340BHP-WRX

iTrader: (6)

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Many dead in Madrid plane crash

Over 100 people killed after plane crashed on take-off

Turbohot

It has been very confusing, quite shocking at times when BBC said that 7 were apparently dead, then they denied any fatalities but informed about 20 injured (based upon Reuters info at that time). Sky were ever talking different numbers of the injured and fatalities. Eventually, it seems like it is about 100 killed in this crash, Apparently a major crash at Madrid airport since 1983.

Horrendous.

There is a lot of speculation about how it happened. Soon things will become clearer.

Shark Man

Likely to be an aborted take-off. Reports are that an engine was on fireduring take off.

Why is the question, did it actually get airbourn or not?

How well do these DC9/MD80s fly on one engine. I know most twin-jets are ok, but I'm not sure with these old T-tails.

340BHP-WRX

iTrader: (6)

Apparently,the pilot aborted the first take-off attempt and returned to the stand where some kind of work was carried out on the plane.

It then attempted another take-off and crashed

BBC news are saying it could now be around 140 dead !

Flatcapdriver

Here we go. Ill informed armchair experts quoting dubious media reports queue up here and spout forth.

340BHP-WRX

iTrader: (6)

Who's doing that mate

I was just making people aware of what had happened that's all - If you have nothing valuable to add then don't bother !

Flatcapdriver

And what makes you think my comments were aimed at you? Unless, you're going to join the others who have/claim a tenuous link with commercial aviation and then spout crap about a subject they know little about in an attempt to make themselves knowledgeable?

340BHP-WRX

iTrader: (6)

Fair enough - just the way I read it I thought you were having a pop at me.

Official death toll is now 147

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

If it was going to happen anyway, somewhere, why couldn't Mr Glitter be on it.

Sheepsplitter

You see, this is absolute evidence that god does not exist!

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Glitter, spread over a wide area, see how nice it sounds....

Terrible crash though, we get complacent these days are its comparatively rare but it all comes back when this happens.

Iwan

+1, RIP to all who lost their lives.

Shark Man

Que?

I just repeated that it appears to be an aborted take off and asked how well do MD twinjets fly/ascend on one engine.

More of a question than an "armchair opinion"

Last time I checked, this wasn't PPRuNe (hardly inhabited by "experts" either). Don't like it? move along to another thread. Or enable remote desktop and I'll do it for you

Turbo2

I've got a completely uninformed leather office chair opinion if that helps? I don't think any fully laden twin engine airliner would successfully take-off if one of the engines failed at the point of take-off. In-flight is a different matter, but at take-off both engines are given the full beans by the pilot, so if you suddenly take 50% of that power away and add in any unbalancing caused, I fear you'll end up with a Madrid scenario every time. I'd be interested to know if the same would apply to a 3 or 4 engined airliner.

Dieseldog

You should be able to, Turbo2. The pilots perform a calculation of the power required, taking into account all the variables - runway length, air temperature, air pressure, wind direction/speed, aircraft weight, etc and the resultant power setting required for takeoff should be sufficient to carry the aircraft into the air following the loss of one engine after the V1 speed has been reached (before V1 they will reject the takeoff). The 'swing' of the aircraft following an engine failure should be less on an aircraft with the engines strapped to the fuselage, rather than out on the wing, too.

I haven't a clue what happened in this case and would just wait until the investigators report (just in case our resident pilot, FCD, jumps in to bollock me) - I'm just answering your query TH.

Turbo2

Thanks for that. I'm off to Norway next week using twin engined jets, so I can fly with a little more assurance now!

Leslie

Thats seems a pretty accurate representation according to what we know so far and what goes on during the planning and subsequently the take off stage. There are regulations of course for civil passenger aircraft with respect to take off and the initial climb out.

I doubt that even FCD will be able to jump about over that!

Les

Funkii Munkii

Worrying !!

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | 'Wing flaps failed' on Spain jet

davegtt

I didnt even hear anything about all this what bad news

Leslie

It is a worrying situation. If the pilots had selected take-off flap and it had not travelled as it should have, or moved away from the selection later, that is a very good reason for the crash. The flaps, usually leading and trailing edge flaps when selected to take off position will reduce the stalling speed of the aircraft without increasing the extra drag unduly. It is standard practice to do this and in fact it is never done practically to take off with the flaps selected up.

If they took off without take off flap, they could get the aircraft airborne initially but once it had left the ground effect then it was in great danger of stalling and crashing. The crash at Staines some years ago was stated to be due to the leading edge flaps being selected in too early in error. the aircraft's behaviour as described by a survivor after take off from Madrid would tie in with such a situation.

It is difficult to imagine that two pilots would forget to select those flaps during the pre take off checks. It is such an important and necessary check. the worry as stated above is if there was a system failure which allowed them to travel back in during or before takeoff.

Les

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

The crash at Staines some years ago was stated to be due to the leading edge flaps being selected in too early in error.


God I remember that one, we had not long moved to the area, and all I can remember is sirens and blues lights all night long as our new house backed onto the A4(Great West Road)