Mick

iTrader: (1)

It cheeses me off to hear Scooby drivers slagging off 'polluting' 4x4 drivers! - we are mostly all car enthusiasts and we who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...

I was that miffed I got out my AutoExpress & got some figures...

Cars - CO2 emissions

'Green Cars' -
Toyota Prius................... - 104
Honda Civic Hybrid........... - 109
Smart 700 50bhp............. - 113
Lexus GS Hybrid.............. - 186
Lexus RX Hybrid.............. - 192

More interesting cars & 4x4s:
Land Rover Freelander TD4 - 194
Nissan X-Trail 2.2 dCi....... - 201
Audi 2.0T....................... - 209
Honda Civic Type R.......... - 215
Volvo XC90 D5................ - 219
Outback 3.0................... - 231
Honda S2000.................. - 236
Toyota Landcruiser - 3.0 D - 243
Subaru WRX.................. - 244
Mondeo 2.5.................... - 244
Mondeo 3.0.................... - 247
LR discovery3 TdV6......... - 249
Audi TT 3.2.................... - 249
Audi A3 3.2.................... - 250
Mitsubishi Shogun 3.2 Di... - 251
Saab 2.8 V6................... - 254
VW golf VR6................... - 255
Subaru STi.................... - 257
Maxda RX-8................... - 284
Legacy Spec B............... - 286
Audi RS4....................... - 324
Mitsubishi Evo IX FQ (all). - 334


So - just think about it!

Cheers

Mick

prince_of_tokyo

true say...especially with most scoobs out there with no cats...but hey...**** it

scooby276blue

fear one, the car is there to be enjoyed, don't care

myblackwrx

iTrader: (1)

The emissions is one thing but i think they are more antisocial vehicles.
Do you really need a 4x4 car in a city or to take your kids to school (yes, i know you don't need a turbocharged 4 wheel drive saloon but it is still a car like any other).

RB5_245

Where did you hear this?

Anyway you seem to have left the Big V8's off that list

///\oo/\\\

Most SUVs occupy similar road space to equivalent saloons/estates.

Take the SUV - vs - WRX question.

Same road space, same emissions, similar cost, similar fuel consumption.

What's the difference? Do you need 225 BHP, 0-60 in 6 seconds and 145mph to do the school run/shops/commute?

On the other hand, increased visibility from a high driving position is great in traffic.

I agree that the school run thing is a joke, but it applies to any cars, not just SUV's

Soon to be shogun driver and proud of it

(although mine will be no where near the city/school run, to be fair)

Abdabz

I think anyone who slags off a persons choice of car is a numpty. Everyone has a reason for choosing what they drive, be it, looks, budget, environmental reasons, number of seats, feeling of safety, size of boot etc...

The only thing people should have a go about is when people do retarded things to said vehicle, like have fog lights on when not foggy, have dodgy fonted and spaced reg plates, have w@nker lights on their water squirteees, lexus lights, silly after market spoilers, neons etc...

I expect when I spawn an army of little Abdabz, I might buy myself a hefty 4x4 to ferry them and their mates round in... Seeing as Co2 emmisions have no effect on global warming, and I'll be the one paying the fuel duty and road tax, what the fork has it got to do with anyone else anyway???

myblackwrx

iTrader: (1)

What i should have said is the antisocial behaviour orf the drivers most of the ones i've encountered (normally the newer status symbol ones x5,q7, cayenne etc) seem to have the attitude of 'i'm in a bigger,more expensive car get out of my way' (I'm not saying everyone as that would be unfair).

rossyboy

iTrader: (8)

There are 3 reasons I dislike big 4x4s:

1. Damage they do to "normal" sized cars in collisions.

2. They are too wide for narrow city streets. How many times have I had to wait for a 4x4 to come down a street when 2 "normal" sized cars could have gone at the same time.

3. Virtually every couple who have their first child suddenly think that the only answer to their transport needs is a 4x4

KiwiGTI

There is definitely an attitude problem with many of the mothers that drive the newer upmarket ones, such as the X5, Cayenne etc. Just go to an upmarket school somewhere or a high street where the cafe set are and you will see the arrogance and total lack of courtesy and driving skills.

KiwiGTI

1. So you must hate buses, trucks and vans. Stupid reason.
2. Many cars are just as wide.
3. Yes, very annoying. Especially when you think about how most of us were brought up in small hatchbacks or saloons and our parents managed.

The French seem a bit more connected to reality, the last time I was in Calais I noticed a 106 with 3 baby seats in it - something that a Brit couldn't cope with these days.

rossyboy

iTrader: (8)

1. There are a hell of a lot more 4x4s on our roads than buses and round me there are virtually no trucks. A very GOOD reason.

2. I haven't measured any cars lately, but I certainly perceive 4x4s to be wider and am therefore more likely to wait until they pass. I suspect that there are a lot of people out there that do the same, especially what seems like the millions of nervous ones.

OllyK

An average 4x4 is around 6" wider than an average saloon.

To take a couple of extreme an X5 is 1933mm wide and a Ferrari 430 is 1923mm - so maybe we should be banning Ferraris etc as well then?

myblackwrx

iTrader: (1)

like rossyboy said it's the intimidation factor of 4x4s although they can be the same width of normal cars but it's when ,sitting in your car, you only see halfway up there door and when the people (mainly women not intended as sexist) can't see over the bloody steering wheel.

Jamescsti

Question for Mick, or 4x4 owners in general, how many can claim to have a real need to drive a 4x4, given as others have pointed out they are not much bigger in terms of useful space than the average estate car. The fact is 99% of owners buy them as a status/ fashion statement. And to be fair the majority seem to gin a superiority complex as a result, and seem to think the fact they have a bigger car automatically gives them right of way on all roads.

Emmisions has nothing to do with it

OllyK

We live in Derbyshire and quite often go camping. The 4x4 has been used off road numerous times. Add to that it's improved towing ability with the trailer, for countryside dwellers it makes good sense.

BULLITT

But the majority of 4x4s aren't sold as off roaders!

Lets face it, the closest thing to off road the majority of 4x4s get is a gravel driveway.

I get the intimidation thing alot round here as theres loads of Range Rovers and Land Cruisers, if I have right of way (as in their side is blocked) I won't bow down to them, if they try to force their through I block them in. I don't let them bully me. But that said, I'm like that with anyone but it only really happens with 4x4s or taxis.

///\oo/\\\

In 2 weeks time, I'll have a "real need"

But so what if people do buy them for perceived status/symbolism?

Same can be said for most car ranges, so the argument is totally flawed.

Most people I know who own/run or want an SUV want it for two things.

1) Elevated driving position (a huge plus point)

2) Chunky looks

And what, in all fairness, is wrong with that?

I had a 3dr RAV4 for a while. I had 2 in fact. Great little cars. Elevated driving position, good looks. Sure they were not in any way serious off roaders, but they would go places (and often did) that would see normal cars scraping panels or getting stuck.

Nissan has just released a Quashqai (or whatever) - a hatchback on steroids. High driving position, chunky looks.

Expect to see more of that type of car.

///\oo/\\\

So what?

The majority of performance cars never get driven at anywhere near their potential either.

I doubt very much that the majority of 7 seater MPV's are full of passengers very often.

I doubt very much that the majority of convertibles see more than a couple of months of top down motoring.

Mick

iTrader: (1)

Sizewise the Land Rover Discovery series II is shorter and narrower than a rover75 for example! Being higher up is a major benefit if you are a courteous driver. I always try to be couteous and let people out at junctions (unless they are dangling a cigarette between their fingers - or have a mobile phone clamped to their ears ) and in the Land Rover I can slow down well before the junction to allow a space for them to come out because I have seen the situation in advance. Also on motorways - you can see tail lights backing up from much further away and decrease speed long before the guy in front suddenly relises everyone is slowing and has to jump on his anchors. So if you drive well you can act as a buffer zone for these sort of events.

As for intimidation - it's all in the mind I must admit I've done occasionally when someone has really wound me up - but then I've done the same in aa different way in the Scoob - or on a motorbike - you can't blame it on the vehicle - unless you're 90 and drive a nissan Micra - appologies to PSLewis

Many 4x4s have 7 seats - you can get your own kids and a couple of friends (or grandparents) in the car. you can get a wheelie bin standing upright in the back a Discovery with seats for 5 people still available. You can get a Range-size oven in the back with the seats folded down. You can get full size plasterboard sheets on the roof bars.

Above all they are fun to drive, getting off the kerb is an adventure, you can seek out (the few remaining ) greenlanes, off-roading sites are great for a day out with the kids - you won't believe what these things can do... - awesome

I'm glad you agree that emissionswise there is no difference between a 4x4 and any other generic car - it is specifics that count! even then as i listed the least polluting cars on the planet have CO2 emissions of over 100!!! - average cars have 175 to 200 so approx twice the amount of CO2 per mile and most 4x4s are diesel which doesn't give them much higher CO2 emissions than the average family car so 25% more than the average family car...

BUT then since CO2 doesn't drive global warming and the sun does(see 'the great global warming swindle YouTube - The Great Global Warming Swindle (Complete) ), why is it of relevance to anyone else what somebody chooses to drive or ride...

Mick

Rioja

I only dislike '4x4s' for one reason; they're difficult to see round when your trying to overtake one of these wallowing, bad handling monsters

Mick

iTrader: (1)

agreed - large vehicles do make visibility more difficult (especially with tinted windows ) - they usually have more space between them and the car in front though so you should have a space to pull in

As for wallowy & bad handling... My Disco has ACE (Active Cornering Enhancement) - quite amazing - no noticeable lean in bends at all - don't knock it till you've tried it - go to your land rover deaaler today and book a test drive - awseome machines

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

It does annoy me when people get sanctamonious about 4 by 4s based on their eco credentials, if it bothers you dont drive a car !

Dont like off roaders particularly as for most they are a bit pointless apart from the ego and intimidation thing, cant imagine why anyone (who doesnt really need one) would spend all that money on a car that is heavier, thirstier and less able than something with comparable interior space, all the ones I have driven are hideous wobbly barges, I am sure an RR sport or a Cayenne handle well but always with the 'for a 4 by 4' caveat.

As for safety, they just arent all that much safer than anything else apart from the technique of using huge size and weight to splatter anything else.

Know I am nothing special but I would feel a bit conspicuous in a massive posh off roader but not in a good way, just not me at all. Saw a bloke get out of a Hummer H2 at the local Chinese takeaway, he just looked embarassed, I did sympathise, I would rather be caught getting out of a sheep than one of those.


Embarrasment tree of off roaders


Soft Roader of any description
Anything American (With Spinners)
Anything American
Old Shogun's/Pajero's
Cayenne
X5
Land Cruiser
Merc ML(Old)
That Korean one that looks like an Own brand ML
Lexus
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Range Rover Sport
Merc ML (New)
Disco (New)

KiwiGTI

Would have placed the RR Sport and Disco (3) higher up on that list.

rossyboy

iTrader: (8)

Just remembered another anti 4x4 reason.

You approach a junction with the big 4x4 turning right across a lane of traffic in front of you. You pull up beside it wanting to turn left. Only you cant see past the damn thing's bonnet, so you have to wait until it pulls out. aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrggghh!

Yes I appreciate this happens with vans, but vans are far more useful and generally pull out of junctions quicker. Especially white ones

RB5_245

nothing embarrassing about old shoguns, good solid offroader that's nice and cheap and good in the mud.

Likewise land cruisers and discos are a bit unfairly branded given a certain minority that buy them

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Given that a car's Eco credentials in the form of C02 emmissions are largely meaningless in the grand scale of things, I don't really care how 4x4s stack up to saloon cars in this respect.

What I object to -with the proviso that a car is not repsonsible for thse who drive it- is their prevalence in the school run. I hate to stereotype, but around my way they are almost invariably driven by people who just don't seem confident using them: exhibit terrible observation and roadcraft, and even worse parking skills! Yet, paradoxically, they drive them as if they were tanks, or they had been given privilaged use of the roads!!

Ns04

Mick

iTrader: (1)

- they are excellent family cars - why on earth would you not expect to see them on the school run - or are you a youngster with a '07 WRX STi living off mummy and daddy who has no experience of looking after children and has been out of school long enough to forget what you have to do as a parent & child ?

Should all parents that find a 4x4 a useful family car be forced to buy another one to do the school run in

Unfoirtuanately the driving ability thing is probably due to the fact that most school run drivers are mums - not many of them are enthusiasts... they just use any car to get from A to B. My missus is quite a good driver (and I'm not even going to say 'for a woman' ) she has the use of the Scoob, Disco V8 or a Kawasaki ZX10... She claims she'd be just as happy with a Fiesta... - What can you do???

Anyway they are great vehicles - if you haven't driven one YOU DON'T KNOW! - so get along here Land Rover UK - Homepage and book up a test drive

Mick

Mick

iTrader: (1)

I bet they handle fantasticlly compaared to the average family saloon - I had a mercedes promotion day for the new 7 seat GL 500 0-60 in 6.5 seconds - and it's an auto! - no reving to 4000 rpm & dump the clutch - just push the throttle pedal & off you go! I bet the RR s/c and Porsche Cayenne Turbo are even better - the Porsche does 0-60 in 5.2 seconds

The Mercs handling and stopping capability is astonishing - we did some runs and slaloms and elk test type stuff - absolutely fantastic handling and brakes - don't spout off about it until you tried it

Really

No more conspicuous than a tarted up Scoob - picnic table sized spoiler & all that - each to his own I guess - "even if you're not paranoid it doesn't mean they are not out to get you"


Is this chart the most embarrasing ones at the top?

Coolest off-roaders for me are:
Porsche Cayenne Turbo
Range Rover supercharged (Brembo brakes as standard )
Disco3 V8 - 282bhp & still got 7 seats - I don't think the missus would let me have one - but it's the closest chance I've got

Mick

500

I own a Subaru and this amongst others, I don't use it for the school run, more as somthing nice to go out for a meal in etc, and nip to the shops in I don't care what other people think, I like it and that's the end of it . I've been on a run out over to the WYIOC in it and it didn't fare too badly either, but with a 5 litre V8, it should do



spot it on the run out I dissapear up the mountain about 3/3.5 mins in

http://www.scoobysmacs.co.uk/Videos/...6%20pt%201.wmv