Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

Interesting article


Battle for Iraq is lost, says soldier | Uk News | News | Telegraph

judgejules

If you start a war based on lies, there is no end.

Blair doesnt give a damn, he's one his way out, getting ready to make a load of cash from books/speeches etc.

I watched a video yesterday of Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein back in 1983 (I think I spotted Chemical Ali in there too), this was when the US was giving weapons to Iraq to fight Iran. Oh how the tied has turned, now Iran is giving weapons to Iraq to fight the West.

I'm amazed how this war has been in the making for almost 25 years now and no one has been able to see the truth behind it all.

I hold Blair personally responsible for every one of our soldiers deaths and for all those that died on 7/7/05 for it is his decision alone that placed our nation firmly in the cross hairs of a Jihad.

turboman786

UK is now suffering substantial losses, 11 this month alone, and that doesnt take into account those who have been seriously injured and who may later die in hospitals etc...

US are taking heavy losses (9 killed yesterday)........but the war just goes on...with no particular aim or focus, just the usual cheesy rhetoric about liberating iraq and giving them the joys of another western backed disctatorship which will this time call itself the democratically elected government....

The British people are good folk on the whole...why is there no outcry over this new era of tyranny??

Fuzz

Because the rest of us are just peasants to the cause !

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

As the article points put the war is heading towards Iran vs. USA/UK and sadly Iraq will just be the battleground and the Iraqi insurgents the pawns manipuated by Iran.

There are really only two options, pull out or eventually go to war against Iran and sadly with Bush in power for a couple more years the latter looks inevitable.

And that will be the single biggest mistake by a world leader since a certain German marched into Poland

It looks grim for Iraq, its people and the world in general really.

Just to put it into context so far though, we lost more troops in the Falklands than we have in Iraq. Another conflict created for political purposes I might add, but of course we all look at Maggie with rose tinted spectacles.

Leslie

Margaret Thatcher had her faults just like anyone else in this world. Nevertheless she governed for the love of this country and her decision to recover the Falklands from the Argentinians was absolutely right especially since the attack was started by them and was done for the political purposes of a discredited general. Our lands were attacked and Maggie did correctly to defend them and the people of the Falklands who were under our protection. I speak as a serving memebr of the armed services at the time.

There is a world of difference between that and this latest conflict which was a unilateral attack by the USA with Billy's support for his own purposes and instituted in this country with a load of lies based on deliberately fudged intelligence both to us and to the House. It has led to the present dreadful situation and so many thousands of deaths of civilians particularly since the end of the war with no solution in sight. Our country is now a major terrorist target.

Maggie would never have got us into such a situation, neither would she have allowed this country to sink into the present depths of social depravity, presided over the death of the family, or our present subservience to the grossly corrupt organisation known as the Eu.

Les

The Zohan

A lot of Arabs dispise up and use us as we use them. This has gone on for centuries, since the crusades.

Givining military support, training was a big mistake, although at the time we were in a cold war with the Russians and this was seeen as a way of keeping them out - was with so many countries, lesser evil at the time.

Now it has come back to hunt us!

I do think we should withdraw as we are not seen as helping but as part of the problem, once we pull out there will be civil war, many will die and the country will settle down - eventually probably with a tyrannical leader/government so little will change.Whatever we do we will be critised for, getting rid of Saddam was a good thing, being lied to by out PM was not so good, not that he cares as i seem to remember he said he will answer to God - sounds like a religiousd fanatics answer and not dissimilar to some of our terrorist 'friends'!

Our troops have done a stand up job and aquitted themselves very well.

You cannot really do more of help this country IMHO. The indigenous population ate content blowing each other up over slight differences in their beliefs - the main one being that one lot belives Allah's descendants are also Gods and the others do not. Hardly worth blowing up civillians and killing each others kids over imho!

Get out of Iraq, concentrate our forces on Afganistan.

Do not invade countries for the wrong reasons (oil) and lie about it pretending it to be for the good of peace and to fight tyrants/terrorism.

If it was because of tyrants then we would get stuck into some of Africa's problems, agian the only time we do is when oil or something we want is involved.

Interestingly, the first use of chemical weapons was by Winstion Churchill against the Kurds in the 20's

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Not quite true as there was lots of nasty things flying through the air in WW1, such as mustard gas

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Les. I completely agree with you that once our territory was invaded we had every right to seize it back via whatever means we needed to use.

My comment was more to do with the fact that Maggie's government failed to heed the warning signs regarding the Falklands of which there were many until it was too late. If I was to be unkind I might suggest that she in part deliberately avoided the issue until the use of force was necessary as she knew it would go some way towards raising her popularity for a forthcoming election at a time when another Conservative victory was a long way from a foregone conculsion. Still I am sure that wouldn't have been the case

Anyway we are now well off topic so back to the matter in hand.

MJW

I'm sure if a conflict over the second largest reserve of oil in the entire world came up, then Thatcher would have had no doubts about sending the boys to their deaths and even more so if it pleased Reagan.

moses

dear paul for a lad who is educated as u, u dont have a clue aboot sectarian history and islam, Allah doesnt have descendants, its the prophet mohammad peace be upon hims descendants, if my old thread wasnt deleted aboot the differences between shia and sunni im sure u would have learned something and others tae, i aint going typing it all up again just tae be deleted

in the last 1400 yrs theirs only been 3 or 4 major wars between shia and sunni and some lil skirmishes, not a big problem at all, once woz after the prophet pbuh;s death and one when temure the mongolian uzbek a sufi shia massacred the sunnis of india and arab states , one during the iraq and iran war and one current sectarian warfare

and a few skirmished during that time the king sheikh salahuddin ayubi a kurdish sunni united the shia and sunni tae fight the crusades and their woz peace for hundreds of yrs that time between them

aboot the difference i already wrote the history and it took me ages of my passionate time just so it can be deleted

moses

lads if their is an important book after the holy books its the books by noam chomsky

my hero if anyone has tae read a book in the next few days plz go and buy the following


Amazon.co.uk: Hegemony or Survival : America's Quest for Global Dominance: Books: Noam Chomsky


and also john pilgers new rulers of the world


but plz try tae get the noam chomsky one, it is brilliant

guys a legend and a genius

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Can't hardly understand any of the above two posts, since they are written in some sort of scottish/Asian/text speak.

Pity, as they are probably interesting

Moses, I've said this before: IF YOU WANT FOLK TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU WRITE, AND RESPOND ACCORDINGLY, THEN FOR FEK'S SAKE WRITE IN ENGLISH!

Alcazar

moses

dude i say live and let live . if someone wants tae understand and read my posts let them or if they dont , they dont need tae
so i suggest u dae the same, live and let live

The Zohan

Yup, sorry but the point is that is it worth all the killing over this point, what would Mohammed or Allah think or say about this.

moses

nae worries, they would annihilate these people who r killing each other for not justice but for power and evil and domination

i just cant get it mate, it says clearly in the quran, killing a human is like killing all of humanity if its done coz of an evil intention and oppression and persecution

and it says clearly not tae fight in the way of the disbeliever but the way of Allah, u shall not kill the working people in the field, the women, children and eldery and non combatents and only those who persecute u or oppress u

this evil war of power and division is very sick indeed

very sad actually, i dont know how bush and blair sleep well at nite, saddam woz evil and now i understand places like iraq need someone like saddam but not evil but just and harsh sometimes



u know all these militants and terrorists in the world who go back tae their own countries and suicide bomb and cause anarchy , iraq woz their training ground and they learn new things and take them back home, thanks tae bush and blair and the neocons

this is whit ayman al zawahiri woz wishing for

can u remember paul before the invasion the christian iraqi leader and foreign minister tariq aziz said iraq will be the new vietnam for the americans and oor suburbs and streets will be the swamps and jungles

the americans laughed at that, only if they listened tae him


so sad tae see mate, theirs been a christian catholic sect the chaldeans or kaldeans from pure arab stock as the other muslim arabs been in iraq fae the beginning and even after they converted tae christianity 2000 yrs ago , lived in peace under saddam and now being persecuted by these evil milita;s and even the mandeans who go back near father abrahams time and r his followers, very sad indeed

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

Couldnt agree more fella. His actions have made the UK a top target.

moses

steve i dont know if u knew mate i will find the news articles for u, did u know initially the neocons and americans planned a devicise plan for sunni and shia if they were divided it will work intae their favour, but it all backfired and their both hitting them back


they thought they can turn one sect against another and the other will benefit them and their evil plans of domination

u should read noam chomsky and seymour hercsh's articles, their the kings of literature

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

Oil aside
We must also remember.
That this war is a way of bush and his buddies to line their pockets with billions of US taxpayers money. A redistribution of wealth lets say!

1.They need a war
2.One is started
3.Many aspects which were once the preseve of the military are now placed out to private companies. Providing water, coms etc etc.
4.The tender process to acertain who is the most suitable company to receive the contracts is flimsy and a complete stich up.
5.The majority of the companies which win these contacts are Bushes and Rumsfelds buddies
6.The contacts are worth Billions. Billions are moved out of the US public purse into companies controlled by the Bush mafia
7.Redistribution of wealth complete - there is another more simple word for it!

The longer the war goes and more families torn apart - the more money the Bush mafia makes - its that simple.

All wars are corupt and about money (e.g. US business in bed with **** businesses in WW2). But you will be very hard pushed looking back through history to find a war quite as moraly corupt as the one currenly happening in Iraq.

Steve

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

Moses have read bits of Noam Chomsky but would like to read more ..have you got some links you could send me. Ta

moses

mate if u dont mind gimme yer works address i will send u one of the best books hegemony and survival and also john pilgers mate

noams wrote over 40 books and also is the man who revoulotionized liguinstics

here bud

chomsky.info : The Noam Chomsky Website


i luv this guy he is in the 80's bud i wish he woz the leader of the world and everyone thought like him

u know when a muslim loves someone and cares and respects the person all that comes oot of their mouths is , i hope the person becomes a muslim a true one who will be better than us

noam has a kind and humanist heart and mind, who serves humanity as a whole, as u may know he is fae a jewish background he gets a hard time fae american zionist jews but overall in the world most people luv him, he is a modern day hero mate


cheers bud

moses

steve mate check this vid aboot iraq by chomsky


Iraq War - Google Video



and one aboot the usa being terrified

YouTube - "The United States is Terrified" - Noam Chomsky


and bolivia tae baghdad a few parts


YouTube - Noam Chomsky: From Bolivia to Baghdad - (1/4)

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Moses: WHIT'S THE FEKKIN PINT O' WRITIN IN SOM SORTAE SCOTCH ACCENT, WE FEKKIN NO UR SCOTCH, ASIAN AND TALK IN TEXT NOO, STAP RAMMIN IT DOON OOR THRAITS, YE TW@

ALCAZAR

Leslie

Yes I agree that the problem was avoided until the Argentinians attacked and that was bad in my opinion also. Whether that was deliberate or not, I can't say or deny it either. We should have shown our intentions to defend them much earlier. It should be remembered that it was by no means an easy fight and we were close to losing it at times. We had the military disadvantage of being a long way from the scene of action. The Argentinians were by no means an inferior force and fought bravely, especially the Air Force. Maggie still had the guts to go ahead under those conditions. It is true that she got a great deal of popularity after the Islands were reclaimed. Once again it is hard to say for certain whether that was a lucky accident or was planned.

A great deal different to telling the JIC to produce a report supporting the likelyhood of WMD in Iraq when they had already said that their intelligence was sketchy and unreliable.

Les

Leslie

You are right of course about the reserves of oil in Iraq and the importantance of that economically speaking.

Looking at what we know for sure about the true characters of those involved in the whole business, I think you are being most unfair in comparing Maggie with the other bunch of lying toads!

Les

Iain Young

Of course the only reason that there is a British presence on the islands is because we took them by force in 1833 following the destruction of the Argentine settlement at Puerto Soledad by the Americans. Can't really blame the Argentines for wanting them back.

The real crime here is that innocent people (not just the army) have to get killed for their politics. For every UK/US soldier that gets killed, how many innocent civilan Iraqis are getting killed?

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

I thought the war ended 3 years ago? Well that's what Bush said

Leslie

I saw it reported that the number of civilian deaths in Iraq since the end of the war is about 670 thousands. It is a shameful crime alright and also that the soldiers are being killed also for the sake of an illegal war.

Les

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

Rumsfeld was shaking hands with an allie at the time. They were in the process of losing hundreds of thousands of soldiers fighting Iran, who had just overthrown the Shar, and losing hundreds of thousands of soldiers too.

Now when the US/UK leave Iran will just walk in.......job done.

Oil prices sky high, Isreal under threat and who knows what next??????

Iain Young

The thing I find disgraceful is that the UK and US politicians (and public) are saying that we have to pull out now, without any regard to how that will leave the innocent cilivilians in the country.

For whatever reason it was strarted, legal or illegal (although I fail to see how a war can ever be legal), the fact is that we are ultimately resonsible for the mess over there. To pull out now would be completely irresponsible, and without the protection offered by the UK and US troops, how many more innocent people are going to be killed, and how many of them will turn into "terrorists" or become sympathetic to the terrorist cause after being abandoned to their fate.

It's one hell of a mess