Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Guys,
Can you advise my wife on the following.
She has been in her present job for 22 years her contract states 40 hours per week Mon to Fri, Her employers now want to change it to say that she is to work 5 out of 7 days per week.
If she signs a new contract it will mean she will have to work some week ends, the new contract will start from march 9th 2009???
Where would she stand if she did not sign the new contract.
Cheers
Colin

Zeon

This maybe of help: Acas - Advice leaflet - Varying a contract of employment

It also maybe prudent to join a union.

jpor

iTrader: (1)

I had something similar happen to me a few years back where my employee contract was being changed. I looked at getting some independent advice from a lawyer on the situation, only to be told by the independent advice that the current employers could not change the contract without some negotiation as you have signed a prior contract to say you have agreed to the terms of the current employment. Fortunately at the time I managed to land another job and left before the contract was put into effect. My best advice is to seek out individual legal advice.

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Well today a letter arrived and it stated that my wifes contract of employment will cease accordingly from the 8/12/08. The new contract will start on the 4/3/09, When my wife sat in the meeting last week their was no mention of her contract ceasing that day, Please could anyone tell me where my wife now stands
Cheers
Colin

judgejules

Erm, so they're in effect firing her on the 8th of Dec for 3 months and she is working there without a contract right now?

Where does your wife stand? She stands up, and goes to the phone to call the CAB. Sounds like her company is taking the p**s tbh.

I would advise your wife not to go into work until she gets some real advice and this is resolved. Carrying on working now she has everything in writing could be seen that she accepts the terms of the letter and the contract changes. If she wants to leave her post, she has grounds for unfair dismissal and it would go to tribunal probably in her favour.

If she's worked there without a break for 22 odd years then she's entitled to at least 12 weeks notice, which is what she would be looking to get as a lump sum from the tribunal.

As I said above, speak to your CAB/ACAS.

G'luck

J

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

judgejules,
Cheers for that advice it is along the lines I have been telling her myself, her and her friend tomorrow are ringing ACAS tomorrow at 9 A.M. Hopefully for a good result, Anymore advice would be graetfully received.
Cheers
Colin

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

In harsh reality,employers can change contracts and if you dont agree you just leave the job.yeah it can go to tribunal etc but you will still leave the job,maybe with some cash in your pocket if tribunal is the route taken.
i had similiar,they wanted to go 24/7,we said go swivel,i left before the contracts changed for other reasons ha ha but the other guys that said go swivel and stayed till the end just lost their jobs when the new contracts took affect.

maybe if we knew the law better it would of been different...............

jasey

I'd be very careful getting bulshy with employers just now.

Everyone's in the **** and they presumably are trying to limit the number of redundancies they are perhaps going to be facing??

Not a good time to be standing up for your rights - might be more prudent to accept the new terms and start looking for a new job.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

druddle

I believe that if they want to change your T&Cs of employment they have to give you 2 months notice and it has to be with your agreement.

As above, speak to a union (unless its in the T&Cs that you are not allowed to be in one - it is in mine) or go to CAB.

Dave

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

I know at my work, they are supposed to give a certain amount of notice for change of contract, and it is supposed to be with mutual agreement... if there is any problem with changes, it can be discussed, which knowing my place that means they tell you it will be happening regardless.

Saying that, they can change hours and all manner of stuff at very short notice, if any, with no discussion as they have a little bit in the contract about us having to be flexible and work more/different hours if required.

Tbh, unless there is someone here who knows employment law very well, and I don't know if that depends what is in her existing contract, I would also suggest getting in touch with ACAS/CAB or someone independant. Good luck.

Milamber

iTrader: (2)

A pay rise is a change in your terms and conditions, would you want to wait 2 months for that

Diesel

It's a job mate not a benefit; not a God given right for life. The business isn't run solely for her benefit... Just be reasonable (as they should) rather than intransigent as that could be prejudicial in the longer term, and especially at present. D

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

I doubt she thinks it is, and I doubt she sees it as a benefit (although I can't be sure), but in fairness, people take on jobs which have certain hours/days of work etc for a reason. That's normally why we have contracts, to serve the interests of both sides. We don't know why she is unhappy about this, or if there is a reason she can't work, which is why it would be best to get some proper advice.

I wouldn't advocate being unreasonable, but if her circumstances aren't being taken into account, and just having changes forced on her, then I think she has the right to at least question that and see where she stands. Too many employers think they can just change the goalposts, and shout out contract this when it suits, but often don't fulfill their end if it suits.

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

What it is guys, Lorraine works in the Hotel Buissness, she has done her present Job as Head housekkeper for 20 years, What they what her to do after all this time is change her contract so she works 5 days out of 7, apparantly this was supposed to have been done about 10 years ago but was never inforced, It's only since they have had a new manager who is a 2 faced bas*ard this has come about, now my wife is not only Headhousekeeper she is the inhouse florist too, when my wife had the meeting last week as I have already said their was no mention of her contract being ceased on the 8/12/08 It was only yesterday when we got the letter she found that out, and they want the new contract signed and sent back by Friday 16/12/08, as far as she was concerned she had until 3/3/09 until the new contract came into force, now we find it is something totally differant, she has this morning gone in to ring ACAS and her and her friend are going to seek legal advice, she told me last night that under no cicumstances was she going to sign the new contract has they have not been totally honest with her, my concern is if my wife has an accident whilst doing her job and her contract has been ceased is she insured?
Cheers
Colin

Milamber

iTrader: (2)

The real question is whether the employers would be insured - she would claim against them and their insurers would have to pay out. Your wife is not the one who needs to be insured.

Now, coming back to your question depending on what happened your wife would normally claim under the various health and safety legislation that there has been a breach of the stautory duty that the employers have towards her. If she is not an employee and therefore just a visitor then the occupiers liability act will help her and failing that just plain straightforward negligence.

She/you doesn't need to worry

HTH

Devildog

Colin - a contract of employment does not need to be in writing. It can be verbal, and it can be express or implied.

An employer cannot unilaterally change terms and conditions wthout adhereing to the various steps laid down in the employment legisltation, unless the employee agrees.

Is it really that big a deal though?

Brun

It would be a big deal to me - my weekend is my weekend. I've been pushed and pulled over the years with regards to the hours i work - sometimes i didn't like it but i got on with it. Breach my weekend then there would be serious foot stamping time....

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

That's my feeling too. Not regarding weekends, I've always had to work them, well not Sundays now, as I opted out, but my issue with work is when at little to no notice, they want me working evenings. I worked nights for a long time for them, as it's what I had to do at the time, but then a while back those circumstances changed, and a day job came up, so I took it. Mainly as it was full time guaranteed, but also as it eventually meant I would be free on evenings to have time with family etc. So call me inflexible, but yes I have an issue when they now want to change the goalposts and expect me working nights again, with no discussion.

I am reasonable with work, and have done alot of favours for them, but this is something that really does **** me off. At the end of the day, people have lives outside work.

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

At the end of the day, people have lives outside work, Lisa you are right, their is not a W/E goes by without the bloody phone ringing, because people can't find things, Anyhows Lorraine and Sally(her friend) have been onto ACAS this morning and have been told their is sod all they can do about it, So tomorrow the guy who wanted them to do it is coming down and a meeting will take place, Lorraine&Sally are going to put their case forward to this manager and see what he has to say about it all, She works bloody hard and I'm dammed if this pillock is gonna walk all over them, If it means she has too change then a whole new wage structare will have to come into force, we hardly see each other has it is so with her working W/E's we will see less of each other
Cheers
Colin

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

Good luck Colin for her and her friend. I doubt her boss will back down, but it can't hurt to put her feelings forward.

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Lisa, really I just wish she would walk away from the job, OK it might be hard for a few months but with her skills she will walse into another job!!!!! Thanks again.
Cheers
Colin

Gymbal

Changing T&C can be 1 week per year of service, unless agreed by the person involved (eg a pay rise!) As said above, not neccessarily written down.
To try anything else could lead to a constructive dismissal. Even if she resigned +- reinstatement etc.
just sounds fishy and the the manager is trying it on or has little experience of employment law?
Good luck

Kieran_Burns

iTrader: (1)

If the new terms and conditions mean personal hardship to her (and losing weekends would qualify) she can resign and claim constructive dismissal certainly. The only warning I would sound is that in her line of work, it may be hard to find alternate employment that does not require working weekends.

Good Luck though!

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for your help guys
Cheers
Colin

Diesel

Hope it works out for you and her mate. We need happy families!

However do remember though that the person running the business (i.e. taking ALL the risk) and paying her wages may have considerations that may also involve prioritising the best interests of his/her family.

Hope that point isn't too contentious...

D

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Yeah but where is the greedy bas*ard going to be Chritmas morning, not running around a Hotel trying to get home to their families, The git will be tucked up somewhere and will not have to report to work until after the new year!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Milamber

iTrader: (2)

perhaps your wife should have worked harder at school, then she could be the boss

Brun

Milamber

iTrader: (2)

tongue firmly in cheek

Diesel

I think that sums up your negative approach to the person who is undertaking a simple business transaction and paying your missus for her services.

Business are not run FOR employees or BY employees. Quit whining - just buy a hotel and do as you want as this hardly sounds like exploitation to me

Maybe I seem harsh (???), but to contextualise I had to change the rota of 25 staff recently to start an hour later and so finish an hour later. Christ the fuss, whining and shennanigans!!! At least it made the business solvent (not a thing they cared about really, in their own short term selfish little world...)

D

PS can I also add as further context for my comment that in the industry I work in you rarely if ever get a full time contract - employers have sussed that not doing so saves money on NI and much further hassle. They/I employ mostly freelancers or 'service providers'. Pension costs? What's that? Only something fat cats at Norwich Union and Council Tax Collections enjoy at all our expense ???