Diesel

Just watched that BBC1 prog on CCTV policing - over 4 million cameras watching us in the UK by now. Its a world record in cameras per head of population YET NEVER EVER have I felt less safe...

We all know policing our roads is now done via the Post Office and referenced via spun statistical nonsense [speed cams taking the credit for ABS, SRS. DSP, DSC, better road coatings, redesigned junctions etc etc if there are 2 less injuries in a year]. They do us all SUCH a disservice, but the politicos and pensioned at 55 try to spin such a deceitful web.

The programme also made me really sad – policing just seems to be another market commodity to be sold, over-exaggerated, bigged-up, simplified and made the most easy, repercussive [rather than pro-active] process for those doing it.

The way I grew up we had respect for those that policed us – they were to be respected and were ALWAYS better than current liars, PR spinners and wage slaves. Gladly I haven’t lost track of that, but I despair for the future. So...

How can I possibly teach MY kids the respectfull values my parents instilled in me when I am SO CYNICAL and despair of the absolute BS that is going on??? I think that may be a HEFTY question [and bigger than Scoobynet – no slight intended]..

A rather glum D

SlimJ_2005

The program was pretty one sided, it was all about the 'good' the cameras are doing to protect the general public. Shouldv'e been an argument from the other side saying that if there were more police on the streets there wouldn't be the crime in the first place!

The speaking cameras was interesting, but sounds too much like Orwell's 1984, he was dead right!

CCTV doesnt make me feel anymore safe, I feel watched all the time and feel if I do the slightest thing wrong I'll be punished even though I'm a law abiding citizen...

Lee247

It's a bit galling that we are being watched so much, yet there seems to be no reduction in crime. Makes me wonder exactly what it is they are watching

MattW

Don't pick your nose in case they sell the footage for prime time telly!

Lee247

Scratching one's bum might end up on Sky News

Bubba po

"Gas leak; finger pointed at local ring".

OllyK

It seems to me that Policing has moved from being pro-active and about prevention to being about not worrying about crime until it happens and then hoping it's on CCTV.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

If you would stop dithering about and get off the fence and say what you really mean then that might help

I am not sure how the installation of cctv cameras prevents you bringing your kids up in the way that you want to

PeteBrant

CCTV does not work as a deterrent. So you have to question the usage. It is a cheap alternative to policing. The main usage of them is to present evidence.

I would say time and money would be better invested on preventing the crime in the first place, which CCTV clearly fails to do completely.

Diesel

Sorry I'll revise that post and say what I really mean [although I do feel better today]

Anyway, how can I teach my kids to respect the local Bobby when he has been replaced by a white box with a broadband connection to the post office?

D

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Well I'm old and was taught respect for the police and yet have not recollection of seeing a policeman on the street and even seeing a police was a very rare occurrence. I have seen far more police as an adult than I did as a child.

Jerome

Apart from the invasion of privacy issues, it never ceases to amaze me how poor the quality of the video is. Someone robs a shop/bank/petrol station and the footage released to identify the robber is so grainy it could be anyone.

In every other area of technology, things improve dramatically over time, except CCTV.

Even if the operator spots someone commiting a crime, by the time they've located the nearest police officer who isn't up to his neck in "ooh, don't infringe a crim's rights" paperwork, the crime has been commited and the criminal is safely back at home.

Don't worry though, ID cards will sort everything out...

Prince Popeye

Since when do you see a local bobby? Even as a child we had none. Unless you live in Mr Blair's constituency where crime doesn't exist.

I think Diesel your trying too hard with all your meaningful yet 'wtf is he going on about' terms. As Roy Walker says 'say what you see!'

Leslie

I think this is a very revealing post and I know just how you feel Diesel. I can remember when there was always a copper to be seen somewhere around, they used to have designated patrol points about the place. We did respect them too, they were all very fair minded but were perfectly capable of dealing with any backchat if anyone was stupid enough to try it on.

One sees so few coppers around now, and at 5 o clock the local police stations all close down and we have to rely on contacting a call centre of sorts which may if you are lucky divert the two coppers in a panda who are patrolling a huge area and could be 40 miles away. Very occasionally I might see a CSO imitating a copper but who is virtually powerless as far as maintaining law and order is concerned.

We see the coppers controlled by an increasingly PC bunch of senior officers now who seem to be more interested in producing the right answers to their political masters in order to further their own careers, but who do not concentrate on getting the job done correctly. It is shameful that the the coppers spend a very large part of their day on useless paperwork for the Whitehall mandarins instead of being out there doing what they are supposed to be employed for.

The thought they they are now beginning to rely on CCTV cameras to keep the peace with loudspeakers attached in a useless effort to deter bad behaviour is truly laughable!

Les

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

I am not so sure all these CCTV cameras are such a bad thing. I think people could be looking through rose tinted glasses here. In the past you could be attacked while walking down the street. Chances are that it would be your word against theirs and nothing would happen. Now, with CCTV at least you can prove your point.

I think all countries are seeing a reduction in respect from younger people, I think it comes with being more affulent. How to reslove that is a hard task to achieve, and all countries in Europe are struggling.

In addition, quite why CCTV does not reduce crime is beyond me. If there is more chance of being caught then you would think it would have some effect.

Quality of CCTV is improving too, as old video tape is replaced with digital images then you don't get those poor quality taped images from tapes that have been reused too many times.

PeteBrant

If I got stabbed to death, the fact that my killer was caught on camera would offer me little in the way of consolation.

Personally, I would prefer not to be stabbed in the first place.

That's my main problem with them, they are a reactive measure, not a proactive one. They are designed to catch offenders, not prevent the crime from happening.

OllyK

Hoodies!

pwhittle

but would having the odd copper on the beat have stopped you getting stabbed? doubtful. There were some figures a few years back which suggested a copper on the beat would only be within half a mile of a crime as it was committed, every 18 months.

Coppers on the beat is purely PR stunt, hence always being used by opposition parties. It helps tackle the fear of crime, which is very laudable, but not as good as actually tackling crime. I don't like to see money spent appeasing the public, when it can be better spent elsewhere, but it's often the case these days. I could name many examples, but I'd probably loose my job!

Anyway, we have a new, slicker Home Office from today, so all will be well

I'm sure people would be more than happy with CCTV cameras if they helped track their stolen car.

We may have more per head of population, but that's hardly surprising, considering we're probably the most densly populated affluent country.

Conversly, I think replacing traffic cars with cameras should be an offence in it's own right...

94legturbo

iTrader: (6)

the main highstreet where i live has a number of cctv cameras all along it, but i feel no safer.

i have been mugged, had my bike stolen, had my car vandalised etc. etc. and every time, the cameras have been 'facing the wrong way' or in the case of the vandalism, they saw it on cctv, but couldnt identify the people, and when they saw which car they got into, the driver when contacted wouldnt say who they were with

so there next to useless in my experience, but all of these crimes wouldnt have been commited infront of the police if they were there...

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

CCTV is yet another way of persecuting motorists, since the mainly law abiding ones amongst us are the only people going around with an identifier fixed to our front and rear views.

Take littering: my local coucil has appointed several litter wardens. What do they do? They stand around watching for someone to throw litter out of a car window, then report them. The driver then gets the usual "you must tell us who threw the litter or face prosecution", (and I'm NO WAY sure that's legal), and has to cough up. £80, easy money

Apparently, ALL council employees have been told to do this

Not that I condone littering, but why just motorists? Easy target, again

Alcazar

Diesel

My village had a Bobby, the next village had a Bobby. The inspector used to come down and walk the beat with the Bobbies now and again. They'd be around at pub closing times preventing 'high spirits'. I knew all their names; they pulled me up on many a thing and were a great deterrence; I even bought a motorbike off one [a Suzuki X7]. My mum knew their wives, my dad played golf with one of them... I think it was called 'society' and now all these Bobbies in these villages are long, long gone. The police station opposite me in town is now even a block of flats.

You must be keeping very bad company then or very nosy about the inside of a camera van

D

boomer

Too right - see No2ID - Environmential officers and the DVLA database, especially the link to Welcome everyone to our 7th TOGETHER Action Session on litter..

Welcome to the Nu Labour remote-controlled world of policing

...but if you have nothing to hide

mb

Felix.

Crime and society has changed over the years. The drug culture at the moment means that druggies are often on £100’s habits per day which can only be funded by crime. If we had this society years ago (in the days of the humble beat bobby) the police would be run ragged.

In my experience CCTV has been a great help. Remember, the TV shows will only show one aspect of it (normally the eye catching stuff) - it won’t show the bogg standard day-to-day thefts. I have had quite a few jobs where crimes have been captured on CCTV and identification has been possible. Therefore, suspect is arrested and brought to justice – hopefully sent to jail and off the streets (courts willing). It also doesn’t show known suspects being spotted on CCTV and either shopping premises being informed to keep their guard up, or police being directed to them – hence preventing crimes.

CCTV has been used to spot possible flash points around the town centre, so that police can be directed to them and prevent fights breaking out. Follow stolen cars, bikes until traffic or air support can get above them. Monitor incidents as they happen so that suspects can’t come up with some **** and bull story in interview.

I know the talking cameras seem a bit bizarre, but at the end of the day, if it prevents minor crimes or misdemeanours – what’s the issue (i.e your typical student pinching the traffic signs).

The number of police is not as high as it was, although the numbers are increasing. Even so, I don’t believe we will ever get to the state where we will have a bobby on every corner. Drug offences and the associated crimes are here to stay, so I say if CCTV helps in the preventing and detecting of these crimes then what’s the issue.

Diesel

And that is all it should be Felix - a 'help' not the be all and end all. We should be policed by policemen not by civvies, BT & IT!!! Have a word with the Union will ya!?

Also does it help prevent or does it just help prosecute - does it help CPS or the guy with a bottle in his head?

D

Jerome

Pretty impressive piccie of a pervert here.

Felix.

The civvies merely observe the cameras and direct police to the incidents, they are not policing us.

And yes, it will help prevent. If a known person is spotted around the town, premises are informed that they are out and about, so the chances of them doing anything that day are greatly reduced. More cameras are now set up in peoples homes by the owners. You tend to find that a repeat victim will eventually buy a camera (or a dummy one) and it will stop any further incidents.

Felix.

Why not just view them as an extra pair of eyes...?

Diesel

No. The emphasis is too skewed IMHO. It is all so repercussive & big bro & pro-activity has taken a back seat. You under value the deterrence of a police presence rather than current police detachment. This is the view from the street Felix, surely it is the view of most coppers with a few years under their belts too?

I wonder how much a CCTV network install would cost - a black morriah full of coppers on overtime for 10 years I guess???

Like coppers; hate 'panacea' cameras.

D

PS did you read my first post - sorry I was a bit shy, reticent and cagey there

Felix.

I agree that the numbers of officers are fewer than in previous years, but the whole mentality of the criminal society now has changed. Drug culture, drunken yobs – more female now than male, domestics etc etc. CCTV is often used to direct police into areas to prevent crimes rather than having foot patrols wandering around places which are empty. You will never have a situation where there will be a police officer meters away from every crime and you will never have a situation where offenders will tell the truth when caught – therefore CCTV will have a role to play, the recordings of which can not be disputed at court.




You will need to give an example of this as I don’t see how this is so….

PeteBrant

Because it doesn't help in the prevention of crime.

Otherwise we would have falling crime figures.