f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

There is something to be said for this point of view:

BBC NEWS | Business | Optimism is the cure for the downturn

Not black and white, but I have said since last October that the media are making this whole 'recession' business a heck of a lot worse by scaring people even more with their almost undisguised glee at looking on the worst possible side of everything.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Totally agree. Been sayign something similar. Yesterday all we had was "worst christmas trading on record" when it was down by what? 3%?? How can that possibly be the case? Seriously the companies of the UK should be better managed if they can't ride out a 3% fall in profit.

Same with the house prices. All year we were told "huge drop in prices this month" and "20% lost this month alone" then at the end of the year it was a big outcry because prices were 16% down on a year earlier. Just 16%?? I must have missed the way they seemed to be going down by that monthly (according to the press) not annually!

Get a grip!

5t.

dpb

You cant have an ecomomy based on untruths forever tho im sure the media can take some blame but i guess its just speeded up the obvious which is that the Chinas of this world are now coming to the fore and squeezing the old world order

hux309

We'll bounce back, sure it'll take a while but there's no point in being downtrodden about it, just make the most of what you have and carry on regardless.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

No and no one is saying it isn't bad, but the guy is right in that we ain't going to get out of this by wallowing in the doom and the gloom. The media seem to like us to do exactly that.

As for China - they are suffering pretty badly themselves and so they should as 'Made in China' seems to me to be a euphemism for 'will only last a couple of years at best'. The laugh is I am actually now relieved to see 'Made in Taiwan' - it has become a mark of quality LOL!

Devildog

Agreed

On the BBC news this morning the quote by the newscaster

"with banks refusing to lend"

Utter ****e, the banks are not refusing to lend, and a very dangerous thing to be puting in joe publics head

skoobidude

Yeh the banks make money by lending so why would they refuse?
As long as the borrower has good history etc - yes there's a small risk of job loss but there always is.

Agreed about the media. I tend to record the news and forward the Credit Crunch crap.

stuart n

I think they mean banks refuse to lend to small companies, they used the example of a car tuning company with a turn over of £1 million. They've asked for a £10K over draft and were refused so they had to get rid of their receptionist.
My financial adviser was refused credit to buy a new Vauxhall last week as he was deemed "too much of a risk"

JTaylor

I agree. Whilst I understand that sentiment has an important role to play in the fortunes of our economy, as a species we need to go through these challenging times in order to re-orientate ourselves. Our methods for 'growth' have proved unsuccessful. Simply papering over the cracks by being "optimistic" (a euphemism for returning to frivolity) will, in the long term and with respect to future generations, prove futile.

StickyMicky

+1


Facts of the matter are, that if the media did not scaremonger the great unwashed, half the problems now, would not even exist.

People are now scared to spend money, for reasons they don't even understand, its pathetic.

unclebuck

No.

Don't fall for the BBC propaganda machine. They lie to you.

JTaylor

Do you really believe this is media inspired? Yes, they're adding fuel to the fire but the fire was ignited by an unsustainable economic model. It's failed, take the punishment.

FlightMan

People are scared to spend money as they're worried they're about to loose their jobs.

That's not pathetic and it's not hard to understand is it?

StickyMicky

that is true, but the average spazmo daily star/sun/mirror reader who works in a shop/factory/whatever reads the news, thinks OMGDZ and then instantly starts buying smart price beans and sausages to feed his family, the knock effect from them all was devastating, i was able to see it instantly in trade, the local regular taxi drivers/shop keepers/etc etc that use my wash said the same, everything instantly went downhill.

how it affected me, well i stopped buying in stock, this was passed onto my suppliers, who then never got bulk orders for chemicals in, everybody else did the same, he then has no money coming in for his suppliers, and it spreads forth at an alarming rate!

the average bloke in the street had to pay a few quid more for his petrol and a bit extra on his shopping, but it had next to no real effect on them, unless they were messing around with houses or the like, but still they went nuts, because the papers told them to

will give you an example, most of our washes are the top one, its £7 now you would think people would cut back, drop down the wash programs if things were getting a little tight, the cheapest one is £1.70

did i see people dropping down the programs?

nope, it just instantly stopped dead, it was quite amazing to see at the time, not just me either, like i say most of the other "small chaps" i have spoken to said the same, remember this is what i would consider the "bottom rung" of spending, when the cheapest bottom run goes **** up you know something other then "banks not lending money out" is going on

StickyMicky

People are now losing jobs because people are/were not spending at the bottom rung of the ladder.

its a knock on effect, i went from personal earnings increasing on the previous year, to 10k down on the previous year in the blink of an eye

and so did everybody else in my position

this time last year we were doing 200-300 cars a day through the carwash, same for the previous year, and the previous year, this year the most i have seen is 148

same story at all the other sites.......

it crashed in trade for us, LONG before people started losing jobs, big names going down etc etc, infact guess when it crashed for us, yup you guess right, it was as soon as the media started ****ing things up LOL, and i would assume its the same for most other small business owners who deal in small amounts of cash to the public

was true with all the ones i have spoken to so far

you only have to see all the spackers raiding shelves for bread and milk when petrol runs out to determine that the vast majority of them, and complete clueless spaz-flids

paper says = quest for a mile for fuel
spaz-brain says = must getz milkz n breadz

JTaylor

It's a correction. I understand that you're suffering and it isn't your fault. It's the fault of greedy, deceptive *******s but we have to suck it up and make sure that we, the proles, don't let it happen again.

StickyMicky

i don't have any previous experience of "corrections" so can only look at things logically

but IMO corrections should not really affect somebody buying a bag of sweets from a corner shop, or not getting a taxi somewhere, these things cost pennies, its loose change, even a bum on the dole still usually buys his mars bars and gets a taxi down to the job centre.


buying an over priced house/car/boat (previous SN thread lol) yeah, i can fully understand how and why, but loose change items, i simply cant believe that people stopped buying a paper or a sarnie from a local shop, because fat cats in an office somewhere where creaming the top. the people at the bottom dont give a monkeys about that stuff, it does not effect them, all they know is that the paper says everything has went **** up, so they intially stop spending and making things worse

fwiw, as i suspected people did start to venture out from under the mattress, and started buying the small items again.

things are not great for most small chaps, but they seam to be improving, how long it takes to spread further afield into more expensive "items" i have no idea, i suspect housing is buggered for at least another 12 months.

i suspect most of the smaller chaps will be feeling some relief by the middle of summer.

anyway this thread is far to serious for me now, not quite sure what got into me

JTaylor

Well, Micky, it has gone **** up...significantly so and I'm afraid this constitutes news. The press aren't going to stop doing their job simply because less punters are forking out for 'the works'. Suck it up, ride it out if you can and understand that selfish, greedy, c*nts are to blame, not the media.

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

Micky, I doubt it is all because the papers have told people to stop spending etc. that things have gone **** up, especially for them at the lower end of the scale. Although, at times, I will not argue that the media doesn't always help matters.

Even before there was so much risk to jobs as it seems now, people were beginning to cut back, yes maybe by some influence from the media, but it will have mattered to the little person the price that petrol had become, and the increases in the shopping bill, also increases in energy bills, the **** up in income tax for a period of time, and probably alot more. To those on the lower wages, that would make a difference, I can tell you as one of them. These things pale into insignificance to those who don't have to worry too much about where money goes, but to those not so well off, they mean the difference between where they shop, how many luxuries they have and how often they go and pay for their car washed.

Not to mention, some of these people lower down have been stupid for long enough living beyond their means, or through easy credit, and it has started to hit home that can't be done anymore (myself included in this). The realisation this can't be paid back, or having to cut back to get by now. This means a shift in habits, and no matter whether we try to apportion blame to the media, the banks, individuals themselves, it really doesn't matter, this is what is happening, and maybe it is not the worst in terms of curbing the spending of some who surpassed what they could afford.

I don't wish for bad times for you, as I work in retail myself, so know first hand what could be coming, and how much worse things are.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I think a few are missing the point here. No one is saying that the recession is not here and it is not bad, but the general gist of the article is that if we all just wallow in it and become increasingly pessimistic then we will never get ourselves out of it.

I simply went on to opine that the media have made a bad situation worse. I know for a few on SN the thought of it all coming crashing down and being able to blame it all squarely on the shoulders of Gordon Brown is something they actually find entertaining or even comforting which to be seems a very bizarre mindset to me and one which means that they don't want to blame anyone but Gordon, but for my money Micky is bang on in that the situation is made far worse by the media and the average ******** reaction to their sensationalism.

Fuzz

Well I don't know about you but the bank has got arsey with me..

I'm £170 over my overdraft for the 3rd ish month in a row and I have been sent a sh1tty letter telling me to cut my card up and send it back, if I don't they will send someone round to collect it and charge me for doing so..

Thanks then !!

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

Well I for one could be classed as one of those average ******** in some respects. I personally rarely watch the news or read papers(I find them generally too depressing). However for me, I have reacted merely to the fact that times were getting harder, things were becoming more expensive, and I like many others had to review their spending, even more so those who were living at least in part on borrowed money. Some people have had to take a look at their lifestyles, media or not.

I have no doubt in my mind that the media may have stirred up more panic in some cases, but in possibly many it made people stop and think about how they were behaving. I don't imagine people who are reasonably well off (providing now they aren't at risk of losing their job) have as much to worry about, and need to stop spending, but I do think those lower down, it's a different matter. The media wouldn't have effected all of them, it was a matter of time.

Devildog

Was that "as reported" or is that something you have first hand knowledge of?

Turnover is a red herring and irrelevant as far as a measure of risk. Look at Woolworths.

Profit and asset cover is key.

Your finaincial advisor needs to be checking his credit rating...

Devildog

I agree in part, but there is no question that irresponsible, sensasionalist and blatantly wrong reporting compounds the issue.

jacrobat

As a friend of mine says 'Sales for vanity and profit for sanity'

unclebuck

Don't forgrt to 'dip your bread'

Matteeboy

You can have £millions in turnover and still no (or even negative) profit.
You can also have "modest" turnover but very large profit %ages (80% net or so in the case of our company).

Turnover is about as useful a figure as total company bog roll consumption.
I have no idea why it is quoted so often.

Leslie

I agree that the crazed sections of the media are not helping, they just motor on in their own selfish way to drum up more business and they can be very irresponsible in so many ways.

By the same token we have to accept a bad situation and can't deny that there will be troubles for a long time to come. People were encouraged to over borrow by huge amounts and that is leaving many in the real dwang to say the least.

We were certainly the victims of greedy and unprincipled people who are laughing at us now with all the riches they got out of it and I can't help feeling that we are about to be screwed all over again over the taxpayers' money which has been thrown at them, with more to come they say!

We can only keep going as best we can and hope that it won't be impossible for it all to get sorted out and be properly regulated in the future.

Les

JTaylor

If the reaction of the '********' (we'll assume you're referring to the uneducated, lower working classes, here) is to spend less money than that is a good thing. They may finally realise that they have been bled dry by big business, stitched-up by the banks and had their pants pulled down by HM Government. Thank goodness the redtops are forewarning them to keep a few quid aside. As an example, I was in one of my stores in Llanelli in SW Wales the other day where a couple were trying to cancel an order because hubby had just been made redundant by Calsonic. Calsonic make (made) car parts and at present the redundancies are frighting. Their must be an awful lot of '********' scared for their jobs and rightly so, indeed the number that has been and will be lost is sensational and is being reported accordingly.

Matteeboy

I think the galling thing is that many of "us" weren't stupid with loans/mortgages, etc but still have to pay the price - higher taxes for many years to come.