For those of you planning to emigrate (Spain particularly)
07 February 2008, 10:31 AM
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For those of you planning to emigrate (Spain particularly)
Here's a detailed article about the disasters happening to Brits in Spain recently:
Paul Hamilos reports on the nightmare that Britons who moved to Spain now face | Special reports | Guardian Unlimited
But more generally, I thought this was a nice observation that could apply to a lot of disenchanted Scoobynetters going to many countries:
Paul Hamilos reports on the nightmare that Britons who moved to Spain now face | Special reports | Guardian Unlimited
But more generally, I thought this was a nice observation that could apply to a lot of disenchanted Scoobynetters going to many countries:
Part of the reason for this is the way British people envisage life in Spain, says O'Reilly. "They want this natural rural idyll, this idea of a past, romantic community that doesn't exist in Spain any more than it does in Britain." When they are later confronted with legal problems, they don't want to face up to them. "If they get involved in politics, or take part in the economy, start registering themselves or are forced to learn about dealing with all the bureaucracy, they lose that romantic idea of why they moved to Spain. In order to challenge the problems they have been presented with, they have to face up to the 21st century, and they don't want that."
This is evident from the way that Britons have attempted to overcome their legal problems. When it is suggested that those living in illegal houses in Catral should club together to organise court action, social divisions become apparent. One refuses to get involved because "some people are more illegal than us, so we don't want to all be lumped in together". O'Reilly argues that class plays a part in this. One of the key reasons many Britons move to Spain is that they no longer recognise the UK as the country they grew up in. But when they move to live in a British community in Spain, they find that the same problems exist: "There's a mixture of working-class families and retired middle management. They wanted to escape Britain and they find themselves in this British community that they don't particularly want to be part of, especially when they realise that they are not the kind of Brits they like."
This is evident from the way that Britons have attempted to overcome their legal problems. When it is suggested that those living in illegal houses in Catral should club together to organise court action, social divisions become apparent. One refuses to get involved because "some people are more illegal than us, so we don't want to all be lumped in together". O'Reilly argues that class plays a part in this. One of the key reasons many Britons move to Spain is that they no longer recognise the UK as the country they grew up in. But when they move to live in a British community in Spain, they find that the same problems exist: "There's a mixture of working-class families and retired middle management. They wanted to escape Britain and they find themselves in this British community that they don't particularly want to be part of, especially when they realise that they are not the kind of Brits they like."
07 February 2008, 11:54 AM
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It's big problem for people who don't do their home work. Getting fished in by builders who happily build illegally (and its rife), and their own estate agents that refer you to their own legal bods - who neglect to advise the buyer about the financial suicide they are about to commit. And even if it is legal; many pay too much, for what is a mass of over-produced, badly built tiny ugly little boxes - which will never increase in value due to market saturation.
And to cap it off, people who move there think they can earn as much income in Spain as in the UK. False dreams.
That combined with the problem being that they end up moving into "little Englands" full of the same people they are trying to get away from
(Well, I find it funny - bloomin' feejits 
)
All these problems suffered by expats is due to their own shortsighted ignorance/stupidity.
The exception is the Land Grabs laws, and that is the only real problem that affects poeple from any background. That isolated (and legal) little finca in the middle of the campo sounds idillic to some. ...until a builder decides to build a golfing resort on it. And due to the blatent corruption in local government, it leave little option for people affected.
Mind, I say local government is corrupt in Spain, but after seeing some of the monstrosities get planning permission for being buily in the most unsuitable of locations back in the UK by "influential" builders. Its just as bad here...just not as obvious (governmental backscratchers
)
I wonder if the compensation for people who are getting for having their property reclaimed and businesses damaged by the building for the 2012 olympics is fair in their eyes? Maybe its not as bad as Land Grab, but its on the same lines on how if effects innocent individuals who have little control over the matter.
Pressure is on to change it though, which is progress - certainly something that will never happen in China (re: Land grabs for the 2008 Olympics)...Protest there and you get locked up in a prison "hotel"
And to cap it off, people who move there think they can earn as much income in Spain as in the UK. False dreams.
That combined with the problem being that they end up moving into "little Englands" full of the same people they are trying to get away from
(Well, I find it funny - bloomin' feejits )All these problems suffered by expats is due to their own shortsighted ignorance/stupidity.
The exception is the Land Grabs laws, and that is the only real problem that affects poeple from any background. That isolated (and legal) little finca in the middle of the campo sounds idillic to some. ...until a builder decides to build a golfing resort on it. And due to the blatent corruption in local government, it leave little option for people affected.
Mind, I say local government is corrupt in Spain, but after seeing some of the monstrosities get planning permission for being buily in the most unsuitable of locations back in the UK by "influential" builders. Its just as bad here...just not as obvious (governmental backscratchers
)I wonder if the compensation for people who are getting for having their property reclaimed and businesses damaged by the building for the 2012 olympics is fair in their eyes? Maybe its not as bad as Land Grab, but its on the same lines on how if effects innocent individuals who have little control over the matter.
Pressure is on to change it though, which is progress - certainly something that will never happen in China (re: Land grabs for the 2008 Olympics)...Protest there and you get locked up in a prison "hotel"
07 February 2008, 04:14 PM
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LRAU aside, some of these people do deserve sympathy because they've been caught up in a problem not of their own making even after their abogado has completed due diligence and you need look no further than Marbella to understand the problem.
Having said that the whole LRAU battle is now being dealt with by the European Court of Human Rights and I'd imagine that will be settled within a few years, although unfortunately people's homes will get destroyed in the process.
Regarding the 'grass is always greener' syndrome, where do you think the term 'whingeing Poms' originated? Exactly these types of people who moan consistently about how bad the UK is, emigrate, set up mini-ghettos in Oz and then whinge furiously about the climate, flies, locals etc.
Having said that the whole LRAU battle is now being dealt with by the European Court of Human Rights and I'd imagine that will be settled within a few years, although unfortunately people's homes will get destroyed in the process.
Regarding the 'grass is always greener' syndrome, where do you think the term 'whingeing Poms' originated? Exactly these types of people who moan consistently about how bad the UK is, emigrate, set up mini-ghettos in Oz and then whinge furiously about the climate, flies, locals etc.
07 February 2008, 04:28 PM
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I have looked into the possibilty of purchasing property in Spain, more so the Costa Del Sol, mainly because of flight times from Glasgow. I dont want to move there full time i just want a holiday home that i can jump on the plane, be there in a couple of hours, spend a few days there living the holiday dream & then jump back on a plane & head "home".
Thats all thats in it for me. I couldnt leave Scotland as it love it too much
Thats all thats in it for me. I couldnt leave Scotland as it love it too much
07 February 2008, 04:32 PM
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Some good points there by Brendan and it's also worth pointing out there are 'little Germany's', 'little Hollands', Denmarks...and so on here as well. To be honest, the German communities are no better than the English. Just last night I was in a restaurant with my wife and the waitress said at the end (In spanish) "thank you for speaking Spanish to me" (as I had been all night) . I thought 'WTF, it's Spain' but the other tables were occupied by Germans who wouldn't even dare try the local lingo.
Back to the original point though. There are two types of stupid expats here...those who don't do they homework and possibly come over because it's cheap to live and the sun always shines, and those who really think Spain is an extension of the UK and their skills etc are transferable. It's not. It's often corrupt, it's a tough place to live and socialise even if you can speak some Spanish and you have to work bloody hard to make a living.
My circumstances are a little odd. We came over and bought a house for cash and left enough in the bank to support us for 2 years if we needed it. We've never touched that and my business has gone from strength to strength to the point I now employ locals. But the cost is that I work 7 days a week, often in extremely hot temperatures in a very bureaucratic environment. I pay (and always have) all my taxes, and even declare UK dividends here which I could probably even get away with. Most Brits here don't even register for tax. Some even still claim UK social security! It's true, there are some real scum here who won't ever truly be able to say they've contributed to society, but then I don't know if they would wherever they lived.
The problem with the British expats is that they more often or not are running or hiding from something in the UK...crap housing, crap job, failed business, failed marriage etc. In 2 and a half years I've made maybe 2 good UK expat friends here. I've made at least half a dozen foreign friends though. Little Britain...trust me, it really starts to niggle after a while...
P.S Brendan..when are you heading this way...next couple of weeks isn't it? PM me if you need any tips!
Back to the original point though. There are two types of stupid expats here...those who don't do they homework and possibly come over because it's cheap to live and the sun always shines, and those who really think Spain is an extension of the UK and their skills etc are transferable. It's not. It's often corrupt, it's a tough place to live and socialise even if you can speak some Spanish and you have to work bloody hard to make a living.
My circumstances are a little odd. We came over and bought a house for cash and left enough in the bank to support us for 2 years if we needed it. We've never touched that and my business has gone from strength to strength to the point I now employ locals. But the cost is that I work 7 days a week, often in extremely hot temperatures in a very bureaucratic environment. I pay (and always have) all my taxes, and even declare UK dividends here which I could probably even get away with. Most Brits here don't even register for tax. Some even still claim UK social security! It's true, there are some real scum here who won't ever truly be able to say they've contributed to society, but then I don't know if they would wherever they lived.
The problem with the British expats is that they more often or not are running or hiding from something in the UK...crap housing, crap job, failed business, failed marriage etc. In 2 and a half years I've made maybe 2 good UK expat friends here. I've made at least half a dozen foreign friends though. Little Britain...trust me, it really starts to niggle after a while...
P.S Brendan..when are you heading this way...next couple of weeks isn't it? PM me if you need any tips!
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07 February 2008, 04:38 PM
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Disenchanted with the UK Scoobynetter here, but won't be going to Spain and your observation, IMHO, won't apply to me in my circumstance or the country I'll be going to.
07 February 2008, 05:01 PM
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Their misfortune gave me a good laugh at least.
"Never give a sucker an even break"
In another life I like to think I'd have been parting those fools from their money like the British developers mentioned in the article.
"Never give a sucker an even break"
In another life I like to think I'd have been parting those fools from their money like the British developers mentioned in the article.
07 February 2008, 05:22 PM
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[QUOTE=Shark Man;7632966]
That combined with the problem being that they end up moving into "little Englands" full of the same people they are trying to get away from (Well, I find it funny - bloomin' feejits )
[QUOTE]
That combined with the problem being that they end up moving into "little Englands" full of the same people they are trying to get away from
(Well, I find it funny - bloomin' feejits )[QUOTE]
07 February 2008, 06:31 PM
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07 February 2008, 07:56 PM
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Some good points there by Brendan and it's also worth pointing out there are 'little Germany's', 'little Hollands', Denmarks...and so on here as well. To be honest, the German communities are no better than the English. Just last night I was in a restaurant with my wife and the waitress said at the end (In spanish) "thank you for speaking Spanish to me" (as I had been all night) . I thought 'WTF, it's Spain' but the other tables were occupied by Germans who wouldn't even dare try the local lingo.
Back to the original point though. There are two types of stupid expats here...those who don't do they homework and possibly come over because it's cheap to live and the sun always shines, and those who really think Spain is an extension of the UK and their skills etc are transferable. It's not. It's often corrupt, it's a tough place to live and socialise even if you can speak some Spanish and you have to work bloody hard to make a living.
My circumstances are a little odd. We came over and bought a house for cash and left enough in the bank to support us for 2 years if we needed it. We've never touched that and my business has gone from strength to strength to the point I now employ locals. But the cost is that I work 7 days a week, often in extremely hot temperatures in a very bureaucratic environment. I pay (and always have) all my taxes, and even declare UK dividends here which I could probably even get away with. Most Brits here don't even register for tax. Some even still claim UK social security! It's true, there are some real scum here who won't ever truly be able to say they've contributed to society, but then I don't know if they would wherever they lived.
The problem with the British expats is that they more often or not are running or hiding from something in the UK...crap housing, crap job, failed business, failed marriage etc. In 2 and a half years I've made maybe 2 good UK expat friends here. I've made at least half a dozen foreign friends though. Little Britain...trust me, it really starts to niggle after a while...
P.S Brendan..when are you heading this way...next couple of weeks isn't it? PM me if you need any tips!
Back to the original point though. There are two types of stupid expats here...those who don't do they homework and possibly come over because it's cheap to live and the sun always shines, and those who really think Spain is an extension of the UK and their skills etc are transferable. It's not. It's often corrupt, it's a tough place to live and socialise even if you can speak some Spanish and you have to work bloody hard to make a living.
My circumstances are a little odd. We came over and bought a house for cash and left enough in the bank to support us for 2 years if we needed it. We've never touched that and my business has gone from strength to strength to the point I now employ locals. But the cost is that I work 7 days a week, often in extremely hot temperatures in a very bureaucratic environment. I pay (and always have) all my taxes, and even declare UK dividends here which I could probably even get away with. Most Brits here don't even register for tax. Some even still claim UK social security! It's true, there are some real scum here who won't ever truly be able to say they've contributed to society, but then I don't know if they would wherever they lived.
The problem with the British expats is that they more often or not are running or hiding from something in the UK...crap housing, crap job, failed business, failed marriage etc. In 2 and a half years I've made maybe 2 good UK expat friends here. I've made at least half a dozen foreign friends though. Little Britain...trust me, it really starts to niggle after a while...
P.S Brendan..when are you heading this way...next couple of weeks isn't it? PM me if you need any tips!
I can't even begin to describe how infuriated I feel when ex pats force locals to speak another language. If it was my bar/shop/restaurant, I'd kick them out.
Making a legitimate living is tough, even speaking very fluent Spanish, as a friend of mine has learnt. He's been there for best part of 7 years, in the building trade (which is quite lucrative - obviously in current climates). He does everything by the book, and he is hard working and a good person to work with. But the money he is left with is no better than back in the UK....its still a struggle to make ends meet. He's going back to the UK later this year, but I reckon he'll be back in Spain sooner rather than later, when the UK grinds him down (again).
Last edited by Shark Man; 07 February 2008 at 08:00 PM.
07 February 2008, 08:21 PM
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First week of March. We have accomm booked in a tiny village between S Nevada and Granada, as recommended by a Spanish friend who should be staying there this week. The only two things I haven't really sorted are a snowsuit for the two-year-old and snowchains for my car. Was advised today to get tickets to Alhambra in advance on internet if I don't want to queue from 6am. I think that's about it really.......watch your pMs the day before I arrive though, I'm sure I'll miss something
08 February 2008, 08:24 AM
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It's true, there are some real scum here who won't ever truly be able to say they've contributed to society, but then I don't know if they would wherever they lived.
The problem with the British expats is that they more often or not are running or hiding from something in the UK...crap housing, crap job, failed business, failed marriage etc.
The problem with the British expats is that they more often or not are running or hiding from something in the UK...crap housing, crap job, failed business, failed marriage etc.
08 February 2008, 08:40 AM
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You only have to drive round a English infested town to see what the issue is...loads of UK registered cars....Most are permanentally used in Spain and also not taxed, ITV'd nor registered correctly and therefore illegal. Whats the excuse? They don't "understand" the system?
08 February 2008, 10:07 AM
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I spent the last 14 months living and working in Thailand, and it's no different there. More often than not I found myself socialising with the locals rather than 'my own kind'
Even amongst those actually working over there (as opposed to the 'tourists' or retirees), I was amazed by the number of long term expats who were actually proud of the fact that not learned one word of the language
To be fair it wasn't just the British
I encountered a few Dutch, Germans and French who were just as arrogantly obnoxious. And don't get me started on the Yanks
Even amongst those actually working over there (as opposed to the 'tourists' or retirees), I was amazed by the number of long term expats who were actually proud of the fact that not learned one word of the language
To be fair it wasn't just the British
I encountered a few Dutch, Germans and French who were just as arrogantly obnoxious. And don't get me started on the Yanks
08 February 2008, 11:36 AM
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You only have to drive round a English infested town to see what the issue is...loads of UK registered cars....Most are permanentally used in Spain and also not taxed, ITV'd nor registered correctly and therefore illegal. Whats the excuse? They don't "understand" the system?
As others have said, its not restricted to the Brits though. Just check out She' Bu in London to see how many Aussies congregate there.
09 February 2008, 09:30 AM
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Regarding the 'grass is always greener' syndrome, where do you think the term 'whingeing Poms' originated? Exactly these types of people who moan consistently about how bad the UK is, emigrate, set up mini-ghettos in Oz and then whinge furiously about the climate, flies, locals etc.
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