisation of core industries."

Capitalism and Socialism both have thier faults.

Leslie

I think you are very well qualified to act as Devil's Advocate!

Les

PeteBrant

Never have a debate without one


To be fair, I would never describe myself as a socialist supporter. I am far more capatilist than socialist. I just don't think some of thier ideals are necessarily barmy.

David Lock

Generally people with long hair and a scruffy appearance who don't like to use the word "Communist". Like Michael Foot.

Or people who are well dressed and fat who say all the right things over a glass of champagne. Like Roy Hattersley.

Or buffoons. Like John Prescott.

Holy Ghost

**

naturally. but true socialism, in its widespread endemic failures to improve the quality of life, personal freedoms and choices for the majority, is inherently more flawed than capitalism.

PeteBrant

Well, unless you are poor. In which case, capitalism is extremely insensitive to your plight.

Capitalism is great *if* you are doing ok for yourself. If you aren't then you are in a spot of bother.

Agreed though, there haven't been many fantastic socialist success stories. Although one could argued France is still a socialist country.. With a health care system that thw WHO rates as the best in the world, and public transport that puts us to shame.

David Lock

I wonder where Cuba stands in this debate? Yes I know they are all poor as church mice but they have a fantastic basic health system and have survived despite the world ****ting on them all for decades from a trading point of view?

j4ckos mate

alot of socialists are chamapagne soicalists.


they have socialist ideals , until it clashes with the family income or social standing


i had a cousin years ago who used to go on all the rallies,
then he'd drive home in his company car, stopping by waitrose to treat himself to some nice foreign lager etc

PeteBrant

Well Cuba has started to feel the effects of embargos of medicines etc.It used to be among the best in the world, but has slipped down the table in recent years, however, it is still on a par with western countries.
Of course the demise of the Soviet Union had devastating effects on the country, it lost is guaranteed exports, and aid. However, it has recovered to a certain extent since due to extending relationships with latin american countries, as well as Europe and China.
It also has a fantastic education system, free university for all
In terms of out and out communism, it is probably the closet we have on the planet to the ideals of Marx/Lenin. That's not to say it is some form of socialist Utopia, it is a country with real problems. Human rights attrocities ar ebeleived to be carried out on the Island.

rallying1

I think its somebody who Regularly wets the bed and wears sandals

DazW

iTrader: (1)

...In the bit that the 'capitalists' occupy?

Guantanamo Bay Naval Base - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

TelBoy

As my Grandad used to say, it's a man with nothing who goes up to a man with something and says "Let's go halves"

Holy Ghost

**

in part, you're right. but even if you're poor, or from a poor background, the capitalistic mechanism is there for you to enrich yourself. two famous examples, sir alan sugar and sir peter bonfield: both pin-sharp, self-starting barrow boys from poor white working class (as was) east end backgrounds. it's even more pronounced in the US where the opportunity for self-improvement is a national tenet - even if it doesn't always pan out that way.

anyone can do it - if they have the motivation, the nouse and the ideas - and there's the rub. such people are in the minority: which is why a just capitalistic system MUST also take care of - and encourage - the people at the opposite fringes of society who, for one reason or another, lack the skills, the education, the upbringing, the opportunity or the basic intelligence to make a decent fist of their lives.

personally, i'm not sure we're doing that as we should: the third way has failed in its intention IMO. so far anyway, although its principles are sound. give a man a fish and he eats for a day; teach a man to fish and he eats for the rest of his life. i'm a big believer in this. the statist approach encourages the former and not the latter.

france is an interesting point - though i'd call it socialistic rather than a socialist state. but while their healthcare & public transport may be top-notch, many other aspects of their economy are pretty woeful and sclerotic. as a nation, they are huge, serial underachievers and it shows. probably why they've always got a cob on about something ...

TopBanana

Saw this today and it reminded me of this thread...



click to enlarge

Wish

iTrader: (2)

Haaaa .. Excellent. Thanks for that

warrenm2

like it!

Suresh

Socialism is alive and well in the Netherlands. Sweden too, I believe. The tax level here is relatively high*, but so is social cohesion. Unemployment is historically low and GDP high. An unhealthy gap between rich and poor incomes is discouraged by government and corporate policies.

Of note: There isn't a chav problem and you don't need to have an alarm on your car, let alone a tracker! The happiest children in the western world also happen to live here. It does work


* Top tax rate is 52%

DCI Gene Hunt

TPF - "Come the glorious day, Citizen, you'll be first against the wall"