paulr

Hi,

I do the 4 on 4 off shift system which is 2 days,2 nights then 4 days off. My company want to change it to 4 days, 4 off ,4 nights , 4 off and so on. Everyone is against it. I contacted the HSE and they sent me this statement (amongst other stuff)

In the UK, there is no specific health & safety legislation on shift
working. Nevertheless employers have general health & safety
responsibilities (e.g. a duty of care in law) for their employees (and
others) . This duty includes removing or controlling the risks of fatigue
by properly organising and planning shift-working arrangements. Their
broader responsibility for the health and safety of others (e.g. the
public) that might be affected by their work activities provides another
reason why it is important to control fatigue.

That could be interpreted in such a way to say that making us do 4 nights in a row is not "controlling the risk of fatigue" meaning the proposed shift change is illegal. Would that stick do you think, any opinions?

renny

iTrader: (2)

Are these 12hr shifts ?

paulr

Yes.

gazza-uk

the change sounds better to me.

hrness

i would think if these shifts were not acceptable in law, inc h/s it would have been highlighted before now. so many industries now use this pattern, i think it would not stand up as an argument imo.

Petem95

The shift workers in my firm do this kind of shift. They seem to like it, and it's quite a common shift rota pattern the 4-on 4-off one!

paulr

But is it 4 days and 4 nights or 2 days,2 nights etc?

paulr

Its not the 4 on 4 off, its the way they deal with the nights and days. Maybe no-one has challenged it before.

paulr

How do you come to that conclusion?

gazza-uk

I wouldent personally like to do 2 days and 2 nights, as this ***** your sleeping pattern.

Would much prefer the 4 days on 4 days off 4 nights on method.

no brainer.

Simon C

Never had a problem working the 2 days 2 nights. Once every 6 - 8 weeks I'd sleep for 15 hours on change over.


Did a fair few 16 - 18 hour shifts too when my replacement didn't show.


I bloody loved it

PaulC72

IMHO I actually think you are better off working 4 nights in a row than 2 days and then 2 nights as the body synchronises and gets used to the regulat shifts, having worked nights and then switched to day and doing odd nights etc I always felt like I didn't know where I was coming or going when flitting around but when it settled into a regular pattern ie a week on nights then a week on days etc it felt alot easier and less tiring.

However how it stand legally I have no idea but I would imagine the stand would be they are managing fatigue with regular breaks and the 4 on and off system, if you don't go home and sleep it is beyond their control.

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

I don't know that would be illegal, as the nightshift workers at my place work Monday through to Friday on nights, then only have Saturady and Sunday off before it all starts again.

Admittedly, I wouldn't like those shifts, but I doubt they are illegal.

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

Lightweight try 14 hour days for size I used to take 2 lots of clothes to work I sweated so much.

danfranklin1

To me the new shift sounds a lot better. I do 12-hour shifts, two weeks days, two nights - typical shift monday / tuesday days, two off, friday sat, sun, two off, weds / thurs, then monday / tuesday nights. Days are fine... it's the night shifts that mess up your body. Doing two on/ two off / two on has always screwed up my sleep patterns- I'd prefer to do, say, four or five nights in a row (after the first two I'd be in the zone and be able to sleep soundly in the daytime) then back to days, rather than a useless two nights off inbetween.

As far as health and safety - every year my company sends me my 'night worker health questionnaire' - basically, 'do you suffer from...' and I don't have anything physically wrong with me, so there's no reason I can't do nightshifts as far as the company is concerned. Apparently exhaustion and having to do a 60 mile a day motorway commute whilst practically falling asleep isn't covered by health and safety. One of the reasons I bought the Scoob is it keeps me alert on the way home in the mornings.

gazza-uk

more like get you home quicker

Maz

iTrader: (34)

My late father did twelve hour night shifts for five days a week for ovey thirty years. On occasions he would also do some 'overtime' on a Sunday.

Petem95

It's constant nights, so 4 nights, then 4 days off, then 4 nights.

One of my mates works a 4 nights, 4 days off, then 4 days pattern and he seems to like that.

As Gazza says surely thats much better than 2 nights followed by 2 days?! I would hate that!

I think its a case of what you are used to really.

Edit: 12 hour shifts in all above cases

Jamie

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Maybe he was old fashioned but he never moaned. It was back breaking work too with lots of heavy lifting. Such a shame he died a year before he was due to retire.

Ps this is not an attack on the OP BTW.

oobster

Working Time Regulations MAY be applicable - have a read at the link below for more info.

Your guide to the Working Time Regulations: sections 1 - 4 - BERR

Odds on

I would have thought that working 4 nights would be safer as (mentioned) your body clock would have adjusted. You'd be safer on the last 2 nights.

Unless you burn the candle at both ends that is....

Ringpeas

The main problem with long stretches of night shifts is when you can't get enough sleep in the day. In the summer when it is bright, hot and noisy outside, or if you have children, it can be a real problem. This can accumulate over a few days until you can't function properly.
I work continental rotating 8 hour shifts. 7 on one off, 7 on one off, 7 on then a week off. You are permanently tired, short tempered and your social life dries up.
I have been doing them for 10 years now

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

when i left college the first full time job i got was working as a nightsorter for a company who deliver littlewoods catalogues/parcels on sun-thurs night shifts.

did that for 18 months and was made redundant. i enjoyed working nights as it was the same hours every week.
my next (and current job), i started was mon-fri 6-2 2-10. now i hated 6-2 as i couldnt fall asleep ealier enough the previous night and would clock watch/wake up every 30 mins. so finished at 2pm and was arseholed for the rest of the day.
2-10pm was a p.i.t.a. too, as i would get too much sleep, and make nothing of the day before/after work.
i requested a shift swap to go onto sun-thurs nights. that was 2.5 years ago and havent looked back.
sometimes sleeping is a pain, but i can split sleep. say i get 5 good hours when getting home from work, il get up, then get 2 more good hours before work.

jobs crap, but ive always been nocturnal and fascinated by working night shifts. the dj in me probably

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I used to work the "continental shift" pattern: mon, tue mornings, 7-3, wed, thur afters, 3-11, fri, sat, sun nights, 11-7, mon, tue off. Then it was wed, thur mornings, fri, sat, sun afters, mon, tue nights, wed thur off.

So we got one long weekend in four, but it was a ball-ache changing shifts so often, your body clock got well messed up.

Then I went on the steelworks, where we did a week of nights at a time. Much better.

Alcazar

michaelro

Hospital staff do this all the time (ie Several nights in a row)
So not sure you have a case?

What is the proposed day off pattern in relation to nights?
Do you get 4 full day's off in between or is the morning you finish after 4 nights a day off?

On average you're likely to do an extra night a month - I'd prefer the new system myself.

T5OLF

iTrader: (4)

I did 2 days 2 nights 4 off for neally 3 years, it was ok for the first few months but after that I was always shattered, I had to get up at 04:30 to be in Leeds for 7am and did not get home till 9pm when on days.

The change over from days to nights was hard as I would be up at 8am because I could not sleep in. I would set off to Leeds at 5pm work a 12 hour night shift (if you can call rebooting servers and IT stuff work) and then drive home so I would be awake for around 26 hours before going to bed......and do it again that night.

I would rather do 4 days 4 nights but we never had the choice. I now work 9 till 4.30 Mon-fri and would never go back to doing shifts. They slowly kill you and you are always shattered even on your 4 days off.....never again.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

agree with this 100%. thats why working 10pm-6am permanent nights is good for me. only the odd 12 hour shift thrown in for overtime. regular sleeping pattern = less tired...

T5OLF

iTrader: (4)

Regular hours are the best way to go, 2 days 2 nights shift patterns just screw you up. We still do the odd long shift - I did 36 hours without a break the other week just watching scripts run. It was not that bad as I am not knackered all the time like I was on shift.

stormyuklondon1

I do 2 days, 2 nights, 5 off, 2 days, 3 nights, 4 off, 3 days 2 nights 5 off. 12 hour shifts 7 till 7. worst thing about it is finishing on a night and starting on a day shift does lose you half a day, but having worked shifts for 7 years, i wouldn't want to go back to 8 hour shifts. 4 days ,4 off then 4 nights sounds quite a nice pattern to me