Turbo2

When our first child was born my wife's and my combined income were over the threshold to claim this credit, so we obviously did not apply. However, since her maternity leave ended several months later and she left her employer, the loss of her income brought us well below the threshold.

However, I forgot all about the CTC scheme until recently and never applied. 2 years have now passed for which I was eligible and we now also have a second child. I made my first application to HMRC a couple of months ago and included exact details and a letter explaining that I also wished to claim the as yet unpaid CTC for which I was entitled from mid 2006 onwards.

Surprise, surprise, when the paperwork came back they had only back-dated it 3 months to Jan 2008. I phoned them for an explanation and the response from the lady at HMRC was as if I was from another planet. She had never ever heard of anyone claiming back more than the backdated 3 months that they had now paid out to me. Now it is clearly my fault that I didn't apply in mid-2006, but I ain't no tax expert and don't spend all my spare time monitoring Labour's ever-changing Tax system but I am sure that in this country of 65 million people this must situation must have arisen before. Anyway, she said she would seek further management advice and get back to me. I'm not trying anything on and have provided all the necessary data that they require to back up my claim.

Nearly 2 months have now passed without any response from HMRC.

Are they legally allowed to withold this total 4 figure sum of money from me for monthly payments that I have been entitled to claim for 18 months? Are they taking the p*ss or is it just a case that no-one at HMRC can be bothered to process the claim?

Any advice welcome.

PeteBrant

Benefits for families and children


Looks like they can, and will not back date past 3 months before your application

Turbo2

Terrific
That's outrageous.

NotoriousREV

The same applies to unemployment benefit and other stuff as well. Claim it or lose out.

Gordo

I still don't understand why people are financially supported to have children - if you can't afford them, you shouldn't have them rather than be a cost to everyone else?

I'm not saying you can't afford to have kids - just that I don't agree with the concept of the tax is all - fair play to you for trying to claim it.

Gordo

Windsor

The state paying for you to procreate in an already over-crowded world is also outrageous, but there we go.

MJW

Ah but when the children become adults they can then be taxed to death and the money recouped many times over.

PeteBrant

Because if you want your pension that you are paying into, then you better hope that lots of people have kids and plenty of them.


Also, the fundamental purpose of life, that is, to procreate, should not necessarily be limited by how much you earn.

Turbo2

No, it's the other way round: I'm not a employee of the state. I've been paying the state too much tax haven't I? Now they won't give it back to me.

I wonder if they'll mind it if I default on my Income Tax a bit to even things up? Maybe I'll do that for 18 months and then only backdate my payments to them for the last 3 months when they come looking. See how they like it!

FlightMan

Good idea. Let's withdraw all state benefits associated with rasiing children. Then after a couple of decades, when the numbers of adults working age has dropped through the floor, we can get immigrants in from Eastern Europe to plug the gap in the labour market, and pay tax to fund your pension.

We'd all welcome that. Wouldn't we?

eClaire

You have to take some degree of responsibility when it comes to things like this; how were they to know your circumstances have changed? You don't honestly believe you can rely on HMRC to tell you if they're due you money, do you?

Imagine how much HMRC would be paying out if they wrote to everyone who's cirumstances change. For each tax year they take into account people who don't claim. There must be a phenomenal amount of money owed that's not being claimed. They don't advertise it much either.

3 months worth of tax credits and now you're getting the weekly/monthly sum you're entitled to on top of your salary; better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick I'd say

eClaire

PS. They do take AAAAAAAAGES to get anywhere unless you call them every day and keep pestering them. Just keep at it

Good luck!!

scoobyboy

they are worse than useless we haven't had a penny from them since our lad was born 5 years ago, they said they overpaid us £2500 and are now claiming it back yet the funny thing is they can't seem to agree on a figure of what we owe them it changes every time we ring up. plus we even have a letter admitting it was their fault which means you don't have to pay it back but they conveniently seem to lose every copy we send them.

i hate them with a passion.

The Dogs B******s

Its not about affording to have kids,they pay it so people can go back to work and pay them a bit of tax every week,if we didn't get it we couldn't afford to pay nusery fee's(as we've got twins,so double the money)so the wife would have to stay home and claim other benefits.Because what she earns every month is way under what the nursey fee's are.

Turbo2

I'm not saying that they had to contact me to make an application: I've already admitted it was my mistake by not applying as soon as I was eligible. All I'm saying is now that the application is in, just pay me what I'm owed. They've been sitting on the money for getting on for 2 years now, so can use the accrued interest as a "fee" if they like. Alternatively just add the owed money to my tax code for this (or next) year and they can repay me that way.

As for your second paragraph, I'm sorry but I can't help looking at it the other way: i.e. being cheated out of a 4 figure sum. If someone stole that sort of money from you, wouldn't you feel the same?

I'll contact Citizens' Advice and see if there is anything that can be done, but I think PeteBrant's post pretty much tells me where I stand. Let's hope they give my money to "Good causes" like an unclaimed lottery win!

Leslie

As a matter of interest, how do you feel about the old age pension as well. Our pensioners are just about the poorest supported in the whole of the Eu they say.

Do you think that those whose paid their national insurance and income tax for all those years should be entitled to a bit better then what they get? And why should credits depend on a means test anyway?

Les

scoob_babe

Same here as we have 3.5 month old twins. We have managed to get 10% discount off both monthly fees but it's still a heck of a lot of money. We won't qualify for tax credits when I go back to work either but if I stop work, we stand to lose a hell of a lot more all round.

Gordo

Haha - what a load of nonsense being posted here - and some wonderfully bigoted views about foreign workers.

Fact is, the world is already over-populated. It makes no sense for the state (i.e. my taxes) to be paying to allow others to procreate. So what if there aren't enough of working age in the future - they'll be more than made up by economic migrants coming into the country (and there's not much wrong with that IMO - they work harder than most of the lazy ******* here who want to live on state benefits!).

Since when is procreation a basic right??? If you can't afford kids then you shouldn't have them. You want kids then you should pay enough attention at school and earn enough to support yourselves.

Gordo

Windsor

Absolutely!

One small correction... I would argue it is a human right to breed, much like to breath, however it IS NOT a human right to expect others to pay for you to do so.

The problem is that many babymakers think it IS their right to demand money to support offspring that they should not have had in the first place.

In times gone by if you bred and couldn't support your child then it would starve, ensuring that only the best providers procreated successfully thereby furthering evolution of our species.

However, due to our keen sense of morals we now feel it is our duty to assist those children who have been bred by poor providers so that they don't suffer hardship. After all, it isn't the child's fault that its parents are substandard. Whilst this is a worthy thing to do unfortunately the poor providers now EXPECT the handouts and no longer factor their own ability to provide into the equation. In short, they are taking liberties.

To my mind, someone who deliberately chooses to have a child and then EXPECTS other people to contribute towards bringing it up is using that child's wellbeing to blackmail the state into paying up.

The original poster has had a first child and presumably has been able to bring it up for two years without these handouts and fair play to him for doing so. However, he has now had a second child, times are tight and all of a sudden he wants two years worth of handouts! This suggests to me that:

a) If he had genuinely needed the money for the first child he would have claimed it two years ago
b) They have got greedy and had a second child for which they cannot provide, times are tight and he is looking to the state (i.e. the taxpayer) to bail him out.

To the babymakers: You are playing with real lives here. You can't have a baby just because you feel 'broody', because your friends all have one or any other sentimental reasons IF you cannot provide for it. Assuming that the state will make up the deficit is playing with your baby's wellbeing or at best using your baby's wellbeing to extract money to which you should not morally be entitled.

Turbo2

Blimey, forget Bin Laden, I seem to have suddenly become Public Enemy Number 1 for requesting something I have been entitled to all along. Heaven forbid I might dare to do something really bad like 31mph in a 30mph zone!

How many S-Netters amongst us have children and qualify for CTC's? How many of that number don't claim because they think it is somehow wrong and unfair to do so, because other people don't have children? I expect this would be a very small proportion (if not 0%) of the total.

Unfortunately I didn't make up the rules by which our tax system is based, so I am sorry if I suddenly seem greedy for pointing out that I haven't received a sizeable chunk of money for which I am 100% entitled. We won't die of starvation or need to move house without it, but that's hardly the point is it? The CTC system isn't designed to help purely the low paid: I think it's for all parents with a combined wage of up to 66K or so, so some pretty well-off families are getting it. I just overlooked the fact that I was entitled to it, no-one needs to bail me out.

So Mr (or should that be HRH) Windsor, would you mind if the taxman suddenly deducted a grand or so off your next pay packet, for no justifiable reason? Probably, I would have thought (unless you are HRH!).

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

My take on this, nobody has "taken away" anything from you, you obviously don't need it that badly else you would have been claiming it already. However you are entitled to it, and good luck to you claiming it from now on.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Nobody has 'cheated' you out of anything here, you failed to claim the money.

Geez, take some responsibility for your own actions

Turbo2

OK. Rant over and time to move on!

Windsor

But as others have already said, no one has taken anything from you, you simply didn't claim it. You have brought up one child without it and you deserve applause for that. Why not do the same for the second child whereupon you can hop up here and join me on my noble steed.

Oh and by the way I am not HRH... technically I am only an Hon. but I don't bother with all that nonsense. About fourty people would have to shuffle off this mortal coil before I become HRH so you needn't worry there dear fellow!

PeteBrant

Since, ooh, about the dawn of time.

Who said anything about not being able to afford them. There is a system in place to help people out with raising thier kids. Given that the average wage in this country is £23,000 - I would say most people need the help - What are you suggesting, that only the rich should be able to have kids?

Besides, Don't like it? Tough, it's not changing.

eClaire

I hear what you're saying, it's guff knowing you were entitled to the money and aren't able to claim it. There's reason behind the '3 month rule' - you seem like an intelligent bloke, you don't need me to explain; as crap as it is, there are a large amount of people in the same boat as you. I don't think they're going to cough up any time soon. Perhaps when you fill out your annual review for the last tax year you may be able to recoup some of what you're due for 07/08? Maybe worth while asking them that.

Gordo

[QUOTE=PeteBrant;7951281]Who said anything about not being able to afford them. There is a system in place to help people out with raising thier kids. Given that the average wage in this country is £23,000 - I would say most people need the help - What are you suggesting, that only the rich should be able to have kids? QUOTE]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I don't see the logic in using taxes to fund spawn from poor people/chavs (delete as appropriate - pun intended).

The problem with the arrogant assertion that to being able to have kids is a fundamental right is the issue the whole human race is facing - over-crowding of the planet. It will lead to population collapse at some point - shame that as a species we're not bright enough to manage our own population as we do other species, and live within our resources (resources and finances).

Evolution has stopped in man precisely because socialist do-gooding policies are helping and indeed encouraging the weakest to survive. Soft liberal policies now are going to create real long term issues.

Gordo

zip106

Nacho?

lestippp

Well said Gordo

So few people seem able to foresee the trouble that we as a race are already in

Single working people should be getting tax credits not the other way around, we are the ones not only paying into the tax pot but getting sweet f**k all back and we exert no pressure on services, create less waste, etc, etc, etc

The world is already struggling to feed the population and when it is proposed to use GM crops the same a**holes who have a right to sponge off society are at the front of the cue screaming blue murder at the very thought. We are no longer part of nature but nature will end the human race.

So as far as tax credits go, don't have a big problem with a hard working couple getting a break to help bring up the kids, that's cool So Turbo2 take the credits you are getting but don't expect it to be back dated as that is just the way the system works.

It's when freeloading, **** scratching, knife weilding,low lifes get mymoney that I get annoyed
And as for PeteBrants comment about having loads of kids to shore up future pensions, what planet do live on man, every year the sub species Parasiticus Erectus grows in size and none of their offspring will ever work so will generate zero revenue for handouts or can't you work that out

I personally think you should have to prove that you are suitable to be a parent before being granted a licence to have them. If you are a lazy sod who does nothing for our species why should you have a right to have kids, they will just starve after birth without government aid or should we call it working peoples charity

I for one am sick of people saying they have the right, you should have to prove that you have the right by contributing

To the OP I think you are a decent chap, working hard to support your growing family, good on you and nothing wrong with you trying to claim what you have worked all your life to be entitled to Your problem is that you are a good guy and have suffered for not knowing the system. Now had you been low life scum you would be living virtually rent free with multiple hand outs to help you buy a playstation with, whilst neglecting your kids whose support money you use to buy beer with

I know who I'd rather be