Buying 2nd Hand Cars - My Tip (and rant)
28 May 2007 | 10:59 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Scooby Regular
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 13,720
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From: Bradford
Buying 2nd Hand Cars - My Tip (and rant)
If there is one thing I really hate it is buying cars second hand! I really can’t stand it, as it seems like the vast majority of cars have some dodgy tale to tell and most owners will just lie through their back teeth to get a sale.
In total I’ve bought:
In short the majority of my cars have been disappointments.
It started with my first Impreza which was described as A1 condition. I agreed terms with the owner and a price and drove 5 hours to buy it provided it was as described. The car drove well but it was clear the owner had only just quickly ran a soapy bucket over it by way of a pre-viewing clean. It was swirly and a little tatty but just looked like it just needed TLC so I took it. The owner had told me it was totally mint and had never been painted or in an accident. I got home and polished it which process brought up the depth in shine enough to reveal paint work, orange peel and filler. The finish on that car always bothered me and it was a total nightmare to sell when I tried to shift it 1.5 years later as keener eyed buyers spotted its paintwork.
Then came Johns 406 which I absolutely loved and met every expectation. It blew up but that was entirely my fault
Next we have the blue 406 which I travelled to Leeds for. Immediately I noticed the clear coat was peeling all over the place and it was nowhere near as nice as my now dead green 406. But I was just needing a V6 for scooting around in so as long as it drove well I’d be fine. It was described as being in excellent driving order but it was like a bag of bones compared to John’s examples. I was, by this time, totally stuck for transportation so I ended up taking it even though I was disappointed by it. When I got home I doubled checked the paperwork and noted the only proof of a recent cambelt change was a stamp in a book. I phoned the garage to ask if the belt had been done and immediately the guy recognised the previous owners name (he was a trader) and was all, ‘the cars fine, did the belts, Mr X is a top bloke, etc’. I got a strong vibe he was lying his **** off and was a mate of the trader. 6 months later the belt snapped and the car was a write off.
Next was the S2000 which I flew to London from Edinburgh to see. A little bit of sex wee came out when I viewed her
Which bring us to my current car – Impreza STI-5. Its previous owner, an active Scoobynetter, (I won’t name and shame, don’t want the hassle) described it as one of the nicest (if not THE) STI 5’s in the country. Its spec was outstanding and from the pictures it was truly a cut above the rest. I’d been monitoring STI5/6’s on PH and AT for 3-4 months and nothing of this spec/condition had come up. The car was as far within Britain as you could get from my house but after an hour long phone conversation I was convinced that there wasn’t a single thing with the car to disappoint me save for a snapped ariel. I agreed to fly and upon viewing the car was pleased to see the pics really did reflect how it looked in the flesh – it was lovely for its age. I quickly noted however that the front bumper had been painted despite being told it absolutely has no paint work. I poked around and satisfied myself that this was probably to rectify stone chips as the wings seemed original, etc. I even got a lengthy drive in it running it up and down through the gears and everything seemed normal. The clutch wasn’t as positive as I’d have hoped for on organic jobby that was less than a few thousand miles old but the car seemed to drive fine.
It wasn’t until I had bought the car and started to give it serious beans (the sort of driving you wouldn’t do in someone else’s car) that it proved to me to be largely a bag of bolts. Yesterday I drove a 1999 puma on 40k miles and it drove like it was 10 minutes old. My Scooby feels much more than its 8 years and 60k miles old!!! When I accelerate it hard and change gear the clutch sometimes doesn’t come fully back up and even when it does there is a massive clunk in the drivetrain (sounds like gearbox hitting underside of car). The map runs a little lean at WOT in 5th so until I get a walbro and remap I can’t give it beans in 5th gear. The brakes are absolutely awful with warped disks that will totally fail after no more than one hard stop. I’m not joking a 30 second hard blast in the twisties and I’m left with near zero stopping power. Then there is the ‘catching’ from the rear that can be felt when coasting to a stop in neutral. Could be diff, could be sticking calliper, who knows?!? The list goes on!
I have the car with me today as it happens. It goes like stink and looks the business (when clean) but it still disappoints me in every way. If this is the ‘best STI 5’ in the country then I’d say that anyone buying a classic Impreza is a sandwich short of a picnic!!
What really hacks me off is all the reassurances on the phone before I’d travel to see these cars. In the case of my current car I talked at length and asked every question you can imagine. I intimated to the owner that I was travelling a massive distance and that I’m very picky especially on mechanical matters. I was assured that despite just 6 months of ownership he was selling as his work circumstances dictated that he MUST get something more economical and suitable to long-distance and that he was gutted to see it go. Funny that, cause he’s just bough another Impreza and he only sold his last one to me a few days before Christmas. He bought that car, realised it was a dog and sold it on as quickly as he could. Despite knowing I was a fellow SN, despite the distance, despite my pleads for him to describe the car 100% honestly he (IMHO) lied and I was unfortunate enough not to realise the major failings until I got it home. That said there was a little nagging doubt and I’ll come to how I should have acted on that in a minute.
So this weekend I’ve been on the car trail again as the beater was destroyed and we badly need it replaced since the Scooby is using coolant (sigh) and costs a fortune to run to and from work. It started with a 35 mile trip that included a 90 minute wait in a traffic jam at the forth road bridge to see a Rover 25 gti with low miles and great condition. What a bag of bolts!!!! It had 29k but drove like it was 129k and when I got under it there was oil p*ssing everywhere. The owner knew as well because when he saw me going to look under he said ‘oh there might be a little oil seepage under there but it’s nothing to worry about and isn’t dripping’. When I stood back up I looked at where the car had been parked and there was a small puddle forming!!
Then there was the Saxo VTS that was overheating enough to trigger the warning light on the test drive!!
Next there was the 1.7l Puma that was mint save for the leaking gearbox I spied when I ducked under the car. I noticed it was flagged 4 months ago at its last service as a problem requiring investigation and yet this, apparently, has not been done. I’ve looked at loads of cars this weekend and nearly every one has had something wrong with it or is being sold by Dodgy McDodgerton. I’m going to look at two more Puma’s today – I can’t imagine what I’ll face
So what is the purpose of this monster post? Well, a) to kill time till I go see the Puma’s and b) to reveal my revelation in car hunting.
I have, on the back of all this, developed a new rule that I will forevermore religiously follow no matter how much I like a car. Even if I look it over and find absolutely nothing wrong I’m always going to do the following:
Walk away from the car, the premises and the seller for a minimum of 1 hour
If that means going and finding a café for a coffee or a McDonalds for a burger, always walk away and just enjoy an hour to yourself with your thoughts. The reason for this is that twice over the weekend I felt I was pressurising myself to talk turkey over cars I had a little nagging doubt over. Both times I had the sense to walk away saying I’d get back to the owner and both times within 10-20 minutes I was amazed I’d ever even considered it. As soon as you are away from the car, the owner and the premises you find it much, much easier to be objective and the vehicle. Seriously give this a go – no matter how good the car just walk away for a coffee on your own and your true thoughts on it will pour out
My second rule is that I’m not going to travel great distances for a car again unless there is a massive over-riding reason to consider it. Sellers do not care about the hassle and expense you are going to and will lie their **** off on the off-chance that you don’t notice what they are hiding.
I realise a lot of this seems obvious to the more eagle-eyed buyers out there but there will be other guys like me that are hopeless at buying and selling stuff and I hope you find this ‘walk away for an hour’ tip useful 
Edit: LOL, it's long Nobody will ever read this will they
In total I’ve bought:
- 2 Scoobys from Scoobynet members both of which have been mis-described.
- One 406 V6 from John Banks which, as you would expect, was better than described.
- One 406 V6 from a trader that was also nowhere near as good as it was described and an S2000 private that was outstanding.
In short the majority of my cars have been disappointments.
It started with my first Impreza which was described as A1 condition. I agreed terms with the owner and a price and drove 5 hours to buy it provided it was as described. The car drove well but it was clear the owner had only just quickly ran a soapy bucket over it by way of a pre-viewing clean. It was swirly and a little tatty but just looked like it just needed TLC so I took it. The owner had told me it was totally mint and had never been painted or in an accident. I got home and polished it which process brought up the depth in shine enough to reveal paint work, orange peel and filler. The finish on that car always bothered me and it was a total nightmare to sell when I tried to shift it 1.5 years later as keener eyed buyers spotted its paintwork.
Then came Johns 406 which I absolutely loved and met every expectation. It blew up but that was entirely my fault
Next we have the blue 406 which I travelled to Leeds for. Immediately I noticed the clear coat was peeling all over the place and it was nowhere near as nice as my now dead green 406. But I was just needing a V6 for scooting around in so as long as it drove well I’d be fine. It was described as being in excellent driving order but it was like a bag of bones compared to John’s examples. I was, by this time, totally stuck for transportation so I ended up taking it even though I was disappointed by it. When I got home I doubled checked the paperwork and noted the only proof of a recent cambelt change was a stamp in a book. I phoned the garage to ask if the belt had been done and immediately the guy recognised the previous owners name (he was a trader) and was all, ‘the cars fine, did the belts, Mr X is a top bloke, etc’. I got a strong vibe he was lying his **** off and was a mate of the trader. 6 months later the belt snapped and the car was a write off.
Next was the S2000 which I flew to London from Edinburgh to see. A little bit of sex wee came out when I viewed her
Which bring us to my current car – Impreza STI-5. Its previous owner, an active Scoobynetter, (I won’t name and shame, don’t want the hassle) described it as one of the nicest (if not THE) STI 5’s in the country. Its spec was outstanding and from the pictures it was truly a cut above the rest. I’d been monitoring STI5/6’s on PH and AT for 3-4 months and nothing of this spec/condition had come up. The car was as far within Britain as you could get from my house but after an hour long phone conversation I was convinced that there wasn’t a single thing with the car to disappoint me save for a snapped ariel. I agreed to fly and upon viewing the car was pleased to see the pics really did reflect how it looked in the flesh – it was lovely for its age. I quickly noted however that the front bumper had been painted despite being told it absolutely has no paint work. I poked around and satisfied myself that this was probably to rectify stone chips as the wings seemed original, etc. I even got a lengthy drive in it running it up and down through the gears and everything seemed normal. The clutch wasn’t as positive as I’d have hoped for on organic jobby that was less than a few thousand miles old but the car seemed to drive fine.
It wasn’t until I had bought the car and started to give it serious beans (the sort of driving you wouldn’t do in someone else’s car) that it proved to me to be largely a bag of bolts. Yesterday I drove a 1999 puma on 40k miles and it drove like it was 10 minutes old. My Scooby feels much more than its 8 years and 60k miles old!!! When I accelerate it hard and change gear the clutch sometimes doesn’t come fully back up and even when it does there is a massive clunk in the drivetrain (sounds like gearbox hitting underside of car). The map runs a little lean at WOT in 5th so until I get a walbro and remap I can’t give it beans in 5th gear. The brakes are absolutely awful with warped disks that will totally fail after no more than one hard stop. I’m not joking a 30 second hard blast in the twisties and I’m left with near zero stopping power. Then there is the ‘catching’ from the rear that can be felt when coasting to a stop in neutral. Could be diff, could be sticking calliper, who knows?!? The list goes on!
I have the car with me today as it happens. It goes like stink and looks the business (when clean) but it still disappoints me in every way. If this is the ‘best STI 5’ in the country then I’d say that anyone buying a classic Impreza is a sandwich short of a picnic!!
What really hacks me off is all the reassurances on the phone before I’d travel to see these cars. In the case of my current car I talked at length and asked every question you can imagine. I intimated to the owner that I was travelling a massive distance and that I’m very picky especially on mechanical matters. I was assured that despite just 6 months of ownership he was selling as his work circumstances dictated that he MUST get something more economical and suitable to long-distance and that he was gutted to see it go. Funny that, cause he’s just bough another Impreza and he only sold his last one to me a few days before Christmas. He bought that car, realised it was a dog and sold it on as quickly as he could. Despite knowing I was a fellow SN, despite the distance, despite my pleads for him to describe the car 100% honestly he (IMHO) lied and I was unfortunate enough not to realise the major failings until I got it home. That said there was a little nagging doubt and I’ll come to how I should have acted on that in a minute.
So this weekend I’ve been on the car trail again as the beater was destroyed and we badly need it replaced since the Scooby is using coolant (sigh) and costs a fortune to run to and from work. It started with a 35 mile trip that included a 90 minute wait in a traffic jam at the forth road bridge to see a Rover 25 gti with low miles and great condition. What a bag of bolts!!!! It had 29k but drove like it was 129k and when I got under it there was oil p*ssing everywhere. The owner knew as well because when he saw me going to look under he said ‘oh there might be a little oil seepage under there but it’s nothing to worry about and isn’t dripping’. When I stood back up I looked at where the car had been parked and there was a small puddle forming!!
Then there was the Saxo VTS that was overheating enough to trigger the warning light on the test drive!!
Next there was the 1.7l Puma that was mint save for the leaking gearbox I spied when I ducked under the car. I noticed it was flagged 4 months ago at its last service as a problem requiring investigation and yet this, apparently, has not been done. I’ve looked at loads of cars this weekend and nearly every one has had something wrong with it or is being sold by Dodgy McDodgerton. I’m going to look at two more Puma’s today – I can’t imagine what I’ll face
So what is the purpose of this monster post? Well, a) to kill time till I go see the Puma’s and b) to reveal my revelation in car hunting.
I have, on the back of all this, developed a new rule that I will forevermore religiously follow no matter how much I like a car. Even if I look it over and find absolutely nothing wrong I’m always going to do the following:
Walk away from the car, the premises and the seller for a minimum of 1 hour
If that means going and finding a café for a coffee or a McDonalds for a burger, always walk away and just enjoy an hour to yourself with your thoughts. The reason for this is that twice over the weekend I felt I was pressurising myself to talk turkey over cars I had a little nagging doubt over. Both times I had the sense to walk away saying I’d get back to the owner and both times within 10-20 minutes I was amazed I’d ever even considered it. As soon as you are away from the car, the owner and the premises you find it much, much easier to be objective and the vehicle. Seriously give this a go – no matter how good the car just walk away for a coffee on your own and your true thoughts on it will pour out
My second rule is that I’m not going to travel great distances for a car again unless there is a massive over-riding reason to consider it. Sellers do not care about the hassle and expense you are going to and will lie their **** off on the off-chance that you don’t notice what they are hiding.
I realise a lot of this seems obvious to the more eagle-eyed buyers out there but there will be other guys like me that are hopeless at buying and selling stuff and I hope you find this ‘walk away for an hour’ tip useful
Edit: LOL, it's long
Nobody will ever read this will they
28 May 2007 | 11:23 AM
#2
Walk away for an hour is always a good idea. To be honest, getting an inspection is also a good plan, and as that is normally on another day you will always have extra time to think
28 May 2007 | 11:24 AM
#3
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,581
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You're a picky ******. If you want perfection, buy a new car.
You're buying used, in some cases you're talking about cars that are 8 years old and imported from a foreign land, FFS! Most people are incapable of spotting when paintwork has being done, most people get in their car and drive every day and think that the way it drives is normal. You, sir, are an **** freak.
I hope this helps.
You're buying used, in some cases you're talking about cars that are 8 years old and imported from a foreign land, FFS! Most people are incapable of spotting when paintwork has being done, most people get in their car and drive every day and think that the way it drives is normal. You, sir, are an **** freak.
I hope this helps.
28 May 2007 | 11:30 AM
#4
Thread Starter
Scooby Regular
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 13,720
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From: Bradford
REV, I offer you to come to Edinburgh and drive my car anytime you want. If you think its a good example of a Subaru then I'll show you the price I paid for it and you can have it for 50% of that if you can put your hand on your heart that you like it. You'll hate it. It's ****e!
I don't want perfection from an 8 year old car I just want it to be mechanically sound and drive well. I'm not joking about the brakes! One 100-0mph stop and then next one will take 2-3 times the distance as you'll have ZERO stopping power. I soooooooooo nearly binned it the first time this happened on an aggressive drive.
I don't want perfection from an 8 year old car I just want it to be mechanically sound and drive well. I'm not joking about the brakes! One 100-0mph stop and then next one will take 2-3 times the distance as you'll have ZERO stopping power. I soooooooooo nearly binned it the first time this happened on an aggressive drive.
28 May 2007 | 11:41 AM
#6
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Joined: Jan 2002
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And just so you know, I went to see an STI 5 RA Limited a couple of years back that was described as in immaculate condition. It had been stored in an underground carpark and not washed for about a year, someone had nicked the side repeater lights, there was a weird whirring noise from the clutch area and the paperwork was the dodgiest I'd ever seen (the chassis number was right, the reg number wasn't, didn't match the address etc.) so I walked away despite the long drive to get there.
Equally, when I've sold a car in the past that everyone I know would describe as immaculate, the buyer complained that the engine bay wasn't as clean as he'd expect from an enthusiast. It's an engine bay not a dinner plate, get over it.
Equally, when I've sold a car in the past that everyone I know would describe as immaculate, the buyer complained that the engine bay wasn't as clean as he'd expect from an enthusiast. It's an engine bay not a dinner plate, get over it.
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28 May 2007 | 11:54 AM
#8
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 9,173
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From: Under your bonnet
I gave up reading half way through..
I think you need to learn to walk away if you're not happy, five hour journey or not!
Sod the questions too..... If it's something you are after, go take a look and make up your own mind.
Andy
I think you need to learn to walk away if you're not happy, five hour journey or not!
Sod the questions too..... If it's something you are after, go take a look and make up your own mind.
Andy
28 May 2007 | 12:01 PM
#9
Scooby Regular
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 46,493
Likes: 13
From: riding the crest of a wave ...
If there is one thing I really hate it is buying cars second hand! I really can’t stand it, as it seems like the vast majority of cars have some dodgy tale to tell and most owners will just lie through their back teeth to get a sale.
In total I’ve bought:
In short the majority of my cars have been disappointments.
It started with my first Impreza which was described as A1 condition. I agreed terms with the owner and a price and drove 5 hours to buy it provided it was as described. The car drove well but it was clear the owner had only just quickly ran a soapy bucket over it by way of a pre-viewing clean. It was swirly and a little tatty but just looked like it just needed TLC so I took it. The owner had told me it was totally mint and had never been painted or in an accident. I got home and polished it which process brought up the depth in shine enough to reveal paint work, orange peel and filler. The finish on that car always bothered me and it was a total nightmare to sell when I tried to shift it 1.5 years later as keener eyed buyers spotted its paintwork.
Then came Johns 406 which I absolutely loved and met every expectation. It blew up but that was entirely my fault
Next we have the blue 406 which I travelled to Leeds for. Immediately I noticed the clear coat was peeling all over the place and it was nowhere near as nice as my now dead green 406. But I was just needing a V6 for scooting around in so as long as it drove well I’d be fine. It was described as being in excellent driving order but it was like a bag of bones compared to John’s examples. I was, by this time, totally stuck for transportation so I ended up taking it even though I was disappointed by it. When I got home I doubled checked the paperwork and noted the only proof of a recent cambelt change was a stamp in a book. I phoned the garage to ask if the belt had been done and immediately the guy recognised the previous owners name (he was a trader) and was all, ‘the cars fine, did the belts, Mr X is a top bloke, etc’. I got a strong vibe he was lying his **** off and was a mate of the trader. 6 months later the belt snapped and the car was a write off.
Next was the S2000 which I flew to London from Edinburgh to see. A little bit of sex wee came out when I viewed her
Which bring us to my current car – Impreza STI-5. Its previous owner, an active Scoobynetter, (I won’t name and shame, don’t want the hassle) described it as one of the nicest (if not THE) STI 5’s in the country. Its spec was outstanding and from the pictures it was truly a cut above the rest. I’d been monitoring STI5/6’s on PH and AT for 3-4 months and nothing of this spec/condition had come up. The car was as far within Britain as you could get from my house but after an hour long phone conversation I was convinced that there wasn’t a single thing with the car to disappoint me save for a snapped ariel. I agreed to fly and upon viewing the car was pleased to see the pics really did reflect how it looked in the flesh – it was lovely for its age. I quickly noted however that the front bumper had been painted despite being told it absolutely has no paint work. I poked around and satisfied myself that this was probably to rectify stone chips as the wings seemed original, etc. I even got a lengthy drive in it running it up and down through the gears and everything seemed normal. The clutch wasn’t as positive as I’d have hoped for on organic jobby that was less than a few thousand miles old but the car seemed to drive fine.
It wasn’t until I had bought the car and started to give it serious beans (the sort of driving you wouldn’t do in someone else’s car) that it proved to me to be largely a bag of bolts. Yesterday I drove a 1999 puma on 40k miles and it drove like it was 10 minutes old. My Scooby feels much more than its 8 years and 60k miles old!!! When I accelerate it hard and change gear the clutch sometimes doesn’t come fully back up and even when it does there is a massive clunk in the drivetrain (sounds like gearbox hitting underside of car). The map runs a little lean at WOT in 5th so until I get a walbro and remap I can’t give it beans in 5th gear. The brakes are absolutely awful with warped disks that will totally fail after no more than one hard stop. I’m not joking a 30 second hard blast in the twisties and I’m left with near zero stopping power. Then there is the ‘catching’ from the rear that can be felt when coasting to a stop in neutral. Could be diff, could be sticking calliper, who knows?!? The list goes on!
I have the car with me today as it happens. It goes like stink and looks the business (when clean) but it still disappoints me in every way. If this is the ‘best STI 5’ in the country then I’d say that anyone buying a classic Impreza is a sandwich short of a picnic!!
What really hacks me off is all the reassurances on the phone before I’d travel to see these cars. In the case of my current car I talked at length and asked every question you can imagine. I intimated to the owner that I was travelling a massive distance and that I’m very picky especially on mechanical matters. I was assured that despite just 6 months of ownership he was selling as his work circumstances dictated that he MUST get something more economical and suitable to long-distance and that he was gutted to see it go. Funny that, cause he’s just bough another Impreza and he only sold his last one to me a few days before Christmas. He bought that car, realised it was a dog and sold it on as quickly as he could. Despite knowing I was a fellow SN, despite the distance, despite my pleads for him to describe the car 100% honestly he (IMHO) lied and I was unfortunate enough not to realise the major failings until I got it home. That said there was a little nagging doubt and I’ll come to how I should have acted on that in a minute.
So this weekend I’ve been on the car trail again as the beater was destroyed and we badly need it replaced since the Scooby is using coolant (sigh) and costs a fortune to run to and from work. It started with a 35 mile trip that included a 90 minute wait in a traffic jam at the forth road bridge to see a Rover 25 gti with low miles and great condition. What a bag of bolts!!!! It had 29k but drove like it was 129k and when I got under it there was oil p*ssing everywhere. The owner knew as well because when he saw me going to look under he said ‘oh there might be a little oil seepage under there but it’s nothing to worry about and isn’t dripping’. When I stood back up I looked at where the car had been parked and there was a small puddle forming!!
Then there was the Saxo VTS that was overheating enough to trigger the warning light on the test drive!!
Next there was the 1.7l Puma that was mint save for the leaking gearbox I spied when I ducked under the car. I noticed it was flagged 4 months ago at its last service as a problem requiring investigation and yet this, apparently, has not been done. I’ve looked at loads of cars this weekend and nearly every one has had something wrong with it or is being sold by Dodgy McDodgerton. I’m going to look at two more Puma’s today – I can’t imagine what I’ll face
So what is the purpose of this monster post? Well, a) to kill time till I go see the Puma’s and b) to reveal my revelation in car hunting.
I have, on the back of all this, developed a new rule that I will forevermore religiously follow no matter how much I like a car. Even if I look it over and find absolutely nothing wrong I’m always going to do the following:
Walk away from the car, the premises and the seller for a minimum of 1 hour
If that means going and finding a café for a coffee or a McDonalds for a burger, always walk away and just enjoy an hour to yourself with your thoughts. The reason for this is that twice over the weekend I felt I was pressurising myself to talk turkey over cars I had a little nagging doubt over. Both times I had the sense to walk away saying I’d get back to the owner and both times within 10-20 minutes I was amazed I’d ever even considered it. As soon as you are away from the car, the owner and the premises you find it much, much easier to be objective and the vehicle. Seriously give this a go – no matter how good the car just walk away for a coffee on your own and your true thoughts on it will pour out
My second rule is that I’m not going to travel great distances for a car again unless there is a massive over-riding reason to consider it. Sellers do not care about the hassle and expense you are going to and will lie their **** off on the off-chance that you don’t notice what they are hiding.
I realise a lot of this seems obvious to the more eagle-eyed buyers out there but there will be other guys like me that are hopeless at buying and selling stuff and I hope you find this ‘walk away for an hour’ tip useful
Edit: LOL, it's long Nobody will ever read this will they
In total I’ve bought:
- 2 Scoobys from Scoobynet members both of which have been mis-described.
- One 406 V6 from John Banks which, as you would expect, was better than described.
- One 406 V6 from a trader that was also nowhere near as good as it was described and an S2000 private that was outstanding.
In short the majority of my cars have been disappointments.
It started with my first Impreza which was described as A1 condition. I agreed terms with the owner and a price and drove 5 hours to buy it provided it was as described. The car drove well but it was clear the owner had only just quickly ran a soapy bucket over it by way of a pre-viewing clean. It was swirly and a little tatty but just looked like it just needed TLC so I took it. The owner had told me it was totally mint and had never been painted or in an accident. I got home and polished it which process brought up the depth in shine enough to reveal paint work, orange peel and filler. The finish on that car always bothered me and it was a total nightmare to sell when I tried to shift it 1.5 years later as keener eyed buyers spotted its paintwork.
Then came Johns 406 which I absolutely loved and met every expectation. It blew up but that was entirely my fault
Next we have the blue 406 which I travelled to Leeds for. Immediately I noticed the clear coat was peeling all over the place and it was nowhere near as nice as my now dead green 406. But I was just needing a V6 for scooting around in so as long as it drove well I’d be fine. It was described as being in excellent driving order but it was like a bag of bones compared to John’s examples. I was, by this time, totally stuck for transportation so I ended up taking it even though I was disappointed by it. When I got home I doubled checked the paperwork and noted the only proof of a recent cambelt change was a stamp in a book. I phoned the garage to ask if the belt had been done and immediately the guy recognised the previous owners name (he was a trader) and was all, ‘the cars fine, did the belts, Mr X is a top bloke, etc’. I got a strong vibe he was lying his **** off and was a mate of the trader. 6 months later the belt snapped and the car was a write off.
Next was the S2000 which I flew to London from Edinburgh to see. A little bit of sex wee came out when I viewed her
Which bring us to my current car – Impreza STI-5. Its previous owner, an active Scoobynetter, (I won’t name and shame, don’t want the hassle) described it as one of the nicest (if not THE) STI 5’s in the country. Its spec was outstanding and from the pictures it was truly a cut above the rest. I’d been monitoring STI5/6’s on PH and AT for 3-4 months and nothing of this spec/condition had come up. The car was as far within Britain as you could get from my house but after an hour long phone conversation I was convinced that there wasn’t a single thing with the car to disappoint me save for a snapped ariel. I agreed to fly and upon viewing the car was pleased to see the pics really did reflect how it looked in the flesh – it was lovely for its age. I quickly noted however that the front bumper had been painted despite being told it absolutely has no paint work. I poked around and satisfied myself that this was probably to rectify stone chips as the wings seemed original, etc. I even got a lengthy drive in it running it up and down through the gears and everything seemed normal. The clutch wasn’t as positive as I’d have hoped for on organic jobby that was less than a few thousand miles old but the car seemed to drive fine.
It wasn’t until I had bought the car and started to give it serious beans (the sort of driving you wouldn’t do in someone else’s car) that it proved to me to be largely a bag of bolts. Yesterday I drove a 1999 puma on 40k miles and it drove like it was 10 minutes old. My Scooby feels much more than its 8 years and 60k miles old!!! When I accelerate it hard and change gear the clutch sometimes doesn’t come fully back up and even when it does there is a massive clunk in the drivetrain (sounds like gearbox hitting underside of car). The map runs a little lean at WOT in 5th so until I get a walbro and remap I can’t give it beans in 5th gear. The brakes are absolutely awful with warped disks that will totally fail after no more than one hard stop. I’m not joking a 30 second hard blast in the twisties and I’m left with near zero stopping power. Then there is the ‘catching’ from the rear that can be felt when coasting to a stop in neutral. Could be diff, could be sticking calliper, who knows?!? The list goes on!
I have the car with me today as it happens. It goes like stink and looks the business (when clean) but it still disappoints me in every way. If this is the ‘best STI 5’ in the country then I’d say that anyone buying a classic Impreza is a sandwich short of a picnic!!
What really hacks me off is all the reassurances on the phone before I’d travel to see these cars. In the case of my current car I talked at length and asked every question you can imagine. I intimated to the owner that I was travelling a massive distance and that I’m very picky especially on mechanical matters. I was assured that despite just 6 months of ownership he was selling as his work circumstances dictated that he MUST get something more economical and suitable to long-distance and that he was gutted to see it go. Funny that, cause he’s just bough another Impreza and he only sold his last one to me a few days before Christmas. He bought that car, realised it was a dog and sold it on as quickly as he could. Despite knowing I was a fellow SN, despite the distance, despite my pleads for him to describe the car 100% honestly he (IMHO) lied and I was unfortunate enough not to realise the major failings until I got it home. That said there was a little nagging doubt and I’ll come to how I should have acted on that in a minute.
So this weekend I’ve been on the car trail again as the beater was destroyed and we badly need it replaced since the Scooby is using coolant (sigh) and costs a fortune to run to and from work. It started with a 35 mile trip that included a 90 minute wait in a traffic jam at the forth road bridge to see a Rover 25 gti with low miles and great condition. What a bag of bolts!!!! It had 29k but drove like it was 129k and when I got under it there was oil p*ssing everywhere. The owner knew as well because when he saw me going to look under he said ‘oh there might be a little oil seepage under there but it’s nothing to worry about and isn’t dripping’. When I stood back up I looked at where the car had been parked and there was a small puddle forming!!
Then there was the Saxo VTS that was overheating enough to trigger the warning light on the test drive!!
Next there was the 1.7l Puma that was mint save for the leaking gearbox I spied when I ducked under the car. I noticed it was flagged 4 months ago at its last service as a problem requiring investigation and yet this, apparently, has not been done. I’ve looked at loads of cars this weekend and nearly every one has had something wrong with it or is being sold by Dodgy McDodgerton. I’m going to look at two more Puma’s today – I can’t imagine what I’ll face
So what is the purpose of this monster post? Well, a) to kill time till I go see the Puma’s and b) to reveal my revelation in car hunting.
I have, on the back of all this, developed a new rule that I will forevermore religiously follow no matter how much I like a car. Even if I look it over and find absolutely nothing wrong I’m always going to do the following:
Walk away from the car, the premises and the seller for a minimum of 1 hour
If that means going and finding a café for a coffee or a McDonalds for a burger, always walk away and just enjoy an hour to yourself with your thoughts. The reason for this is that twice over the weekend I felt I was pressurising myself to talk turkey over cars I had a little nagging doubt over. Both times I had the sense to walk away saying I’d get back to the owner and both times within 10-20 minutes I was amazed I’d ever even considered it. As soon as you are away from the car, the owner and the premises you find it much, much easier to be objective and the vehicle. Seriously give this a go – no matter how good the car just walk away for a coffee on your own and your true thoughts on it will pour out
My second rule is that I’m not going to travel great distances for a car again unless there is a massive over-riding reason to consider it. Sellers do not care about the hassle and expense you are going to and will lie their **** off on the off-chance that you don’t notice what they are hiding.
I realise a lot of this seems obvious to the more eagle-eyed buyers out there but there will be other guys like me that are hopeless at buying and selling stuff and I hope you find this ‘walk away for an hour’ tip useful
Edit: LOL, it's long
Nobody will ever read this will they se la vie
- the bus is cheaper you dont have to get under the hood but you might have to queue in the rain,for a while
28 May 2007 | 12:06 PM
#10
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From: riding the crest of a wave ...
You're a picky ******. If you want perfection, buy a new car.
You're buying used, in some cases you're talking about cars that are 8 years old and imported from a foreign land, FFS! Most people are incapable of spotting when paintwork has being done, most people get in their car and drive every day and think that the way it drives is normal. You, sir, are an **** freak.
I hope this helps.
You're buying used, in some cases you're talking about cars that are 8 years old and imported from a foreign land, FFS! Most people are incapable of spotting when paintwork has being done, most people get in their car and drive every day and think that the way it drives is normal. You, sir, are an **** freak.
I hope this helps.
28 May 2007 | 12:13 PM
#11
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If you want the feel of a new car, buy a new one you tight ****
The STI5 you discribe just sounds like a typical Subaru, quality was'nt first on the list when new in 99 let alone what it feels like 8 years later
I would say if your going to buy second hand, you need a car between 1 and 2 years old (obviuosly does'nt apply for a run around)
The STI5 you discribe just sounds like a typical Subaru, quality was'nt first on the list when new in 99 let alone what it feels like 8 years later
I would say if your going to buy second hand, you need a car between 1 and 2 years old (obviuosly does'nt apply for a run around)
28 May 2007 | 12:15 PM
#12
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From: riding the crest of a wave ...
I gave up third of the way thro
28 May 2007 | 12:21 PM
#13
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From: 392/361 MY04 STi
Mate, you're not gonna have much chance of selling it on here now.
I've been lucky with cars, bought all private, only bought one dog....Golf GTi for £700.
Can you send for an AA/RAC/etc inspection, without you being there? Give them the address, wait for the report, if good, then go view??
I also took a one-way flight to view my current car. Luckily it was as described, but turned out to be an EU, not UK car. Few phones calls to check IM, servicing and insurance and a barter with price. Deal was still done.
Probably not what you want to hear when you're having a 'mare.
I've been lucky with cars, bought all private, only bought one dog....Golf GTi for £700.
Can you send for an AA/RAC/etc inspection, without you being there? Give them the address, wait for the report, if good, then go view??
I also took a one-way flight to view my current car. Luckily it was as described, but turned out to be an EU, not UK car. Few phones calls to check IM, servicing and insurance and a barter with price. Deal was still done.
Probably not what you want to hear when you're having a 'mare.
28 May 2007 | 01:24 PM
#15
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If you can't see these problems for yourself when you inspect a car, haven't you got a knowledgeable friend to go with you and give you some sensible advice. Cant think why you buy a car if you say you have suspicions about it.
Its a minefield, especially when you are looking for a high performance car. You have to be ultra suspicious when you are looking for something like that.It is always worth changing a cambelt regardless when you buy a S/H car anyway. The consequences don't justify the risk.
Les
Its a minefield, especially when you are looking for a high performance car. You have to be ultra suspicious when you are looking for something like that.It is always worth changing a cambelt regardless when you buy a S/H car anyway. The consequences don't justify the risk.
Les
28 May 2007 | 01:49 PM
#16
Pick any 2
Cheap - Fast - Reliable
Been there SB, should have run a mile with the Fiat Coupe, got there to buy it, pending a test drive as it has been stuck right behind several other cars when I first saw it, the front tyres had about 2 psi in them, no gearnob, no petrol and it didnt pull right, being a *** I still bought it seeing as it had warranty, however I was told to go away one I took it back, never buy a car from a small dealer in Wilmslow called Chartoak, the car used loads of oil, didnt boost right and was a lemon, sold it on as needing work, the lad who bought it ended up putting a turbo on it, and then doing the engine.
Then there was the mint BRM I went to see, it had already had the HG done, needles to say it went again straaight away, stay away from these, just trouble. I reckon the seller on mine had it bodged and had been told to offload it quick.
Bought my Saab from a local dealer and to be honest I was a pain in the **** for him, he was very patient as he appreciated the aggro I had been through, gave me the option to leave it and have my deposit back, did the minor jobs it needed and the car has been great.
I do appreciate the problems you have had but your are quite demanding, of the car (drag racing a 406 ?) and with your research, even new cars wouldnt meet your standards.
I have now learnt my lesson, if it doesn't feel right, walk away, trust your gut instinct, dont get carried away, there is always another car to buy.
Cheap - Fast - Reliable
Been there SB, should have run a mile with the Fiat Coupe, got there to buy it, pending a test drive as it has been stuck right behind several other cars when I first saw it, the front tyres had about 2 psi in them, no gearnob, no petrol and it didnt pull right, being a *** I still bought it seeing as it had warranty, however I was told to go away one I took it back, never buy a car from a small dealer in Wilmslow called Chartoak, the car used loads of oil, didnt boost right and was a lemon, sold it on as needing work, the lad who bought it ended up putting a turbo on it, and then doing the engine.
Then there was the mint BRM I went to see, it had already had the HG done, needles to say it went again straaight away, stay away from these, just trouble. I reckon the seller on mine had it bodged and had been told to offload it quick.
Bought my Saab from a local dealer and to be honest I was a pain in the **** for him, he was very patient as he appreciated the aggro I had been through, gave me the option to leave it and have my deposit back, did the minor jobs it needed and the car has been great.
I do appreciate the problems you have had but your are quite demanding, of the car (drag racing a 406 ?) and with your research, even new cars wouldnt meet your standards.
I have now learnt my lesson, if it doesn't feel right, walk away, trust your gut instinct, dont get carried away, there is always another car to buy.
28 May 2007 | 02:36 PM
#17
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From: Bradford
I do appreciate the problems you have had but your are quite demanding, of the car (drag racing a 406 ?) and with your research, even new cars wouldnt meet your standards.
I have now learnt my lesson, if it doesn't feel right, walk away, trust your gut instinct, dont get carried away, there is always another car to buy.
I have now learnt my lesson, if it doesn't feel right, walk away, trust your gut instinct, dont get carried away, there is always another car to buy.
The 406 got pushed beyond what it was perhaps designed for. I still think I got 2nd at 90mph as opposed to 4th! That would certainly explain the valve lash!Agree on the guts thing as well. I just saw a silver Puma and honestly couldn't fault it but I just had bad vibes around the car and the guy/outfit selling it. I think I'll probably go for the one I first saw which had a few scuffs and dings but drove like new. I'm more interested in a car being mechanically sound as a pound than looking the nuts.
Incidently scooby was going well today - it's not a total pup but realistically to be happy I'd have to fit a walbro, remap it, investigate and repair the knock, probably fix/replace the clutch and critically totally replace the brake set up. Not sure I can be arsed to be honest
28 May 2007 | 02:37 PM
#18
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From: Location: Location.
Hi m8
Must admit to not buying privately as can be a pain and little comeback. Agree with your walk away for an hour as i always go home and tell the garage that I'll phone once I've thought about it. They always call me and if I am keen on the car I can usually get something extra at that point(even if only a tank of petrol). Be as picky as you like it's your money
Alasdair
Must admit to not buying privately as can be a pain and little comeback. Agree with your walk away for an hour as i always go home and tell the garage that I'll phone once I've thought about it. They always call me and if I am keen on the car I can usually get something extra at that point(even if only a tank of petrol). Be as picky as you like it's your money
Alasdair
28 May 2007 | 06:50 PM
#20
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From: Edinburgh (ish)
Reckon we should call you "Ken-nae-luck" !
Seriously, when buying a performance car privately you need to factor in a few potential bills - you might save on not paying forecourt prices, but it shouldn't be assumed.
Once you have new discs/walbro/clutch fix you'll think the car's great Kenny.
Andy Mc
28 May 2007 | 07:44 PM
#22
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From: Bradford
LOL, I sense you are preparing to lie and say, 'cars fine' I'd defo win just now anyway as its using 500ml of water per 25 miles which is certainly NOT fair cop.
I don't think its just as simple as money. The best condition car I've had was my S2000 and it was also the most expensive but the green 406 was (in relative terms) a close 2nd. It was 1997/P with 70k miles some wear on the leather and the heaters seats didn't work (as always). The engine sometimes didn't come 'on cam' till 1000rpm late requiring regular ecu resets to bring it back in line and and cruise control played up from time to time. However, for its age and mileage it was a really sound car and I didn't even have to search around for it (I presume john did). There is a lot to be said for time and effort when picking through the second hand market IMHO.
I'd defo win just now anyway as its using 500ml of water per 25 miles which is certainly NOT fair cop.I don't think its just as simple as money. The best condition car I've had was my S2000 and it was also the most expensive but the green 406 was (in relative terms) a close 2nd. It was 1997/P with 70k miles some wear on the leather and the heaters seats didn't work (as always). The engine sometimes didn't come 'on cam' till 1000rpm late requiring regular ecu resets to bring it back in line and and cruise control played up from time to time. However, for its age and mileage it was a really sound car and I didn't even have to search around for it (I presume john did). There is a lot to be said for time and effort when picking through the second hand market IMHO.
28 May 2007 | 08:39 PM
#23
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TBH the last several cars i've bought from dealers as i don't trust private sellers any more and i've had the same luck as you
astra SRi - drove 40+ miles to motorpoint to see this mint car and the front bumper corner was a different shade of silver, told them i wanted it sorting and after them saying no they agreed to sort it for the end of the week - this turned out to be almost 2 weeks later
325 compact - drove 140 miles as it was described as immaculate - all wheels were kerbed but thought i'd be swapping them anyway so wasn't so concerned. When giving it it's 1st polish i noticed the bonnet was creased from underneath all the way across (could just been seen at certain angles)
206gti - drove 40+ miles - all wheels were kerbed, dent in o/s/r panel, induction kit fitted. I said i wanted everything sorting before i picked it up and they agreed - a week later the wheels had been refurbed (looked ok at first but a week later they started to look rough), said they couldn't get behind the dent to push it out (they could have), filter not put back to standard (took 3 weeks to get a new standard box)
S40 turbo - drove 50+ miles - car seemed mint as described but a week later the engine light came on, i had to take it back to the garage i bought it from for their warranty and this was a weekly thing (3 times)
Mini cooper - 100+miles - car seemed mint but when i was driving away it pulled sharply to the left and the airbag light stayed on.
It was agreed i'd take the car and get it sorted locally and send the bill to them - 4 days later it was in a head on so got sorted by the bodyshop (although i still sent a ficticious invoice to garage and got paid £300)
the list goes on
In the past i've had 5 brand new cars and 4 of them have had paint problems, electrical problems, damaged trim, etc which is why i stopped buying new
astra SRi - drove 40+ miles to motorpoint to see this mint car and the front bumper corner was a different shade of silver, told them i wanted it sorting and after them saying no they agreed to sort it for the end of the week - this turned out to be almost 2 weeks later
325 compact - drove 140 miles as it was described as immaculate - all wheels were kerbed but thought i'd be swapping them anyway so wasn't so concerned. When giving it it's 1st polish i noticed the bonnet was creased from underneath all the way across (could just been seen at certain angles)
206gti - drove 40+ miles - all wheels were kerbed, dent in o/s/r panel, induction kit fitted. I said i wanted everything sorting before i picked it up and they agreed - a week later the wheels had been refurbed (looked ok at first but a week later they started to look rough), said they couldn't get behind the dent to push it out (they could have), filter not put back to standard (took 3 weeks to get a new standard box)
S40 turbo - drove 50+ miles - car seemed mint as described but a week later the engine light came on, i had to take it back to the garage i bought it from for their warranty and this was a weekly thing (3 times)
Mini cooper - 100+miles - car seemed mint but when i was driving away it pulled sharply to the left and the airbag light stayed on.
It was agreed i'd take the car and get it sorted locally and send the bill to them - 4 days later it was in a head on so got sorted by the bodyshop (although i still sent a ficticious invoice to garage and got paid £300)
the list goes on
In the past i've had 5 brand new cars and 4 of them have had paint problems, electrical problems, damaged trim, etc which is why i stopped buying new
29 May 2007 | 09:13 AM
#24
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Kenny, interestingly you describe the 406 you bought off Doc Banks as the second best condition car you've owned and then you reel off a list of faults that would put the average buyer off. The main difference here is that presumably John told you about these up front and so you accepted these faults and enjoyed the rest of the car.
I genuinely beleive that you are are victom of your own attitude towards a vehicle. When I view a car I assume the seller is lying and make up my own mind about everything else. I've never got a car home and found a problem I didn't expect. Why ask if a car has ever had paint? The owner might genuinley believe it hasn't and you're going to look for evidence yourself.
Assume every car you're going to view is a horrible ****box and prepare to be suprised when it turns out to be a minter
I genuinely beleive that you are are victom of your own attitude towards a vehicle. When I view a car I assume the seller is lying and make up my own mind about everything else. I've never got a car home and found a problem I didn't expect. Why ask if a car has ever had paint? The owner might genuinley believe it hasn't and you're going to look for evidence yourself.
Assume every car you're going to view is a horrible ****box and prepare to be suprised when it turns out to be a minter
29 May 2007 | 09:37 AM
#26
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From: Scotland
I genuinely beleive that you are are victom of your own attitude towards a vehicle. When I view a car I assume the seller is lying and make up my own mind about everything else. I've never got a car home and found a problem I didn't expect. Why ask if a car has ever had paint? The owner might genuinley believe it hasn't and you're going to look for evidence yourself.
Assume every car you're going to view is a horrible ****box and prepare to be suprised when it turns out to be a minter
Assume every car you're going to view is a horrible ****box and prepare to be suprised when it turns out to be a minter
29 May 2007 | 10:19 AM
#28
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From: Couch Spud
Have to say this story reminds me of a conversation I had with my next door neighbour (he owns a garage and sells the odd car now and then, myself having purchased two cars from him in the past)
He is sick to death of customers buying cars from him then complaining they arent like showroom cars that have just rolled off the production line
I am assuming that Saxo Boy has said what he has about the car he bought from John Banks, is that he goes back a long way with John, and therefore would only ever say good about it (I may be wrong though)
The two cars I purchased from my neighbour had the odd dings in them, had kerbed alloys, one electric window wouldnt work, heater was a bit iffy, and quite a few other bits n bobs not perfect, I didn't give a monkeys, as he told me about some of the things, plus I got to have both cars for a few days to do as I pleased before handing over any cash
I bought my Scoob back in 2002 and drove a long way to view it, the owner told me a few details over the phone, and he was true to his word on the condition of the car, he told me he had owned it for just over 2 years and it had never been driven in the rain, and on the test drive it started to rain and he almost broke down in tears to see his car get rained on
Needless to say I bought it, and put 80k miles on the clock, never skipped a beat, clutch etc still original with life left, and its been modded a fair bit, I have to say one of the best cars I have ever purchased
He is sick to death of customers buying cars from him then complaining they arent like showroom cars that have just rolled off the production line
I am assuming that Saxo Boy has said what he has about the car he bought from John Banks, is that he goes back a long way with John, and therefore would only ever say good about it (I may be wrong though
)The two cars I purchased from my neighbour had the odd dings in them, had kerbed alloys, one electric window wouldnt work, heater was a bit iffy, and quite a few other bits n bobs not perfect, I didn't give a monkeys, as he told me about some of the things, plus I got to have both cars for a few days to do as I pleased before handing over any cash
I bought my Scoob back in 2002 and drove a long way to view it, the owner told me a few details over the phone, and he was true to his word on the condition of the car, he told me he had owned it for just over 2 years and it had never been driven in the rain, and on the test drive it started to rain and he almost broke down in tears to see his car get rained on
Needless to say I bought it, and put 80k miles on the clock, never skipped a beat, clutch etc still original with life left, and its been modded a fair bit, I have to say one of the best cars I have ever purchased
29 May 2007 | 10:26 AM
#29
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From: Bradford
Kenny, interestingly you describe the 406 you bought off Doc Banks as the second best condition car you've owned and then you reel off a list of faults that would put the average buyer off. The main difference here is that presumably John told you about these up front and so you accepted these faults and enjoyed the rest of the car.
29 May 2007 | 10:46 AM
#30
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From: Mars
Drove 200 miles (in a Corsa hire car!) to see a Forester XT and drew out the full asking price (£14k) in cash, fully expecting to buy the car.
A few things just weren't right (greeted by owners mother - she said her son had had terrible problems with thieves, two rear windows had been replaced, very uneven tyre wear) and although I made a low offer, he wouldn't even consider it so walked away - Painful but glad we did it.
The Subaru dealer was about a million times better.
I help all my mates (and relatives) buy cars and have even written up a little checklist for them all to use!
A few things just weren't right (greeted by owners mother - she said her son had had terrible problems with thieves, two rear windows had been replaced, very uneven tyre wear) and although I made a low offer, he wouldn't even consider it so walked away - Painful but glad we did it.
The Subaru dealer was about a million times better.
I help all my mates (and relatives) buy cars and have even written up a little checklist for them all to use!