Clarkson on BBC2, WWII
18 March 2007, 09:00 PM
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Clarkson on BBC2, WWII
If you enjoyed his special on his father in laws Victoria Cross you should switch to BBC2 now, follow up war documentory entitled "The Greatest Raid of All"
Hoping its good
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18 March 2007, 09:08 PM
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Yep, St Nazaire, plucky Brit Commandos take on the *****. Something to be very proud of !!
Andy Mc
Andy Mc
Last edited by andythejock01wrx; 18 March 2007 at 09:35 PM.
18 March 2007, 09:21 PM
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18 March 2007, 09:28 PM
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Watching now
Film called The Gift Horse (1952) (based on the St. Nazaire raid)
The Gift Horse follows a ship and her crew from the time they come together in 1940 until the climactic Combined Operations raid on St Nazaire on March 28 1942. Trevor Howard plays the role of the newly appointed captain, back in service after having left the navy following a court martial.
Film called The Gift Horse (1952) (based on the St. Nazaire raid)
The Gift Horse follows a ship and her crew from the time they come together in 1940 until the climactic Combined Operations raid on St Nazaire on March 28 1942. Trevor Howard plays the role of the newly appointed captain, back in service after having left the navy following a court martial.
18 March 2007, 09:42 PM
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The bravery shown is difficult to comprehend. Two Commando officers whod been captured were on the Cambeltown when it exploded. They knew what was about to happen but they remained silent and they were killed along with 250-odd Germans and French civilians. Whether thisll be mentioned I dont know...
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18 March 2007, 10:03 PM
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Id like him to have criticised the the French more. For example: Id have suggested that the submarine pens remain as a monument to their colaboration; the cheese-eating surrender monkeys!
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18 March 2007, 10:11 PM
#14
The French surrendered, yes. So would we have done, had the Germans walked in here, after laying waste to our country 20 years previously. The French losses during WW1 don't bear thought, not even including their material losses.
The amount of collaboration was minimal, there's always going to be SOMEONE, but a lot of it was made up after the war to give credence to atrocities carried out by the resistance.
Alcazar
19 March 2007, 01:05 AM
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The story of the VC winning sergeant who was gunner on the wee wooden boat that kept firing the boat's gun against a German Destroyer despite being hit many times and being offered surrender 6 times by the Germans - it was the German Destroyer Captain that suggested the VC to the Commando prisoners ! Remarkable courage.
19 March 2007, 09:04 AM
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The French were cheerful collaborators in many places, they even had their own special French SS division.
33rd Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Charlemagne (1st French - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
Not to mention their own cheerfully collaborating, jew transporting, government in Vichy under the leadership of Marechel 'Putain'.
Vichy France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Also who could forget their refusal to turn over their fleet or order their ships to join the struggle against the Axis leaving it vulnerable to capture by the *****.
Attack on Mers-el-Kébir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There's a good reason you don't see much mention of WWII in France, it's because although many despised the ***** they also capitulated and joined in with their activities.
Don't make excuses for them and don't attempt your own re-write of history.
19 March 2007, 09:16 AM
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To that one commando who said 'I'm sure the youth of today would do exactly the same thing'
I'm afraid I can't imagine the x box generation for one minute leaving their bedrooms to go to war or even knowing much about either world war and appreciating what those men did for all of us.
We have repaid these men by producing a pretty ugly,greedy,selfish country and population
I'm afraid I can't imagine the x box generation for one minute leaving their bedrooms to go to war or even knowing much about either world war and appreciating what those men did for all of us.
We have repaid these men by producing a pretty ugly,greedy,selfish country and population
19 March 2007, 10:21 AM
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I'm very proud to say that my second cousin (Des Chappell) was one of the commandos on that raid. He won the Military Cross for his actions. He was severely injured, with shrapnel damage to his head and was left on the dockside. Ironically it was only due to the medical care that he received from the Germans that he survived (sadly he died last year).
Channel 4 also did a show about this a few years ago (called 'Commando') - there's a very good book by Sally Dugan, which you can still get on Amazon. It features interviews with Des and many of the guys in JC's programme last night.
Fabulous programme BTW - I never tire of hearing about it to be honest.
Chris
Channel 4 also did a show about this a few years ago (called 'Commando') - there's a very good book by Sally Dugan, which you can still get on Amazon. It features interviews with Des and many of the guys in JC's programme last night.
Fabulous programme BTW - I never tire of hearing about it to be honest.
Chris
19 March 2007, 11:01 AM
#27
Let's not ruin this thread as the program was excellent but this statement is factually incorrect.
The French were cheerful collaborators in many places, they even had their own special French SS division.
33rd Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Charlemagne (1st French - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
Not to mention their own cheerfully collaborating, jew transporting, government in Vichy under the leadership of Marechel 'Putain'.
Vichy France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Also who could forget their refusal to turn over their fleet or order their ships to join the struggle against the Axis leaving it vulnerable to capture by the *****.
Attack on Mers-el-Kébir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There's a good reason you don't see much mention of WWII in France, it's because although many despised the ***** they also capitulated and joined in with their activities.
Don't make excuses for them and don't attempt your own re-write of history.
The French were cheerful collaborators in many places, they even had their own special French SS division.
33rd Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Charlemagne (1st French - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
Not to mention their own cheerfully collaborating, jew transporting, government in Vichy under the leadership of Marechel 'Putain'.
Vichy France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Also who could forget their refusal to turn over their fleet or order their ships to join the struggle against the Axis leaving it vulnerable to capture by the *****.
Attack on Mers-el-Kébir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There's a good reason you don't see much mention of WWII in France, it's because although many despised the ***** they also capitulated and joined in with their activities.
Don't make excuses for them and don't attempt your own re-write of history.
They THOUGHT they were doing the right thing by surendering, (visit ANY French village, and SEE the numbers lost in WW1 on their war memorials. Often whole families wiped out.) They then found that surrender wasn't enough: the Germans expected a conquered country to help them. Tell me, what would YOU have done?
No-one is rewriting history, (except perhaps the Americans, neatly forgetting the help the French gave them in their war of independence). And I can't condone the transportation of Jews, etc. But to quote that idiot in the white house, .............no, come on, that's just too much.
Alcazar
BTW: have you READ the article about the French SS division? They were apparently Right Wing Frenchmen who chose to fight, rather than go into forced labour. They were given promises that they would NOT be used on the Western front where they might have to fight their own countrymen, and were to be used solely against the hated Communists. They were allowed to remain Catholic, had French or in one case a Swiss commandant, and had been promised that France would regain it's sovereignty if the hated Communists could be defeated.
They were NOT prison guards etc. (as were NOT most of the SS, which was, in fact Germany's crack fighting force).
Alcazar
Last edited by alcazar; 19 March 2007 at 11:09 AM.
19 March 2007, 12:15 PM
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Loved every minute of the programme, and watching the old boys being interviewed, bloody heros 
"So, there I was and this German said, Hände Hoch, so I said Hände hoch to you too"
"So, there I was and this German said, Hände Hoch, so I said Hände hoch to you too"
19 March 2007, 12:24 PM
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To that one commando who said 'I'm sure the youth of today would do exactly the same thing'
I'm afraid I can't imagine the x box generation for one minute leaving their bedrooms to go to war or even knowing much about either world war and appreciating what those men did for all of us.
We have repaid these men by producing a pretty ugly,greedy,selfish country and population
I'm afraid I can't imagine the x box generation for one minute leaving their bedrooms to go to war or even knowing much about either world war and appreciating what those men did for all of us.
We have repaid these men by producing a pretty ugly,greedy,selfish country and population
hang on a minute. the x-box generation is currently fighting and dying in afghanistan and iraq. i know what you mean - but it's a tad harsh.
top programme though. his father-in-law got the VC at arnhem - anyone clock that?
19 March 2007, 12:34 PM
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As I THINK I said, there will always be SOME. The French government can bear a LOT of the blame, yes, but then that's politicians for you, they will do almost anything to keep themselves in some semblance of power.
They THOUGHT they were doing the right thing by surendering, (visit ANY French village, and SEE the numbers lost in WW1 on their war memorials. Often whole families wiped out.) They then found that surrender wasn't enough: the Germans expected a conquered country to help them. Tell me, what would YOU have done?
No-one is rewriting history, (except perhaps the Americans, neatly forgetting the help the French gave them in their war of independence). And I can't condone the transportation of Jews, etc. But to quote that idiot in the white house, .............no, come on, that's just too much.
Alcazar
BTW: have you READ the article about the French SS division? They were apparently Right Wing Frenchmen who chose to fight, rather than go into forced labour. They were given promises that they would NOT be used on the Western front where they might have to fight their own countrymen, and were to be used solely against the hated Communists. They were allowed to remain Catholic, had French or in one case a Swiss commandant, and had been promised that France would regain it's sovereignty if the hated Communists could be defeated.
They were NOT prison guards etc. (as were NOT most of the SS, which was, in fact Germany's crack fighting force).
Alcazar
They THOUGHT they were doing the right thing by surendering, (visit ANY French village, and SEE the numbers lost in WW1 on their war memorials. Often whole families wiped out.) They then found that surrender wasn't enough: the Germans expected a conquered country to help them. Tell me, what would YOU have done?
No-one is rewriting history, (except perhaps the Americans, neatly forgetting the help the French gave them in their war of independence). And I can't condone the transportation of Jews, etc. But to quote that idiot in the white house, .............no, come on, that's just too much.
Alcazar
BTW: have you READ the article about the French SS division? They were apparently Right Wing Frenchmen who chose to fight, rather than go into forced labour. They were given promises that they would NOT be used on the Western front where they might have to fight their own countrymen, and were to be used solely against the hated Communists. They were allowed to remain Catholic, had French or in one case a Swiss commandant, and had been promised that France would regain it's sovereignty if the hated Communists could be defeated.
They were NOT prison guards etc. (as were NOT most of the SS, which was, in fact Germany's crack fighting force).
Alcazar
Unfortunatley for your argument and the French it wasn't 'just a few' but a significant number that collaborated with the *****. That's a matter of fact.
review: Burrin, Weisberg
quote
""Vichy France and the Jews." That book established virtually beyond doubt that the Vichy government, set up under the 84-year-old military hero Henri-Philippe Petain after the German victory of June 1940, went well beyond even what the Germans required of it in its persecution of Jews"
The French actually came up with their own plans above and beyond what was required of them by their conquerors. They were enthusiastic participants rather than the downtrodden masses you paint them to be.