End of the road for file sharing?
25 August 2009, 10:18 AM
#1
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25 August 2009, 10:58 AM
#3
Its like dead-heading weeds.
They'll chop off one avenue to stop it, and someone somewhere will find another way to get round it.
Best way, as I've so often said is reduce the prices of films, music and software. Make the price more enticing, and people who want to abide buy the law won't be so dissuaded.
They'll chop off one avenue to stop it, and someone somewhere will find another way to get round it.
Best way, as I've so often said is reduce the prices of films, music and software. Make the price more enticing, and people who want to abide buy the law won't be so dissuaded.
Last edited by ALi-B; 25 August 2009 at 11:01 AM.
25 August 2009, 11:12 AM
#4
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25 August 2009, 11:24 AM
#5
Free vs convienience is my argument. Currently the prices of some software and top release films does not jusifty the convienience to many in my opinion.
£12 film DVD vs xx hours to download, not knowing if its actually what the description says is enough for people to take the risk. Or the risk of wasting £5 for the blank DVDs you bought from the lady in the street with a backback who "no speakee engleeesh".
£2 for a current top release film DVD (or £3 blueray
) would be enough to make at least 70% people that do download not to bother messing with the hassle of trying to download it.
Evident by the fact my mates all took up and paid for the discounted love-film offers, rented as many DVDs that took their fancy, and copied them so they could watch them at their own leisure, and then cancelled the subscription. Whilst still illegal, it showed that they were willing to pay something to get a legit DVD.
£12 film DVD vs xx hours to download, not knowing if its actually what the description says is enough for people to take the risk. Or the risk of wasting £5 for the blank DVDs you bought from the lady in the street with a backback who "no speakee engleeesh".
£2 for a current top release film DVD (or £3 blueray
) would be enough to make at least 70% people that do download not to bother messing with the hassle of trying to download it.Evident by the fact my mates all took up and paid for the discounted love-film offers, rented as many DVDs that took their fancy, and copied them so they could watch them at their own leisure, and then cancelled the subscription. Whilst still illegal, it showed that they were willing to pay something to get a legit DVD.
Last edited by ALi-B; 25 August 2009 at 11:29 AM.
25 August 2009, 11:29 AM
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+1 for Ali.
Its the price that is the problem. Issue is that the industry don't want to adjust prices and simply want to force people into paying for an over inflated product. I STILL cannot believe that regional encoded DVDs have not been banned, as that stifles competition.
Any DVD player should be able to play any disc, so I really do not see why people who live in Europe should be charge more for the same title than somewhere else in the world. Yes, a lot of people have found ways around this, but the whole concept of regional encoding should be highlighted as a way to rip people off and be banned.
Its the price that is the problem. Issue is that the industry don't want to adjust prices and simply want to force people into paying for an over inflated product. I STILL cannot believe that regional encoded DVDs have not been banned, as that stifles competition.
Any DVD player should be able to play any disc, so I really do not see why people who live in Europe should be charge more for the same title than somewhere else in the world. Yes, a lot of people have found ways around this, but the whole concept of regional encoding should be highlighted as a way to rip people off and be banned.
25 August 2009, 11:31 AM
#7
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Nothing to do with price I am afraid.
Most people wouldn't steal a DVD from a shop yet most of the Intenet generation think stealing material online is acceptable and actually think they are clever in doing so.
Funny world we live in these days.
Take SN for example, the moral high ground is taken in so many threads about the governent doing more about law and order and how criminals should be fully prosecuted and the legal system should be tougher etc. yet as soon as a thread comes along about films or music we have lots of people talking about watching copied DVDs or downloading stuff from Torrent sites like it's perfectly OK to do so.
Hypocrisy in the extreme.
Most people wouldn't steal a DVD from a shop yet most of the Intenet generation think stealing material online is acceptable and actually think they are clever in doing so.
Funny world we live in these days.
Take SN for example, the moral high ground is taken in so many threads about the governent doing more about law and order and how criminals should be fully prosecuted and the legal system should be tougher etc. yet as soon as a thread comes along about films or music we have lots of people talking about watching copied DVDs or downloading stuff from Torrent sites like it's perfectly OK to do so.
Hypocrisy in the extreme.
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25 August 2009, 11:38 AM
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Nothing to do with price I am afraid.
Most people wouldn't steal a DVD from a shop yet most of the Intenet generation think stealing material online is acceptable and actually think they are clever in doing so.
Funny world we live in these days.
Take SN for example, the moral high ground is taken in so many threads about the government doing more about law and order and how criminals should be fully prosecuted and the legal system should be tougher etc. yet as soon as a thread comes along about films or music we have lots of people talking about watching copied DVDs or downloading stuff from Torrent sites like it's perfectly OK to do so.
Hypocrisy in the extreme.
Most people wouldn't steal a DVD from a shop yet most of the Intenet generation think stealing material online is acceptable and actually think they are clever in doing so.
Funny world we live in these days.
Take SN for example, the moral high ground is taken in so many threads about the government doing more about law and order and how criminals should be fully prosecuted and the legal system should be tougher etc. yet as soon as a thread comes along about films or music we have lots of people talking about watching copied DVDs or downloading stuff from Torrent sites like it's perfectly OK to do so.
Hypocrisy in the extreme.
Since these people had paid for their TV license they had legally purchased the right to see the film. They are also allowed to record the film shown on TV had they remembered to do so. Yet, downloading the film using more modern technology is deemed to be a crime.
The legal framework needs to be updated. There are too many artificial limits being placed on technology, some of which is being imposed from an antiquated legal system, and some of which is anti-competitive behaviour being allowed when it should be outlawed.
As a prime example, why should places like BlockBusters have exclusive access to a film once it leaves the cinema. There is no option for anyone who has a high speed internet connection to go and watch these films when there should be.
If the film and music industry got their act together and provided a legal cheap reasonable method to obtain media via digital means I think we would all start to get along. Issue is that all firms try to limit what we can do. iTunes being one example. They are happy to sell me some music, but are unhappy for me to play it back on my computer using winamp, or similar. Too many companies are trying to artificially lock music or films to specific devices, and the majority of people just won't stand for that.
Last edited by Luminous; 25 August 2009 at 11:41 AM.
25 August 2009, 11:47 AM
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While I think there is some merit in your argument it is hardly the same as wanting criminals prosecuted. All films end up being on TV anyway, and I have known a lot of people download a film to watch just because they missed watching it on TV.
Since these people had paid for their TV license they had legally purchased the right to see the film. They are also allowed to record the film shown on TV had they remembered to do so. Yet, downloading the film using more modern technology is deemed to be a crime.
The legal framework needs to be updated. There are too many artificial limits being placed on technology, some of which is being imposed from an antiquated legal system, and some of which is anti-competitive behaviour being allowed when it should be outlawed.
As a prime example, why should places like BlockBusters have exclusive access to a film once it leaves the cinema. There is no option for anyone who has a high speed internet connection to go and watch these films when there should be.
If the film and music industry got their act together and provided a legal cheap reasonable method to option media via digital means I think we would all start to get along. Issue is that all firms try to limit what we can do. iTunes being one example. They are happy to sell me some music, but are unhappy for me to play it back on my computer using winamp, or similar. Too many companies are trying to artificially lock music or films to specific devices, and the majority of people just won't stand for that.
Since these people had paid for their TV license they had legally purchased the right to see the film. They are also allowed to record the film shown on TV had they remembered to do so. Yet, downloading the film using more modern technology is deemed to be a crime.
The legal framework needs to be updated. There are too many artificial limits being placed on technology, some of which is being imposed from an antiquated legal system, and some of which is anti-competitive behaviour being allowed when it should be outlawed.
As a prime example, why should places like BlockBusters have exclusive access to a film once it leaves the cinema. There is no option for anyone who has a high speed internet connection to go and watch these films when there should be.
If the film and music industry got their act together and provided a legal cheap reasonable method to option media via digital means I think we would all start to get along. Issue is that all firms try to limit what we can do. iTunes being one example. They are happy to sell me some music, but are unhappy for me to play it back on my computer using winamp, or similar. Too many companies are trying to artificially lock music or films to specific devices, and the majority of people just won't stand for that.
Sorry, but your argument is fine except for the fact that surely we should be lobbying the film companies etc. rather than going out and stealing the films off illegal Torrent sites etc.
Your comment about TV is fine, but let's be honest the majority of Torrent downloads are films currently on cinematic release or in some cases not even released yet. You know as well as I do that we are not talking about films shown and missed on TV for the most part.
Your argument is a bit like saying I can't speed except on an expensive track day hence I will just speed on the road and sod every one else.
Oh and as a producer of online content I am saying my argument is exactly the same as wanting criminals prosecuted. If some one steals my hard work then they are a criminal... not sure why people can't see that.
25 August 2009, 11:48 AM
#10
Take SN for example, the moral high ground is taken in so many threads about the governent doing more about law and order and how criminals should be fully prosecuted and the legal system should be tougher etc. yet as soon as a thread comes along about films or music we have lots of people talking about watching copied DVDs or downloading stuff from Torrent sites like it's perfectly OK to do so.
Hypocrisy in the extreme.
Hypocrisy in the extreme.
Extreme would be like comparing illegal downloading a dvd to raping a 7yr old girl.
Hypocrisy, yes, extreme, no.
Laws are all well and good, so long as the population as a whole supports it. Or, if its just to satisfy some EU qango or to satisfy the demands of capitallist megalomaniacs (spouts the right-winger
).< admits travelling at 45mph in a 40mph limit, but doesn't download/copy DVDs (and hasnt bought one for myself for 3 years either), and would condone the assassination of Rupert Murdoch
>
Last edited by ALi-B; 25 August 2009 at 11:51 AM.
25 August 2009, 11:53 AM
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25 August 2009, 11:57 AM
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What I mean is we have a generation of people who when faced with paying even less than £1 to download something legally or paying nothing and downloading it illegally will do the latter as they just don't see it as breaking the law.
25 August 2009, 11:58 AM
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No, but if I could get a device that would let me produce one for free, then, yes, I'd be up for that
25 August 2009, 12:16 PM
#14
If it's free then there is no price hence nothing to do with price.
What I mean is we have a generation of people who when faced with paying even less than £1 to download something legally or paying nothing and downloading it illegally will do the latter as they just don't see it as breaking the law.
What I mean is we have a generation of people who when faced with paying even less than £1 to download something legally or paying nothing and downloading it illegally will do the latter as they just don't see it as breaking the law.
Unless they are also stealing someone's internet connection too.
25 August 2009, 12:22 PM
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As usual, the whole thing is protrayed as ruining the music/video/software industry, but the reality simply doesn't reflect that.
Most downloads are for stuff that you would not have bought anyway.
If I want to see a film, I usually go and see it in the cinema, or rent it, or watch it on Sky (box office or wait until it's Movies), so I pay my way. Stuff I download is stuff I will only watch to see what it's like, if that makes sense. If I couldn't download, I would never have paid to see it, so the company hasn't really lost a sale.
It's like Photoshop. Loads of people have it, but at £500 a pop, only a few would ever have really bought it, or needed it. Adobe have lost very little on the fact that it has been pirated because all those copies probably do not translate into real sales.
The music industry seems to have cottoned on to the fact that people are willing to pay for cheaper music as iTunes and Amazon testify.
If the video industry took a similar model instead of using a hammer to crack a nut.........
I appreciate that there are people who will download everything and never pay, but they are a minority.
Geezer
Most downloads are for stuff that you would not have bought anyway.
If I want to see a film, I usually go and see it in the cinema, or rent it, or watch it on Sky (box office or wait until it's Movies), so I pay my way. Stuff I download is stuff I will only watch to see what it's like, if that makes sense. If I couldn't download, I would never have paid to see it, so the company hasn't really lost a sale.
It's like Photoshop. Loads of people have it, but at £500 a pop, only a few would ever have really bought it, or needed it. Adobe have lost very little on the fact that it has been pirated because all those copies probably do not translate into real sales.
The music industry seems to have cottoned on to the fact that people are willing to pay for cheaper music as iTunes and Amazon testify.
If the video industry took a similar model instead of using a hammer to crack a nut.........
I appreciate that there are people who will download everything and never pay, but they are a minority.
Geezer
25 August 2009, 12:25 PM
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Strange actually that we just had the same conversation in the office, and the agreement was that everyone would buy much more in the way of films and music if the prices were lower.
The arguement for CD's costing 3-4 quid for a single long ago was the cost of manufacturing the CD was most of the retail cost.
Price of manufacturing dropped, retail prices didnt (bit like oil v petrol prices)
Thats my bit anyway
The arguement for CD's costing 3-4 quid for a single long ago was the cost of manufacturing the CD was most of the retail cost.
Price of manufacturing dropped, retail prices didnt (bit like oil v petrol prices)
Thats my bit anyway
25 August 2009, 01:08 PM
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Just to make it clear, the proposal isn't to shut down the sites. It is to remove your internet access at home for a undefined period as punishment.
It doesn't matter how many sites are sharing, or how quickly they come and go, if you can't get on the net in the first place.
It doesn't matter how many sites are sharing, or how quickly they come and go, if you can't get on the net in the first place.
25 August 2009, 01:09 PM
#22
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i can see where your comming from f1, but, you can test drive a car before you buy. i do get films and games, but if i like them i tend to go out and buy them anyway. if i dont liek them i dont get them
25 August 2009, 01:17 PM
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Yes but an awful lot of people don't do that. They download them illegally and then brag about it, they have no intention of ever paying for any of them in any way.
25 August 2009, 01:30 PM
#25
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imo the film industry is missing a trick -- I think they should allow anyone to download the film (a low res version) that has advertising appearing occasionally along the bottom
so it would be funded by advertising
that way if you want to see it on the big screen you will go
but if you just want to see it on a 3inch by 5inch box on your computer then fine
it might spur the film industry to make decent films, coz not many of them are worthy of a trip to the cinema
oh and in the days of Blank Tapes the music industry levied a small fee against every one sold -- maybe a v small % should come off everybody's internet connection
one things is for sure the genie is out of the bottle -- if they completely eradicated file sharing, you would just have USB parties, bring along your usb we provide a central file server with several TB of storage so it can all be swapped -- offline, and you get to meet other people too and maybe get a ****-- wow what an idea
so it would be funded by advertising
that way if you want to see it on the big screen you will go
but if you just want to see it on a 3inch by 5inch box on your computer then fine
it might spur the film industry to make decent films, coz not many of them are worthy of a trip to the cinema
oh and in the days of Blank Tapes the music industry levied a small fee against every one sold -- maybe a v small % should come off everybody's internet connection
one things is for sure the genie is out of the bottle -- if they completely eradicated file sharing, you would just have USB parties, bring along your usb we provide a central file server with several TB of storage so it can all be swapped -- offline, and you get to meet other people too and maybe get a ****-- wow what an idea
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 25 August 2009 at 01:36 PM.
25 August 2009, 05:36 PM
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An obvious answer would be to have a blockbuster style site where anyone could high speed download a film for say £2 or as many as they like for a £10 a month fee onto their PC's, then either watch it on the PC or burn it to a DVD.
If the films were put on there as soon as they finished in the cinema, so all the latest stuff, plus back catalogue things, TV series etc... were available, I think a lot of people would use that.
Half the problem is that it is easier for someone to download a film, rather than have to drive to blockbusters, then drive back to return the film ( our nearest one is 8 miles away and is out of the way so isnt somewhere we would just happen to be driving past ! ) or have to order from lovefilm and wait for them to come and then post them back again.
If the films were put on there as soon as they finished in the cinema, so all the latest stuff, plus back catalogue things, TV series etc... were available, I think a lot of people would use that.
Half the problem is that it is easier for someone to download a film, rather than have to drive to blockbusters, then drive back to return the film ( our nearest one is 8 miles away and is out of the way so isnt somewhere we would just happen to be driving past ! ) or have to order from lovefilm and wait for them to come and then post them back again.
25 August 2009, 05:44 PM
#28
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I also think a lot of is is blown out of proportion by the film and music companies.
Music companies said blank tapes would kill the industry, then it was CD writers, and now the internet.
Simple fact is that sales aren't down because of illegal copying, most of it is because their main market ( and for films ) which is younger people have lots of other things to spend their money on now - whereas when I was a teenager most of my money went on LP's, now I would have to choose between a CD or topping up my mobile, buying a playstation game, new trainers, fashion clothes etc...
There are a lot more very expensive things they spend money on, so its pretty obvious they aren't going to buy as many CD's as people did 10 years ago, or go the cinema as often.
Music companies said blank tapes would kill the industry, then it was CD writers, and now the internet.
Simple fact is that sales aren't down because of illegal copying, most of it is because their main market ( and for films ) which is younger people have lots of other things to spend their money on now - whereas when I was a teenager most of my money went on LP's, now I would have to choose between a CD or topping up my mobile, buying a playstation game, new trainers, fashion clothes etc...
There are a lot more very expensive things they spend money on, so its pretty obvious they aren't going to buy as many CD's as people did 10 years ago, or go the cinema as often.
25 August 2009, 06:06 PM
#29
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Personally if you had a device that could take a picture of my car and then produce a copy I'd be perfectly happy for you to do it. In fact, I'd like you to make me a copy for when something breaks.
25 August 2009, 06:11 PM
#30
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sounds like theres a business opportunity there to me for an ISP who doesnt give a crap, some ISP who operate outside the UK and arent subject to UK law. Anyone got some business capital they wanna invest in my new business?
"FS-share" the ISP who doesnt give a crap what you download.
"FS-share" the ISP who doesnt give a crap what you download.