McLaren could be in serious trouble!....
#1
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McLaren could be in serious trouble!....
Newspaper quotes from de la Rosa-Alonso email - Yahoo! Eurosport UK
Oh dear.. if this is all correct then McLaren will surely get thrown of the 2007 and maybe also 2008 championships.
The article claims senior members such as Ron Dennis and Mike Coughlan could be jailed if its proven they did know about stolen information from Ferrari.
I expect Alonso will be off to Renault and Hamilton has apparently already agreed to go to Toro Rosso if they are thrown out of the 2008 season.
"Do you know that I've found out how Ferrari is able to get its tires to work to perfection?" de la Rosa was quoted as writing to Alonso earlier this year.
He added: "Nigel Stepney told Mike Coughlan."
"I don't believe it," Alonso reportedly replied.
He added: "Nigel Stepney told Mike Coughlan."
"I don't believe it," Alonso reportedly replied.
The article claims senior members such as Ron Dennis and Mike Coughlan could be jailed if its proven they did know about stolen information from Ferrari.
I expect Alonso will be off to Renault and Hamilton has apparently already agreed to go to Toro Rosso if they are thrown out of the 2008 season.
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More mountains out of molehills from the media as ever
The biggest laugh is the Hamilton to Torro Rosso comment, why would one of the best newcomers ever to F1 need to go to a back of the grid B team. I have a feeling that should he leave McLaren he would have pretty much the pick of the remaining teams.
The biggest laugh is the Hamilton to Torro Rosso comment, why would one of the best newcomers ever to F1 need to go to a back of the grid B team. I have a feeling that should he leave McLaren he would have pretty much the pick of the remaining teams.
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Hahashahahaa - total and utter nonsense. Hamilton to Torro Rosso. What makes it worse is you wrote it down, let alone believe it...
Next you'll be telling me it's Ralf to replace Alonso. Button to replace Fisichella. And Colin McRae to Red Bull...
Worth a laugh - then delete...
Next you'll be telling me it's Ralf to replace Alonso. Button to replace Fisichella. And Colin McRae to Red Bull...
Worth a laugh - then delete...
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#8
Yawn,,, Who gives a toss
so Alonso go's, to X, Hamilton to Y () button to Z.. etc, and the roundabout goes on and on and on...
lets face it every year, theres a xxxxxxx (insert team name) scandal...if it aint the red team, its some other team shouting impropriaty
if anything the FIA should give Mclaren a pat on the back, and telling ferrari, "thats what you should have done with the technology"
Mart
Asl long as hamilton wins, the rest can go drive round racetracks
Mart
so Alonso go's, to X, Hamilton to Y () button to Z.. etc, and the roundabout goes on and on and on...
lets face it every year, theres a xxxxxxx (insert team name) scandal...if it aint the red team, its some other team shouting impropriaty
if anything the FIA should give Mclaren a pat on the back, and telling ferrari, "thats what you should have done with the technology"
Mart
Asl long as hamilton wins, the rest can go drive round racetracks
Mart
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Yawn,,, Who gives a toss
so Alonso go's, to X, Hamilton to Y () button to Z.. etc, and the roundabout goes on and on and on...
lets face it every year, theres a xxxxxxx (insert team name) scandal...if it aint the red team, its some other team shouting impropriaty
if anything the FIA should give Mclaren a pat on the back, and telling ferrari, "thats what you should have done with the technology"
Mart
Asl long as hamilton wins, the rest can go drive round racetracks
Mart
so Alonso go's, to X, Hamilton to Y () button to Z.. etc, and the roundabout goes on and on and on...
lets face it every year, theres a xxxxxxx (insert team name) scandal...if it aint the red team, its some other team shouting impropriaty
if anything the FIA should give Mclaren a pat on the back, and telling ferrari, "thats what you should have done with the technology"
Mart
Asl long as hamilton wins, the rest can go drive round racetracks
Mart
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McLaren are, IMO going to get a hefty penalty however - as a mimimum a big fine and points being deducted.
It could mean either Kimi or Massa will be world champion this season.
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The same newpaper source that makes the Torro Rosso claim is the one which reports the contents of the email, so maybe both claims are not credible!
McLaren are, IMO going to get a hefty penalty however - as a mimimum a big fine and points being deducted.
It could mean either Kimi or Massa will be world champion this season.
McLaren are, IMO going to get a hefty penalty however - as a mimimum a big fine and points being deducted.
It could mean either Kimi or Massa will be world champion this season.
As a long time follower of F1 I can't help but feel that this is an FIA witch hunt to get Ron Dennis out of the sport which despite the fact I have little time for him myself is not fair or right. I have no doubt that some skullduggery has gone on here, but it is almost impossible to prove to what level, if at all, McLaren have used the Ferrari documents.
Even though some are claiming that it is the reason this year's McLaren is so fast that is compelte tosh as this year's cars were designed last year well before McLaren even had thse documents. They could well have used some of the information to tune the car's perfroamnce/set-up but in truth I think it unlikely.
At the end of the day mart is right and it is the paying customer that is once again suffering here.
Still at least it's not Schuey's fault this time
#13
I sincerely hope that this year's championship is not affected whatever the outcome.
It would ruin it for us all and there would be no interest left for the rest of this season.
Les
It would ruin it for us all and there would be no interest left for the rest of this season.
Les
#14
Sounds like the same sort of witch-hunt journalism that l'equipe use whenever the leader of the tour de france is not french.
Maybe for their next story they might want to look at the legality of the ground-effect produced by the current Ferarri's wheels. Oh, sorry - they're only for cooling the brakes.... Yeah right!
Maybe for their next story they might want to look at the legality of the ground-effect produced by the current Ferarri's wheels. Oh, sorry - they're only for cooling the brakes.... Yeah right!
#15
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Seems pretty clear to me that Ferr..... I mean the FIA are going to crucify Mclaren. Think I read somewhere this morning that Ron is talking about pulling the team out of F1, which would be a real shame; that's if he has the power to do that?
However whilst Ferr...sorry, I mean the FIA continue on this witch hunt, it might be the nuclear option that gets somebody to bang a few heads together and stop this charade.
F1 2008 without Mclaren won't be worth watching IMO.
However whilst Ferr...sorry, I mean the FIA continue on this witch hunt, it might be the nuclear option that gets somebody to bang a few heads together and stop this charade.
F1 2008 without Mclaren won't be worth watching IMO.
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Yawn at the Ferr..FIA comments, can't you at least come up with something orginal
The fact remains that the full specification of the F2007 and the various working practices surrounding the Ferrari F1 team were in McLaren's possession or are you going to suggest they were planted. Actually you probably are
The problem for me has been the bungled way in which the FIA and associated bodies have handled the whole case. Once again there is little logic to the way verdicts are reached and the associated penalties are handed out.
The latter is what smacks of a witch hunt to me. Nothing to do with Ferrari, far more to do with Max Mosley and Ron Dennis.
The fact remains that the full specification of the F2007 and the various working practices surrounding the Ferrari F1 team were in McLaren's possession or are you going to suggest they were planted. Actually you probably are
The problem for me has been the bungled way in which the FIA and associated bodies have handled the whole case. Once again there is little logic to the way verdicts are reached and the associated penalties are handed out.
The latter is what smacks of a witch hunt to me. Nothing to do with Ferrari, far more to do with Max Mosley and Ron Dennis.
#17
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And I'd agree with the yawn comment, because I for one, am tired of the ever so biased FIA-Ferrari relationship.
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As I said yawn. What a load of BS, but you carry on believing it if it makes you happy
#19
"Your colleague told you he had stolen a biro from work - you are guilty and going down for 10 years as well".
#20
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Let's spell it out in plain English. Coughlan is the chief designer of an F1 team. The full documentation of another team's car is in his possession. It is a clear case of intellectual property being in the hands of someone it shouldn't be. This has already been found to be the case by the FIA in the first hearing just in case you missed that.
The argument now centres round whether McLaren benefited from this information and it is here that I feel the FIA are on dodgy ground and the whole witch hunt thing comes into play.
Look at it this way if a software company stole a rival software company's code and used it in their own product they would be prosecuted, but it is unlikely that would be the case if they stole a biro
#22
Biros???? What a ludicrous parallel.
Let's spell it out in plain English. Coughlan is the chief designer of an F1 team. The full documentation of another team's car is in his possession. It is a clear case of intellectual property being in the hands of someone it shouldn't be. This has already been found to be the case by the FIA in the first hearing just in case you missed that.
Let's spell it out in plain English. Coughlan is the chief designer of an F1 team. The full documentation of another team's car is in his possession. It is a clear case of intellectual property being in the hands of someone it shouldn't be. This has already been found to be the case by the FIA in the first hearing just in case you missed that.
Originally Posted by f1_fan
The argument now centres round whether McLaren benefited from this information and it is here that I feel the FIA are on dodgy ground
Last edited by Miniman; 10 September 2007 at 03:24 PM.
#23
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Disallowing Mclaren to take part the next 2 years is stupid, and does nothing for F1, taking points from either of their drivers does nothing for F1 either.
Ferrari should have taken more care over their confidential data, end of story.
Ferrari should have taken more care over their confidential data, end of story.
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Ferrari could never have foreseen that one of their employees, Nigel Stepney, would have given it to McLaren could they?
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No the argument is that having imposed no penalty first time round the FIA now seek to haul them back in front of the WMSC for another go as they have 'further evidence'. The point is I and others fail to see that they can ever prove McLaren have used the documents to their advantage which was why they escaped punishmnet first time round and this is what to me is making this look like a witch hunt.
I do not see any contradiction in my posts which are all fairly level headed and neutral, maybe you should have another read.
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Frank Williams has actually said this kind of things is happening all the time and is part of F1. It has all come to light as Ferrari aren't as dominant as they would like so they are looking at other ways of winning. Ferrari don't like losing. It wouldnt surprise me if it wasnt a setup, and a company with as much money as Ferrari could "find" someone quite easily to plant things.
It was only a few years when M Schumacher was looking all over a rivals car that had beaten him (was that mclaren?), nothing was done about that.
Although the document was found, there is no reason to use any of the data as these teams employ highly skilled engineers/technicians. They can get footage of their rivals cars and see things on them that may help, and like previously said the cars were designed last year so were they planning on using the info for next year and take a step back?
It was only a few years when M Schumacher was looking all over a rivals car that had beaten him (was that mclaren?), nothing was done about that.
Although the document was found, there is no reason to use any of the data as these teams employ highly skilled engineers/technicians. They can get footage of their rivals cars and see things on them that may help, and like previously said the cars were designed last year so were they planning on using the info for next year and take a step back?
#28
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I do actually prefer watching the run up to the races rather than the races themselves at the moment. Much more interesting.
Obviously the practice and race to watch will be the one after the next hearing. Even more so if the grid is two cars down. However the action on the track will be dull and of no interest whatsoever, with two red cars out front, and no championship to speak of anymore.
Obviously the practice and race to watch will be the one after the next hearing. Even more so if the grid is two cars down. However the action on the track will be dull and of no interest whatsoever, with two red cars out front, and no championship to speak of anymore.
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But do they? The journalist who brought the alleged e-mails into the publice domain has now admitted that the content of those e-mails was down to his interpretation rather than what either Alonso or De La Rosa actually said.
#30
Thank you, I realise I know nothing and need it all explaining to me :-)
Thank you again - clearly no one knows more than you and I will go re-read and make sure I contact you before any more discussion on my part about this whole sorry affair that McLaren instigated.
Originally Posted by f1_fan
maybe you should have another read.