Personally i think he should hang
#1
Personally i think he should hang
Rhys Jones: Sean Mercer Found Guilty Of Shooting 11-Year-Old In L11 Merseyside | UK News | Sky News
Its about town these gang members were taught a lesson .They have no regard for life and would not hesitate to shoot you and your children dead in the street .
Its about town these gang members were taught a lesson .They have no regard for life and would not hesitate to shoot you and your children dead in the street .
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Personally I think he should be taught to shoot straight - then he might have shot the scummy gang member he was alledgedly aiming at.
Failing that hopefully he'll find himself a nice car when he gets out and he can wrap it round a tree killing himslef and hopefully more of his scum mates.
Failing that hopefully he'll find himself a nice car when he gets out and he can wrap it round a tree killing himslef and hopefully more of his scum mates.
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The judges summing up speech was spot on.Just heard it on the radio,so cant quote it-but aimed at all these wannabe gangsters.
Hope he rots in prison,but he will probably be a worse p.o.s. when he comes out,having learned a 'trade' from other inmates
Hope he rots in prison,but he will probably be a worse p.o.s. when he comes out,having learned a 'trade' from other inmates
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Rhys Jones Murder: Sean Mercer's Girlfriend Kelly Marshall Says He Is A Hero | UK News | Sky News
London ??
Let him walk in Liverpool, he'll be dead within 24 hours !
London ??
Let him walk in Liverpool, he'll be dead within 24 hours !
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She is madder than a box of frogs and yep, Yoza, I think/hope/expect you might be right there...
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Can you believe the crap she's spouted? Stupid isn't the word for it.
So why did he have a gun and shooting it at someone? If he ment no harm with it, then fire it in there air?
Then Shirley that's a good thing, there will be fewer shootings /
It was an accident. Everyone in Croxteth is sorry about it but it wasn't meant to happen," says Kelly.
"Sean is a lovely lad. He wouldn't harm anyone. It wasn't him.
"Sean is a lovely lad. He wouldn't harm anyone. It wasn't him.
She said: "Most of the lads from Croxteth are in jail. There's no one left.
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Boy X did well, he supplied the gun, turned informer, got off scott free with a new life and new ID.
Without the deal with boy X the Police would not have had enough to nail Mercer.
Without the deal with boy X the Police would not have had enough to nail Mercer.
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****** ought to have his head torn off and impaled on the gates of the Liver Building
scum didnt give the lad he killed a chance of life, why should he get one?
scum didnt give the lad he killed a chance of life, why should he get one?
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He wasnt that "off his head" as he could clearly ride his mountain bike one handed.
He was told that three members of a rival Norris Green gang were about to invade his Manor, so he obtained his gun and went looking for them, apparently to frighten them off.... but it all went tragically wrong, and as we all know, and he shot innocent Rhys.
He was told that three members of a rival Norris Green gang were about to invade his Manor, so he obtained his gun and went looking for them, apparently to frighten them off.... but it all went tragically wrong, and as we all know, and he shot innocent Rhys.
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Another reason for bringing back the death penalty, a simple injection and we would start to solve these problems. We as a society are failing by not demanding it be brought back. Stop wasting our ****ing money trying to "rehabilitate" these wastes of space
#18
Makes me laugh when little ******* claim a "territory", its no more a claim to an area than a Tomcat has by p1ssing on things, they own nothing and never will, thats why they live there and no other ****** wants it anyway because its inhabited by turds like that.
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Transcript of the Judges' sentencing
"Rhys Jones died at your hands. His death was a tragedy for him and for his family, a waste of a promising, young life. His parents’ dignity throughout this process has been deeply impressive to any of us who have seen it. The way they have behaved has been a standing reproach to those in the dock, and particularly to you Mercer, who killed their son. But it is clear that their composure conceals searing emotions, which we can guess at, but which those of us who have not lost a child can hardly fully understand. The impact upon them and upon Rhys’s brother is enormous.
"There is only one sentence for murder, in your case detention for life, in formal language detention at Her Majesty’s pleasure, and that is the sentence I shall pass upon you
"It is necessary for me to set a minimum period to be served, before you can be eligible for release on licence. As I think has now become well known, this period is not the period you will serve. It is the minimum period you will serve, before you may even be considered for release. The decision whether you may ever be released will be take many years from now, and will reflect whether you are then thought to represent a risk to the public.
"If you had committed this crime at the age of 18, the age you are today, the starting point set by statute for this minimum period would be 30 years. As it is, because you were just short of your 17th birthday at the time of the offence, the starting point is 12 years...
"This offence arose from the stupid, brutal gang conflict which has struck this part of Liverpool. You were caught up in that from a young age, but it is clear you gloried in it. It is wrong to let anyone glorify or romanticise this king of gang conflict. You are not soldiers. You have no discipline, no training, no honour. You do not command respect. You may think you do, but that is because you cannot tell the difference between respect and fear. You are selfish, shallow criminals, remarkable only by the danger you pose to others.
"You were told that Brady and the others from Norris Green had been seen on the Croxteth Park Estate, and you took that as an invasion of your territory, as if you had the right to territory, or to occupation of it. Or it may be you saw this as an opportunity. And so you armed yourself and set off.
The CCTV evidence shows you hunting for your intended victims, first behind the Fir Tree Public House, and then coming back round the end of the pub... Then your aggression became alloyed with cowardice. You stopped by that wall, and fired at your intended victims from 70 yards across a pub car-park, with bystanders all round, and with cars moving across the car-park in the moments before you fired.
Your first shot nearly struck your intended victims, hitting a metal container about a foot from one of them. They fled as fast as they could. You tracked them, and fired twice more, arms extended, aiming shots with murderous intent, as the jury have rightly found. Your second shot cut down Rhys Jones. He died because of your brutality and because you are a coward.
"You gave no evidence in your trial. In my view it is absolutely clear that you had no answer to the case against you. You proved you were a coward again. You did not admit what you had done, and the witnesses and Rhys Jones’s family had to go through a two-month trial. You cannot be punished more for that, but you have of course lost any of the mitigation you might have had, if you had admitted what you did. Instead you engaged in a conscious effort to destroy the evidence which might lead to your detection, an effort which sucked in your co-defendants.
"You have a previous conviction for possessing a prohibited weapon earlier in 2007, but I do not hold that as a significant separate factor in sentencing you, since I have little doubt it arose from your gang involvement, which I certainly do take into account as aggravating this offence.
"This killing involved the use of a firearm; involved a degree of planning, both in order to be ready for the continuing conflict by having firearms quickly available to you, and over a short time in relation to the incident itself. It is aggravated by the danger your actions represented to the public – you turned this ordinary car park into a dangerous place, something which produces huge public dismay.
I am quite satisfied that you intended to kill one or both of the two young men from Norris Green, if you could do it without getting too close to them and putting yourself at any risk. You shot at them, intending to hit them with a large calibre bullet. You then set about a systematic attempt to avoid being arrested, destroying evidence and pressurising witnesses. Although you are not separately charged with such offences, the verdicts in relation to your co-defendants and the probe evidence make clear that was what you were doing.
"It is also true that your victim was young, and could be considered vulnerable, although anyone walking across that car park would have been vulnerable to what you did. Those are all aggravating features of this offence. So is the gang element to it, which means that this sentence must have a deterrent element.
"There is one other factor which I bear in mind. This offence took place within a day of the first anniversary of another killing, a killing by other members of the Croxteth gang, of a young man from Norris Green. Liam Smith died on Wednesday 23rd August 2006, shot down when ambushed outside Altcourse prison. Rhys Jones died as the trial for that murder approached its close. I have no doubt you were well aware of all that. The fact that another young man had been killed a year before did not make you hold back. It may even have encouraged you.
"Apart from your age, which I have already mentioned and which I do take into account, there are no mitigating factors here. Your age determines the starting point and has thus been strongly reflected already in the sentencing process I have gone through. I accept that you were not mature, although if appears to me it was your personality not your immaturity which was the key in this story. In relation to your age and your personality, it is relevant to mention that despite being only 16, you clearly took the lead in the events of that day.
"Rhys Jones’s life is gone. We do not take a life for a life, although even if you are released, you will be under licence and supervised for as long as you live, liable to immediate recall to prison if you do anything wrong. However, the proper punishment here will have the effect that you will not emerge from prison, even at the earliest, for a very long time. You are 18 now. Then you will be at least on the verge of being a middle-aged man.
"The minimum period to be served here is one of 22 years.
"There is only one sentence for murder, in your case detention for life, in formal language detention at Her Majesty’s pleasure, and that is the sentence I shall pass upon you
"It is necessary for me to set a minimum period to be served, before you can be eligible for release on licence. As I think has now become well known, this period is not the period you will serve. It is the minimum period you will serve, before you may even be considered for release. The decision whether you may ever be released will be take many years from now, and will reflect whether you are then thought to represent a risk to the public.
"If you had committed this crime at the age of 18, the age you are today, the starting point set by statute for this minimum period would be 30 years. As it is, because you were just short of your 17th birthday at the time of the offence, the starting point is 12 years...
"This offence arose from the stupid, brutal gang conflict which has struck this part of Liverpool. You were caught up in that from a young age, but it is clear you gloried in it. It is wrong to let anyone glorify or romanticise this king of gang conflict. You are not soldiers. You have no discipline, no training, no honour. You do not command respect. You may think you do, but that is because you cannot tell the difference between respect and fear. You are selfish, shallow criminals, remarkable only by the danger you pose to others.
"You were told that Brady and the others from Norris Green had been seen on the Croxteth Park Estate, and you took that as an invasion of your territory, as if you had the right to territory, or to occupation of it. Or it may be you saw this as an opportunity. And so you armed yourself and set off.
The CCTV evidence shows you hunting for your intended victims, first behind the Fir Tree Public House, and then coming back round the end of the pub... Then your aggression became alloyed with cowardice. You stopped by that wall, and fired at your intended victims from 70 yards across a pub car-park, with bystanders all round, and with cars moving across the car-park in the moments before you fired.
Your first shot nearly struck your intended victims, hitting a metal container about a foot from one of them. They fled as fast as they could. You tracked them, and fired twice more, arms extended, aiming shots with murderous intent, as the jury have rightly found. Your second shot cut down Rhys Jones. He died because of your brutality and because you are a coward.
"You gave no evidence in your trial. In my view it is absolutely clear that you had no answer to the case against you. You proved you were a coward again. You did not admit what you had done, and the witnesses and Rhys Jones’s family had to go through a two-month trial. You cannot be punished more for that, but you have of course lost any of the mitigation you might have had, if you had admitted what you did. Instead you engaged in a conscious effort to destroy the evidence which might lead to your detection, an effort which sucked in your co-defendants.
"You have a previous conviction for possessing a prohibited weapon earlier in 2007, but I do not hold that as a significant separate factor in sentencing you, since I have little doubt it arose from your gang involvement, which I certainly do take into account as aggravating this offence.
"This killing involved the use of a firearm; involved a degree of planning, both in order to be ready for the continuing conflict by having firearms quickly available to you, and over a short time in relation to the incident itself. It is aggravated by the danger your actions represented to the public – you turned this ordinary car park into a dangerous place, something which produces huge public dismay.
I am quite satisfied that you intended to kill one or both of the two young men from Norris Green, if you could do it without getting too close to them and putting yourself at any risk. You shot at them, intending to hit them with a large calibre bullet. You then set about a systematic attempt to avoid being arrested, destroying evidence and pressurising witnesses. Although you are not separately charged with such offences, the verdicts in relation to your co-defendants and the probe evidence make clear that was what you were doing.
"It is also true that your victim was young, and could be considered vulnerable, although anyone walking across that car park would have been vulnerable to what you did. Those are all aggravating features of this offence. So is the gang element to it, which means that this sentence must have a deterrent element.
"There is one other factor which I bear in mind. This offence took place within a day of the first anniversary of another killing, a killing by other members of the Croxteth gang, of a young man from Norris Green. Liam Smith died on Wednesday 23rd August 2006, shot down when ambushed outside Altcourse prison. Rhys Jones died as the trial for that murder approached its close. I have no doubt you were well aware of all that. The fact that another young man had been killed a year before did not make you hold back. It may even have encouraged you.
"Apart from your age, which I have already mentioned and which I do take into account, there are no mitigating factors here. Your age determines the starting point and has thus been strongly reflected already in the sentencing process I have gone through. I accept that you were not mature, although if appears to me it was your personality not your immaturity which was the key in this story. In relation to your age and your personality, it is relevant to mention that despite being only 16, you clearly took the lead in the events of that day.
"Rhys Jones’s life is gone. We do not take a life for a life, although even if you are released, you will be under licence and supervised for as long as you live, liable to immediate recall to prison if you do anything wrong. However, the proper punishment here will have the effect that you will not emerge from prison, even at the earliest, for a very long time. You are 18 now. Then you will be at least on the verge of being a middle-aged man.
"The minimum period to be served here is one of 22 years.
Last edited by bugeyeandy; 16 December 2008 at 09:58 PM.
#20
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I know I'm in a minority on here, but hey each to their own!
Lock him up for a very very long time.
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One thing is for certain it will cost far far more money if we have a death penalty rather than keeping people locked up, the financial arguement isn't a good one. Beside we should not be turning this into a what's cheaper debate, surely its about what is right, you think DP is right, I don't.
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wonder how a national referendum would vote, i'm sure it would be a majority in favour which is why the Government will never ask the population of the UK what they really want.
#26
One thing is for certain it will cost far far more money if we have a death penalty rather than keeping people locked up, the financial arguement isn't a good one. Beside we should not be turning this into a what's cheaper debate, surely its about what is right, you think DP is right, I don't.
Whilst discussing this and for the avoidence of doubt, had the Subaru thieves (who burnt alive) killed someone then i wouldnt class this as murder, even though i consider it damn close, those ******* just reaped what they sowed thats all.
Last edited by Buzzer; 16 December 2008 at 10:36 PM.
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This is from 2006
It's closer than I thought actually, if we had a proper debate I suspect it would be a very close thing indeed
Death penalty: Your verdict | 99% of Sun readers from our poll vote in favour of reintroducing capital punishment | The Sun |News|Sun Justice
Although 99% of Sun readers support according to this one
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Martin i just toughened the system up ! Hell of a deterent aswell dont you think? ....... and satisfied the majority of the British public into the bargain Now i dont know about the financial implications of both schools of thought but i would imagine we could save a considerable amount of the tax payers money with the death penalty....... not like the USA's circus act, swift action, no death row scenarios. I would however conceed that i am only in favour of the death penalty for pure 100% without doubt open and shut cases......... oh and for killing anyone in the public services.
Whilst discussing this and for the avoidence of doubt, had the Subaru thieves (who burnt alive) killed someone then i wouldnt class this as murder, even though i consider it damn close, those ******* just reaped what they sowed thats all.
Whilst discussing this and for the avoidence of doubt, had the Subaru thieves (who burnt alive) killed someone then i wouldnt class this as murder, even though i consider it damn close, those ******* just reaped what they sowed thats all.
BTW most of the costs of keeping someone in prison must surely be 'fixed costs' anyway, unless you have to build new prisons (which I think we should be doing anyway), and hiring more employees. Plus of course the actual cost involved is in the grand scene of things is the square route of nothing.
#29
I totally agree Martin, theres no way of knowing without a referendum but i suspect CP would get a big majority vote and the longer we go in this country without one, the further the balance will sway in CP's favour. Society is just sick of it. My god imagine these shooting stories back in the 60's ??????? ........ young men shooting and killing one another and innocent bystanders dying, jeez it sounds like the USA not the UK. How do we tackle this head on with zero tolerence? Its the way forward Martin, harsh yes but not as harsh as life is going to be for the normal innocent tax paying joe public who will eventually have to plan his route to the shops in fear of "no go" areas
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I totally agree Martin, theres no way of knowing without a referendum but i suspect CP would get a big majority vote and the longer we go in this country without one, the further the balance will sway in CP's favour. Society is just sick of it. My god imagine these shooting stories back in the 60's ??????? ........ young men shooting and killing one another and innocent bystanders dying, jeez it sounds like the USA not the UK. How do we tackle this head on with zero tolerence? Its the way forward Martin, harsh yes but not as harsh as life is going to be for the normal innocent tax paying joe public who will eventually have to plan his route to the shops in fear of "no go" areas
I think I agree with most of this, and I totally support getting tough, mandatory life sentencing for murder, mandatory jail for carrying knives or owning an illegal fire-arm etc etc.
But 'the journey to the shops' is only going to be made safer by tackling the route causes as well as the symptoms.
We can't go executing every social inadequte in the country, you haven't said you support the DP for gang members and muggers afterall.
And using the US as example kind of makes my point about deterents, because it's demonstrably not a deterent in the states that have the DP.
Last edited by Martin2005; 16 December 2008 at 11:00 PM.