JonMc

iTrader: (51)

BBC NEWS | Business | UK car plant 'at risk of closure'

Whilst I feel for the 6000 or so workers who will be out of business, I am still at a loss as to why we, the tax payers, should bail out car making fat cats after the last bail out they had did nothing to stimulate the market. Prices aren't coming down, interest rates on car finance is not reducing, why should my taxes provide the opportunity for another industry to reward itself with huge bonuses following a bail out

Matteeboy

I agree. Let them go bust.

Natural selection.

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

You'd have to be a mug to buy new anyway plenty of desperate people who have overstretched themselves are desperate to flog off their nearly new motors now. There's a porsche and an x5 going cheap at work

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

I've only bought a new car once and that was 15 years ago, never again. But new or old, there is no financial stimulus in the car industry other than consumer panic despite one substanial payout from the government.

yoza

Car Industry Wants a Tax Payer Bail Out..No they dont.

Read and listen to what they want, tax payer bail out isnt it.

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

Which part of 'State Aid' isn't funded by the tax payer, where is £1.1billion going to come from, who is going to pay for the subsidies that are being requested

yoza

Car Industry Bosses Set To Have Talks With Government Over Credit Boost | Business | Sky News

A bit boring, but it may suit you.

Ste RB5138

6,000 jobs that is grim news, where are these people going to find their next job?

nik52wrx

More funding for the car inustry is a waste of time imo.
Speaking for myself and as somebody that does buy new cars there's not a cat in hells chance of me buying a car at the moment. I work in the construction industry which is also taking a hard hit and therefore there is a large amount of uncertainty regarding job security.
How about putting more money into construction then maybe i'll buy a car?
Until my job is secure i wont be buying a new car and i dare say there are plenty of people in a similar position so why keep on making them.
Besides, when i do buy a new car i dont want one thats been sat in a storage compound for eight months.

Nik.

DYK

It's silly idea really as no point throwing tons of money to build more cars that people are still not going to go out and buy/no market for,or can't get finance.Although driving past some dealerships ive seen some cracking deals about,i was tempted on that Octavia vrs but i changed my mind.Don't know what i was thinking to give up the scoob despite a few mechanical problems lately im now getting sorted.

mart360

lol at you lot

you obviously don't know anything about the automotive industry, otherwise you,d

not be coming out with the "let it close" statements your wildly making (btw not you yoza )

The automotive industry, isnt just the 6000 bods building cars at the plant,

behind them is the tier 1, 2 & 3 supply chain are hundreds of thousands of "employees" who will also be out of jobs as well.

Tier 1 suppliers are the main suppliers into the car plants, there "sole" business is

based on orders from the main plant. this will be a volume of live production parts,

and parts for the supplychain, (spares etc).

Tier 2 are the suppliers into tier 1, they supply the sub components, or raw

materials that the tier 1 supplier needs.

Tier 3 are the suppliers who make raw materials, for the tier 2 & 1 suppliers to turn

into there parts.

You then have to factor in the associated company's who work alongside all of the

above. Transport, logistics, storage etc.

Very quickly your 6000 has turned into 126000.

Mart

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

My understanding was that the 6000 jobs at risk where the car makers and the related industries, so the tier 2 and 3 industries in your words.

mart360

Many of the tier 1 & 2 suppliers have already laid off staff, so the 6000 figure is prolly

inaccurate.

either way, its not good news


Mart

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

No it's not good news. I'd rather see something along the lines of the US Stimulus bill that will employ these unlucky sods in projects 'for the better good' rather than squander more resources on supporting those who paid into party funds

Petem95

Nobody wants to see job losses, but what do you suggest - just keep building cars nobody can afford/wants, and just park them in a field somewhere?...

People think the government has a huge pot of money to spend on bailouts, but the truth is all this bailout money is just massive loans being taken out and paid for by the taxpayer, and they've already got to pay back an obscene amount taking decades. Most people just don't understand this.

Bailouts can only be an absolute LAST resort, otherwise the whole country will collapse, not just one industry.

hodgy0_2

shipbuilding mining steel etc all lost millions of jobs in the 80's

maybe every industry has its day

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

Globalization for you

mart360

Pete, its not just a case of building cars and stockpiling lol

in the uk we have at least 10 million people of eligble car driving age, if you apply some generous factoring of ownership, you have approx 2 million cars.

At some time, those 2 million cars will need replacing, either by choice or by other factors.

Your average car plant turns out 1000 cars a day, thats 400 weeks just to replace

those cars, in the uk,.

would you want to wait 8 years just to get a new car?

Car manufacturers like any other industry, have to predict and unfortunately stock

pile cars to meet demand, and believe me, there is a huge demand.

The automotive industry isnt a small oem like Morgan, these are global company's,

who supply worldwide, some markets want more cars than you can produce.

hence the need to build huge volumes.

For every car built, theres at least one thats taken out of the running, so the market is

to an extent buoyant. The problem at the moment is the banks wont give the oem,s

money to complete the day to day stuff, like purchasing materials etc & ironically

paying back the loans the banks have with them. Its this lack of liquidity thats causing

problems.

The banks are also not lending money to punters who in many cases can quite

happily pay back the loans etc.

There always has been a proportion of the market who default on loans, but what

we have now is a blanket knee jerk reaction from the banks, who have been given

huge sums to bail them out, and to "supposedly" start lending, but are refusing to,

and by keeping the coffers in house, are now starting to give big problems to other

quite solvent company's.

If you think the 3 trillion, Gords pumped into the economy is bad enough, wipe

out the automotive sector, and it will melt down.

Look at the Americans, theyve finally worked out that the cost of state aid to the

millions of automotive workers who would be affected if the industry crashed, is

astronomical, hence the bailout package.

Yes the big 3 are part of the problem, but look at some of the dependable's.

Toyota, a company not noted for doing badly, has lost money for the first time in its

history, and that isn't due to overproduction!


mart

RyanSTI

iTrader: (1)

lets have it right, the only companys that need money are the same ones that always needed money, landrover, jaguar and all the other **** companys that seem to limp along all the time.

mini closing is because bmw are closing factories, and they never changed the mini much over the years and now its lost its funky ness.



who cares anyway you'll all be driving Audi's in a few years time anyway. The only company to buck this trend.

mart360

And which BMW factorys are closing?

All of the BMW plants have laid of workers, gone onto short time, to save jobs.

which would you rather, mini to go completely, or the company downsize to survive?

mart

corradoboy

Wasn't it mathematically proven recently that the income tax from the employees and the other taxes applied to the sale of the vehicles would quickly outweigh the cost of the bail-out, whereas letting the factories close and people kicked out on the street to claim benefits would cripple the government coffers almost overnight ? IIRC, 2007 was the first year that benefits expenditure overtook income tax payments, so shifting that balance further is a recipe for disaster. Sometimes you have to wait to see what grows after sowing your seeds, and during this economic crisis we all have to look a bit further ahead than todays bottom line. I agree that these massive multinational companies should have put aside for a rainy day, but things seemed to change so quickly once the actions of the foofing bankers started coming to light that they couldn't react.

BTW, if you want to see which company have bucked the trend, look at Audi's owners. Porsche made £10bn last year

nik52wrx

That may be so and yes i am aware that the car industry extends beyond the assembly plant!

However i still wont be buying a car until my industry picks up, dealers can offer all the incentives they want i still wont buy and as i said earlier i doubt i'm alone. All spare cash is going into savings, a car is an expensive luxury item so a new one is way down the list at the moment.

Nik.

DYK

well im actually at the moment pritty much comfortable in my job at present and forseable future..But ive decided to spend a few quid getting the scoob all serviced and what not for this year,and pay off my credit cards..

nik52wrx

Wasn't that from some dubious share dealing though?

GC8

This shower of bast*rds already as each one of ss in hock for over £33,000; so why not?

corradoboy

It was, although under German trading laws it wasn't too dubious. It's still being investigated, and if done in most other markets in the world they would have been shot down but they stand a high chance of pulling it off. It means Porsche, the tiny, low volume sports car maker now pretty much owns VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda, Lamborghini, Bentley and Bugatti.

Steve vRS

There's a major chemicals plant that I know of that is on the brink. If it goes, it will lose 600 direct jobs and about the same indirect. It's a shame it's not a household name and therefore not news worthy as if it goes, a whole town will sink with it Not even a peep of government aid there.

In fact, I know 2 or 3 cases like this...

Steve

MikeCardiff

iTrader: (2)

Its swings and roundabouts though - OK, people aren't buying new cars, so they keep hold of their old one, more old cars on the road need more repairs, repair parts, work for garages, MOT testing, servicing etc... - it will take a while for this to kick in, but when it does it will balance out some of the losses.

Also, all these car makers ( and other industries ) will lay people off, what happens in a few years when the economy has picked up, and new cars are selling well again ? - they'll have to employ more people to meet the demand of building the new cars.

The annoying thing though is that companies who have made huge profits in the past few years, when business was booming are now asking for handouts to keep going, or laying off staff and putting them on short time.

Where did all the money go ? To the Directors and shareholders - perhaps the companies should be asking them to reinvest some of their profits and bail out the company ?

As a sole trader running a business I save profit made in the good years to keep the business going when it gets quieter - I don't just spend all the profit from each year, then when things get tight have nothing to back it up and go bankrupt !

nixxon

Not many car manufacturers have been making any sort of profit, never mind huge ones, recently. If they can't do that in the consumer boom we've had in the past few years, what hope for the future? Let them fold. There's no point continuing to make stuff no-one wants. Sad, but there you go.

Leslie

Confiscate the slimy bankers' ill gotten fortunes and build an institution for them along the lines of the old fashioned debtor's prison.

Les